bush_cheney2004 Posted April 5, 2014 Report Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) ...Also this is a moot people here in Canada as HBO is packaged with TMN and the CW Super Channels. So HBO's policy is irrelevant unless you go AC's Proxy route. HBO has purposely not adopted Netflix's direct-to-subscriber model because it currently lacks the infrastructure to do so and it would lose the near double ($16 U.S.) fee per subscriber that comes from bundled offerings via the cable company sales channel. I have no idea how HBO is marketed in Canada as a bundled service, but the economics would be nearly the same. In theory, cross border content licensing would be easier for HBO productions. Who/what are the equivalent Canadian based direct-to-subscriber or premium cable channel providers ? Edited April 5, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted April 5, 2014 Report Posted April 5, 2014 HBO is stupid and should be looking at delivery systems that already exist, not creating their own. That's if what you say is true: that they don't have the infrastructure to deliver content. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 5, 2014 Report Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) No...HBO is not "stupid"...it has a different business model that works well...for now. HBO will only be forced to change if "cord cutting" becomes a serious and sustained trend compared to the installed cable subscriber base that buys premium services. HBO is far more profitable than Netflix because of higher margins: http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/netflix-now-pulls-in-almost-as-much-revenue-as-hbo-but-hbo-is-far-more-profitable-1201087683/ "Stupid" like a Fox. Edited April 5, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
kimmy Posted April 6, 2014 Report Posted April 6, 2014 I don't mean to negate your point, but that's not really true. It's more of a "yes/and" situation than an "either/or". That is, the people who pirate the most are ALSO the ones who pay for the most content. The most prolific music pirates buy the most CDs, movie pirates buy the most DVD/Blurays, TV pirates have the biggest cable packages. Your conclusion is still right: give people a convenient and reasonably priced way to pay you for your content, and they absolutely will do it. Make it a pain in the butt, and they'll just download it. I agree with all of this. For me, the major driver behind all of the CD and BluRay purchases I've made in the past several years has been that I really enjoyed the material. In the case of music, it's often that I listened to it on Youtube or some other online streaming service, and wanted to buy the whole CD. There's an interview with the Game Of Thrones creators where they were asked what they thought about being the most pirated product in the history of the internet. They said that it's the best advertising possible. I walked through my local Indigo store yesterday, and there was a fiesta of Game of Thrones books and merchandise on display. The thing has become a phenomenon. And it wouldn't have reached this level without piracy. People pirate the show, get hooked on the show, get their friends hooked on it, and everybody winds up purchasing the BluRays when they come out, and the books, and a Lannister beer mug and a Stark t-shirt and probably a lot of people order HBO just for GoT as well. I almost bought a Khaleesi bobblehead yesterday. So cute! -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
bleeding heart Posted April 6, 2014 Report Posted April 6, 2014 (edited) I have heard about this as well...a fascinating phenomenon, and one which complicates the issues around piracy quite a bit. I doubt GoT has been the only big-name benefaciary, either. Edited April 6, 2014 by bleeding heart Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
eyeball Posted April 6, 2014 Report Posted April 6, 2014 I almost bought a Khaleesi bobblehead yesterday. So cute! -k How long will it be until you can pirate a blueprint of a Khaleesi bobblehead for your 3D printer and make one for free? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
kimmy Posted April 6, 2014 Report Posted April 6, 2014 (edited) How long will it be until you can pirate a blueprint of a Khaleesi bobblehead for your 3D printer and make one for free? As I understand it, operating a 3d printer isn't "free", or even cheap. And they're tricky and time-consuming. And you have a limited range of materials and colors that you can work with. And the stuff you make has an unfinished look, and would need to be painted afterward. So... that's an awful lot of hassle to go through for a $10 knick-knack. I have used a commercial 3d printing service called Shapeways. I was searching for a product that didn't actually exist, but somebody had drawn up a 3d model of what I was looking for and posted it on a website. I emailed the model to Shapeways, and a few weeks later had exactly what I wanted. It wasn't cheap, though. -k Edited April 6, 2014 by kimmy Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
