North & South Korea War

[bush_cheney2004]

So, you're saying if we launch cruise missiles into North Korea wouldn't attack South Korea? :rolleyes:

I stand by my original naive statement.

Right....because Canada doesn't have any "cruise missiles".

[bjre]

Actually, it was all UN forces....Killing Commies for Christ and Allah.

That is the bloody human rights your western nations talk about.

[Wilber]

US the evil killed them.

Who invaded who? Who was responsible for the nearly one million South Korean Casualties?

[bush_cheney2004]

That is the bloody human rights your western nations talk about.

China no mind when "bloody human rights" used to defeat Japanese kicking Chinese ass.

[Shwa]

So, you're saying if we launch cruise missiles into North Korea wouldn't attack South Korea? :rolleyes:

I stand by my original naive statement.

Oh they may, they may not. What I am saying that if we want to test that, then test it on the heads of their elites first. Not some clumsy carpet bombing campaign, but right up the arses of their leadership. Which, no doubt they have plenty of surveillance footage to go on. At least give it a try.

Now, would NK attack? If a good old regime change is in progress they might rethink the attack strategy and decide to maybe join the global party especially if China comes to the, er, "rescue."

However, I am not going to sit back and paint them as fierce little paranoid rats each armed to the teeth with some indestructable set of ethics. That would be naive too.

[bjre]

Who invaded who?

US invaded Korea before all the war start and now US is still there.

Who was responsible for the nearly one million South Korean Casualties?

Most killed by US with canons and bombers.

[M.Dancer]

US invaded Korea before all the war start and now US is still there.

Most killed by US with canons and bombers.

China Super Win 100

[Shwa]

Right....because Canada doesn't have any "cruise missiles".

LOL - are you kidding me? We'd borrow some of yours, let you fire them based on your intel, plans and procedures and then be there in case some peace needs a-keepin'.

[dre]

Oh they may, they may not. What I am saying that if we want to test that, then test it on the heads of their elites first. Not some clumsy carpet bombing campaign, but right up the arses of their leadership. Which, no doubt they have plenty of surveillance footage to go on. At least give it a try.

Now, would NK attack? If a good old regime change is in progress they might rethink the attack strategy and decide to maybe join the global party especially if China comes to the, er, "rescue."

However, I am not going to sit back and paint them as fierce little paranoid rats each armed to the teeth with some indestructable set of ethics. That would be naive too.

Oh they may, they may not. What I am saying that if we want to test that, then test it on the heads of their elites first.

Attacking the NK government without first trying to nutralize artillery positions along the DMZ would be act of idiocy so severe and extreme that hundreds of thousands of people would die for nothing. If things didnt go well more South Koreans would die in the first few hours than during the entire Korean war. Its just not gonna happen.

If SK wants to have this fight now, then they need to spend a couple of days moving whatever people and assets they can out of range then blitz the NK artillery battery with the hope they can wipe out most of it within a few hours. Theres no other options, and this blitz is exactly what the US and SK have trained for.

[dre]

LOL - are you kidding me? We'd borrow some of yours, let you fire them based on your intel, plans and procedures and then be there in case some peace needs a-keepin'.

Screw that. Canada should stay completely out of this. Not our problem, and we have nothing to gain. Also not sure if youve noticed but we cant even fund the day to day operation of our own government, never mind take on another nation building project that well be mired in for 20-50 years.

[Wilber]

US invaded Korea before all the war start and now US is still there.

Most killed by US with canons and bombers.

Not quite but why let the facts get in the way.

[nicky10013]

Oh they may, they may not. What I am saying that if we want to test that, then test it on the heads of their elites first. Not some clumsy carpet bombing campaign, but right up the arses of their leadership. Which, no doubt they have plenty of surveillance footage to go on. At least give it a try.

Now, would NK attack? If a good old regime change is in progress they might rethink the attack strategy and decide to maybe join the global party especially if China comes to the, er, "rescue."

Now, why in the name of god would China come to the rescue? Second, why would there be a regime change in progress? Just because a leader dies doesn't mean the governance structure changes. People just fill the void.

However, I am not going to sit back and paint them as fierce little paranoid rats each armed to the teeth with some indestructable set of ethics. That would be naive too.

They are paranoid, and the armed to the teeth. Whether they have industructible set of ethics is up for debate. However, considering North Korea is the last Stalinist regime on the planet, I wouldn't be surprised.

[Shwa]

Attacking the NK government without first trying to nutralize artillery positions along the DMZ would be act of idiocy so severe and extreme that hundreds of thousands of people would die for nothing. If things didnt go well more South Koreans would die in the first few hours than during the entire Korean war. Its just not gonna happen.

If SK wants to have this fight now, then they need to spend a couple of days moving whatever people and assets they can out of range then blitz the NK artillery battery with the hope they can wipe out most of it within a few hours. Theres no other options, and this blitz is exactly what the US and SK have trained for.

Now we're talkin'. Then, while the NK artillery is being dismantled, send some pinpoint strikes on their elites.

"I'll Kim Jong-il you!!"

[nicky10013]

Attacking the NK government without first trying to nutralize artillery positions along the DMZ would be act of idiocy so severe and extreme that hundreds of thousands of people would die for nothing. If things didnt go well more South Koreans would die in the first few hours than during the entire Korean war. Its just not gonna happen.

If SK wants to have this fight now, then they need to spend a couple of days moving whatever people and assets they can out of range then blitz the NK artillery battery with the hope they can wipe out most of it within a few hours. Theres no other options, and this blitz is exactly what the US and SK have trained for.

Bingo. But, why let reason spoil people's desire for retribution? Funny, people who call for blowing the North to kingdom come always seem to want to "liberate those poor people." It's a good sentiment, but they just don't realize that war would kill as many people as the regime. These decisions are a little more complicated than "They're doing something wrong, lets blow them up."

[Shwa]

Now, why in the name of god would China come to the rescue?

NK represents quite a large market. And workforce.

Second, why would there be a regime change in progress? Just because a leader dies doesn't mean the governance structure changes. People just fill the void.

Right. Like regime changes never happen. I didn't say "leader" I am talking "leadership." Besides, what would be the point of anyone filling in after Kim and Son? There wouldn't be any posh left for them to enjoy. Heck, if the cruise are on target, no beer to cry in either.

They are paranoid, and the armed to the teeth.

Meh, they all are.

Whether they have industructible set of ethics is up for debate. However, considering North Korea is the last Stalinist regime on the planet, I wouldn't be surprised.

Well now, that is the key isn't it? What are they willing to endure for their set of ethics? Heck, even the Italians said enough is enough and hung El Duce on a meathook.

Edited November 30, 2010 by Shwa

[dre]

Now we're talkin'. Then, while the NK artillery is being dismantled, send some pinpoint strikes on their elites.

"I'll Kim Jong-il you!!"

The problem with THAT... is that the people in charge dont LIKE pinpoint strikes on elites... because they ARE elites. The top brass made sure when they negotiated the rules of war that they would be comfy and safe, and that only grunts and regular civilians (who political leaders have contempt for anyways) would die.

[bush_cheney2004]

The problem with THAT... is that the people in charge dont LIKE pinpoint strikes on elites... because they ARE elites. The top brass made sure when they negotiated the rules of war that they would be comfy and safe, and that only grunts and regular civilians (who political leaders have contempt for anyways) would die.

So what? Do you think you are an "innocent" civilain?

[Shwa]

Screw that. Canada should stay completely out of this. Not our problem, and we have nothing to gain. Also not sure if youve noticed but we cant even fund the day to day operation of our own government, never mind take on another nation building project that well be mired in for 20-50 years.

Coattails buddy, coattails. We got enough spare cash for some coattails.

[Shwa]

The problem with THAT... is that the people in charge dont LIKE pinpoint strikes on elites... because they ARE elites. The top brass made sure when they negotiated the rules of war that they would be comfy and safe, and that only grunts and regular civilians (who political leaders have contempt for anyways) would die.