eyeball Posted April 6, 2014 Report Posted April 6, 2014 operating a 3d printer isn't "free", or even cheap. That'll probably change and even in our lifetime. People might have the means to cut other cords if this article on the economic shift from markets to collaborative commons is anything to go by. A 3-D printer producing a canal house in the Netherlands. A legion of prosumers is producing and sharing 3D printed products at near-zero marginal cost on the collaborative commons. Over the past decade millions of consumers have become prosumers, producing and sharing music, videos, news, and knowledge at near-zero marginal cost and nearly for free, shrinking revenues in the music, newspaper and book-publishing industries. Interestingly enough content doesn't seem to have shrunk. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
kimmy Posted April 6, 2014 Report Posted April 6, 2014 It's another business model... printing shops like Shapeways have not just printing facilities, but also an online community of content creators. You can look at someone's designs, decide "hey that's cool I want one", and click the order button, put in your PayPal information, and in a few weeks you've got your product. The designer gets paid for their design, the printing shop gets paid for building it, and you get your bangles. Everybody wins, except for brick-and-mortar retailers. But again, the cost of a custom-designed, 3d-printed object is high compared to the cost of a mass-market object produced by conventional high-volume manufacturing techniques. To bring this back to the "cutting the cord" theme, it's once again about consumers wanting more choices, and technology arising to meet the demand. As things stand, if I wanted to order HBO Canada to watch Game of Thrones, Shaw Cable will bleed me for an extra $50 per month for 3 months. Because Shaw won't just let me order HBO Canada. Shaw requires me to upgrade my basic cable package, upgrade my equipment, and order the premium package of which HBO Canada is just one part. As much as I love the show, I won't pay $15 per episode for it, especially when most of that would be going to Shaw rather than the creators of the program. HBO will get their money from me. And hopefully sooner or later they will come up with alternative means of delivery that allows people to buy their programming without giving so much money to the middlemen. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
kimmy Posted April 6, 2014 Report Posted April 6, 2014 So with Google Chromecast now available in Canada... do I want it? How does Chromecast stack up against alternatives like the Roku box, Apple TV, or the media streaming capabilities in a PS3? Do these gadgets really do anything that I can't already do with my PS3? I hear there are "channels" for these streaming gadgets, but I am not really clear on what these "channels" offer. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Argus Posted April 6, 2014 Report Posted April 6, 2014 There's an interview with the Game Of Thrones creators where they were asked what they thought about being the most pirated product in the history of the internet. They said that it's the best advertising possible. I walked through my local Indigo store yesterday, and there was a fiesta of Game of Thrones books and merchandise on display. The thing has become a phenomenon. And it wouldn't have reached this level without piracy. People pirate the show, get hooked on the show, get their friends hooked on it, and everybody winds up purchasing the BluRays when they come out, and the books, and a Lannister beer mug and a Stark t-shirt and probably a lot of people order HBO just for GoT as well. That's great if you're a TV show with a huge merchandising organization behind you. If you're a guy who wrote a book, however, or created a beautiful picture, or wrote some nifty software, then someone pirating it isn't going to give you diddly. And when that pirate turns around and puts it on more P2P networks, that's going to cost you money, not make you anything. The only real pirate I knew had a multi page list of movies and he would deliver DVDs to you at work, complete with professional looking covers, of whatever movies were on his list (for a small fee). He certainly didn't get them off cable, nor pay for them in any way. He was just very active in downloading them from pirate sites. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 6, 2014 Report Posted April 6, 2014 So with Google Chromecast now available in Canada... do I want it? ....Do these gadgets really do anything that I can't already do with my PS3? I unplugged my PS3 to give the HDMI port to the Google Chromecast. Does that answer your question ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted April 6, 2014 Report Posted April 6, 2014 (edited) The VGA cable that turns my older TV into a bigger monitor seems to let me accomplish everything Chromecast does. I guess I would have one less cable to trip over but then I'd have yet another cable to throw away. Edited April 6, 2014 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