Hardly. Didn't you notice the target practice and systems shake down in Iraq? Gotta work them bugs out dontchya know. I think Kim and Son are ready for the real deal. Along with the rest of their party elites.

[dre]

Bingo. But, why let reason spoil people's desire for retribution? Funny, people who call for blowing the North to kingdom come always seem to want to "liberate those poor people." It's a good sentiment, but they just don't realize that war would kill as many people as the regime. These decisions are a little more complicated than "They're doing something wrong, lets blow them up."

What scares me is hilarious gerbil-faced optimism that the hawks spout before every war. "It will take six months and pay for itself!". "Well be greeted as liberators and all the women will rush forth to give the invading army blowjobs!". "It will cost a few million dollars". "It will be almost bloodless!".

The reality is, a "regime change" operation in NK will take 20 - 50 years of heavy spending, and hundreds of thousands of people will die. Anybody that tries to sugar coat this is just flat out full of shit. Were still in Afghanistan 10 years later, and theres no sign NATO will be out of THERE in the NEXT 10 years.

If Canada is gonna get involved in this the government should be honest, and admit that it will be an open ended obligation that most of us wont live to see the end of, and that it will be paid for by borrowed money at a time when we cant even afford to fund the day to day operations of our OWN government.

[bush_cheney2004]

...If Canada is gonna get involved in this the government should be honest, and admit that it will be an open ended obligation that most of us wont live to see the end of, and that it will be paid for by borrowed money at a time when we cant even afford to fund the day to day operations of our OWN government.

You keep repeating this lame ass excuse...that's what borrowed money is for! I mean really, do you think the principal barrier to joining a UN action for Korea would be....'we can't afford it'?

[nicky10013]

NK represents quite a large market. And workforce.

I've already explained that North Korea isn't a market. When people can't even afford food at government subsidised prices, how can they be viewed as a viable market? Workforce? How can they be viewed as a workforce when they're all underfed, and after a war, presumably, half dead?

Right. Like regime changes never happen. I didn't say "leader" I am talking "leadership." Besides, what would be the point of anyone filling in after Kim and Son? There wouldn't be any posh left for them to enjoy. Heck, if the cruise are on target, no beer to cry in either.

Regime changes take years to happen. People or workers from within the government just don't spontaneously rise up and oust the oppressors.

As for why people would want to take over, well, power abhors a vacuum. Like I said, there will always be money in North Korea, it just depends on who it is. If you do what you want to do, someone within the leadership will have the money to rebuild the palaces, buy new mercedes and yes, import the same amount of Hennesy cognac.

Meh, they all are.

Yet you just questioned that they weren't.

Well now, that is the key isn't it? What are they willing to endure for their set of ethics? Heck, even the Italians said enough is enough and hung El Duce on a meathook.

Well, it was Il Duce, and that's a pretty selective memory. What about Hitler? Tens of thousands in Berlin killed themselves because they didn't want to live in a world without National Socialism. What about the millions who fought for Stalin? Or Mao, or Ho Chi Minh?

[Shwa]

You keep repeating this lame ass excuse...that's what borrowed money is for! I mean really, do you think the principal barrier to joining a UN action for Korea would be....'we can't afford it'?

Plus... one could argue that this isn't like Afghanistan at all. If China is on board, this whole operation should take a few weeks, cost a few thousand and then we can get back to business. NK's have no place to escape to...

[nicky10013]

Plus... one could argue that this isn't like Afghanistan at all. If China is on board, this whole operation should take a few weeks, cost a few thousand and then we can get back to business. NK's have no place to escape to...

China won't be on board, though.

[dre]

You keep repeating this lame ass excuse...that's what borrowed money is for! I mean really, do you think the principal barrier to joining a UN action for Korea would be....'we can't afford it'?

That attitude is gonna land you in a world of hurt, and has already caused US currency to lose half its value over the last few years.

In the real world not being able to afford something IS a pretty damn good reason not to buy it.

I dont wanna pay one god damn dime to liberate north koreans.