kimmy Posted April 7, 2014 Report Posted April 7, 2014 That's great if you're a TV show with a huge merchandising organization behind you. If you're a guy who wrote a book, however, or created a beautiful picture, or wrote some nifty software, then someone pirating it isn't going to give you diddly. And when that pirate turns around and puts it on more P2P networks, that's going to cost you money, not make you anything. Well, let's be realistic. If you're an independent creator (whether it be writing, visual art, computer games, designs for 3d printing, or whatever) piracy isn't your biggest problem. Finding an audience for your work is your biggest challenge. If you get to the point where people are looking to pirate your work, you're already on the brink of stardom. I think that independent creators are probably much better served by new-style distribution methods than they were before. How would an author get paid before? He has to write his work and then aggressively market it to possibly dozens of publishers, right? Unless he's already established, it's not easy to convince a publisher to take a chance on his book, because it's a big financial investment for them. But now we're in a world where an author can post his work to Amazon in a marketplace where people are able to search for exactly what they want. And there's no cash outlay for Amazon to host the book, and it's more appealing for a consumer to spend a buck or two on an e-book by an author they've never heard of than spend $12 or $20 on a hard copy of a book by somebody they've never heard of. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
cybercoma Posted April 7, 2014 Report Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) Another article recently on the growing number of Canadians ditching cable television and traditional phone services.http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cord-cutting-continues-as-canadians-ditch-tv-landlines-1.2601373?cmp=fbtl By the end of this year, TV subscriptions that will rely only on Netflix and other online services will reach 665,000 households, or 5.7 per cent . . . From 2011 to 2013, Convergence estimates that 458,000, or 3.9 per cent, of households relied solely on Netflix and other non-traditional TV services . . . The study estimated that Canadian TV service providers will lose a total of 32,000 subscribers overall in 2014. Change is coming happening now. Edited April 7, 2014 by cybercoma Quote
Mighty AC Posted April 8, 2014 Report Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) Soon the telcos will just have bandwidth left to peddle. There is ad and subscription money to be made by owning popular aggregators; which, is why current cable co's are trying to acquire the new distribution channels. Direct TV has recently tried to purchase Hulu which is currently a joint venture between Fox, Disney and NBC/Universal. The unholy alliance believes the future value is worth quite a bit more than the billion dollar offer. Edited April 8, 2014 by Mighty AC Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
cybercoma Posted April 8, 2014 Report Posted April 8, 2014 If Fox, Disney, and NBC/Universal are on board with Hulu, then that's going to be the streaming service of choice in the future. Once Disney signs on, the competition is over. Quote
Boges Posted April 8, 2014 Report Posted April 8, 2014 Is Hulu not mostly US Network broadcasting? That programming is meant to be offered for Free anyway. Quote
Boges Posted April 8, 2014 Report Posted April 8, 2014 Another article recently on the growing number of Canadians ditching cable television and traditional phone services. http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cord-cutting-continues-as-canadians-ditch-tv-landlines-1.2601373?cmp=fbtl Change is coming happening now. That article indicates that people who don't subscribe to any cable/satellite/fibe service is growing but still in the single digits. And keep in mind the big telecoms not only control the content but control the wires that get the internet to your house. Obviously as bandwidth gets cheaper people are going to look towards online options in an increasing number. But like with many things, you get what you pay for. You sort of have to work to get new programming. If you can afford it, a cable subscription with a DVR can't be beat. I was busy most of the weekend but when I checked my DVR I had all these shows essentially delivered to my TV I forgot I had set to record. It's a great option. If Cable was just traditional cable with ads and 30 or so channels then I'd understand the appeal for internet only options. But a DVR really makes home entertainment very easy. If you can afford it or choose to pay for it of coutse. Quote
Mighty AC Posted April 8, 2014 Report Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) If Fox, Disney, and NBC/Universal are on board with Hulu, then that's going to be the streaming service of choice in the future. Once Disney signs on, the competition is over.Apparently NBC/Universal has been a silent partner ever since Comcast bought a majority stake in the company from GE. However, since they have been involved there have been rumours of the possibility that the unholy alliance will turn Hulu into an "on demand" service for cable companies. That would be a shame. Edited April 8, 2014 by Mighty AC Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Mighty AC Posted April 8, 2014 Report Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) Obviously as bandwidth gets cheaper people are going to look towards online options in an increasing number. But like with many things, you get what you pay for. You sort of have to work to get new programming. If you can afford it, a cable subscription with a DVR can't be beat. I was busy most of the weekend but when I checked my DVR I had all these shows essentially delivered to my TV I forgot I had set to record. It's a great option. Every show I watch is on demand, whether I record it or not. I can also start any show in my living room and automatically resume it from another room or any web enabled device anywhere. I found that once I started watching media this way, cable could no longer measure up. I don't find cable rates to be too unreasonable, but saving over $600 per year is still a nice perk. You're right that there is some work involved though. I was able to test different devices and network setups to find out what worked best for me and my family, but tech scares a lot of people. This could be a great opportunity for IT companies like Nerds On Site. They could easily market cord cutting media setup packages. Many people would be happy to pay for a setup service, media devices (routers, Roku, Chromecast, Apple TV, etc.) or even join support plans when they simultaneously save $50 - $100 per by cancelling cable subscriptions. They could also offer VOIP phone packages and save people even more money. Edited April 8, 2014 by Mighty AC Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Boges Posted April 8, 2014 Report Posted April 8, 2014 Every show I watch is on demand, whether I record it or not. I can also start any show in my living room and automatically resume it from another room or any web enabled device anywhere. I found that once I started watching media this way, cable could no longer measure up. I don't find cable rates to be too unreasonable, but saving over $600 per year is still a nice perk. You're right that there is some work involved though. I was able to test different devices and network setups to find out what worked best for me and my family, but tech scares a lot of people. This could be a great opportunity for IT companies like Nerds On Site. They could easily market cord cutting media setup packages. Many people would be happy to pay for a setup service, media devices (routers, Roku, Chromecast, Apple TV, etc.) or even join support plans when they simultaneously save $50 - $100 per by cancelling cable subscriptions. They could also offer VOIP phone packages and save people even more money. One of the reason's you have to work so hard in Canada is because of Canadian Rights deals. For whatever reason, we don't have Hulu or access to many online options and Netflix isn't nearly as robust. A Chromcast supports both Hulu and Netflix. In the UK it supports the the BBC iPlayer. I would blame the CRTC for the most part. Quote
Mighty AC Posted April 8, 2014 Report Posted April 8, 2014 I agree. However, a few setup steps give people choice in what they view from around the world. Nerds on Site could easily manage all of the setup options necessary to meet the needs of their customers. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Boges Posted April 8, 2014 Report Posted April 8, 2014 I agree. However, a few setup steps give people choice in what they view from around the world. Nerds on Site could easily manage all of the setup options necessary to meet the needs of their customers. The thing is, that can't be a proper company as using a VPN/Proxy is technically illegal. The CRTC would shut a company like that down immediately. Quote
Mighty AC Posted April 8, 2014 Report Posted April 8, 2014 Using a VPN or proxy is legal, however, using it to use US based services probably isn't. When off the record, accountants often let clients know how to perform undocumented services or doctor invoices to maximize insurance benefits, etc. In a similar fashion, I expect the Nerds could install a VPN on client routers for "internet security" purposes and then mention the possibility that the same technology can be used to watch US/UK media content. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
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