Are Men Whores?

[Argus]

Stephen Fry got into a little trouble by making an offhand comment about women not liking sex as much as men. He said if they did they'd be acting as slutty as men, as evidenced by the promiscuity of male homosexuals. He said if women were as into sex as men they'd be in parks and public bathrooms like gay men searching for quick sex with anyone who'd have them.

The conersation this started begs several questions. Is it instinct or learned behaviour? Are men promiscuous by nature? Are women? If women are promiscuous by nature are they held back by the way they're raised and taught to never "give away" sex cheaply? Do women regard sex as a product they should ration in exchange for something, as Fry suggested?

Personally, I believe nature conspired against female sexuality. For men, just about any sex is good sex. Women don't have that luxury. While I have met exceptions, most women require a considerably higher degree of effort and expertise in order to be happy in sex. Men - not so much.

I also think society conspires against female sexuality, that girls are taught from a very early age - and that teaching is reinforced by their peers - that sex is not something to be just given away for nothing, that it's a valuable commodity and that they need to get something for it; love, money, commitment, a new ipod, whatever.

Men, on the other hand, are taught that anything goes. Young men are in avid pursuit of almost any kind of sex with almost any girl from the time they hit puberty, and the world of young men encourages that behaviour. Certainly boys face no similar pressure from their peers to not have cheap, frequent, meaningless sex. The idea that they would is frankly laughable.

Stephen Fry

Edited November 3, 2010 by Argus

[M.Dancer]

Woem are as horny as men, and often as promiscous. They just have a better ability to pick and choose and use more decorum than many men.

On the otherhand, most men won't go to a public bathroom to have sex with a deformed troll, just like most women won't seat themselves down beside a man on the overnight train to montreal in order to have a semi public snog.

[M.Dancer]

And for the record, whores are professionals, sluts are highly motivated amatuers...

[Black Dog]

Personally, I believe nature conspired against female sexuality. For men, just about any sex is good sex. Women don't have that luxury. While I have met exceptions, most women require a considerably higher degree of effort and expertise in order to be happy in sex. Men - not so much.

I think this view manages to sell short both male and female sexuality by implying that good sex=orgasms.

I also think society conspires against female sexuality, that girls are taught from a very early age - and that teaching is reinforced by their peers - that sex is not something to be just given away for nothing, that it's a valuable commodity and that they need to get something for it; love, money, commitment, a new ipod, whatever.

This is simply a corollary to the longstanding socio-cultural stigmatization and minimization of female sexuality. Women are taught first that sex is not for pleasure (and to pursue it on that basis would make them unclean sluts), so it follows that they channel their natural sexual desires to an end other than physical pleasure.

[Sir Bandelot]

The reason for the disparity is pretty obvious, women carry the burden of "biological responsibility". That's why they are more pressured and discouraged from unprotected sex by their families. It's hard to ignore when you get pregnant...

As for no one teaching their boys to be responsible, that's hogwash. Boys are generally taught by their families to respect women. Maybe not much by their peers. It depends on the family values... which nowadays is where most of the real social ills stem from. Acceptance of hedonism is on the rise in our culture, and along with that comes consequences.

[Michael Hardner]

...and it takes Morris just 19 minutes to "jump on" this thread....

[guyser]

And for the record, whores are professionals, sluts are highly motivated amatuers...

Wait, I thought whores would sleep with anybody, and sluts would sleep with anybody BUT me ?

Edited November 3, 2010 by guyser

[GostHacked]

Wait, I thought whores would sleep with anybody, and sluts would sleep with anybody BUT me ?

No, sluts sleep with anyone, bitches sleep with everyone but you.

[guyser]

No, sluts sleep with anyone, bitches sleep with everyone but you.

Duly noted.

[ToadBrother]

The reason for the disparity is pretty obvious, women carry the burden of "biological responsibility". That's why they are more pressured and discouraged from unprotected sex by their families. It's hard to ignore when you get pregnant...

As for no one teaching their boys to be responsible, that's hogwash. Boys are generally taught by their families to respect women. Maybe not much by their peers. It depends on the family values... which nowadays is where most of the real social ills stem from. Acceptance of hedonism is on the rise in our culture, and along with that comes consequences.

The chief consequence so far as I can tell is less shotgun weddings.

[wyly]

there is no doubt men are sluts...we rarely say no, we do not require payment for our services so we don't qualify as whores...

[Oleg Bach]

A whore is a person not capable of recieving or giving love - it has nothing to do with frequency. A whore only loves money.

[Bonam]

I also think society conspires against female sexuality, that girls are taught from a very early age - and that teaching is reinforced by their peers - that sex is not something to be just given away for nothing, that it's a valuable commodity and that they need to get something for it; love, money, commitment, a new ipod, whatever.

Umm the woman that has sex for money or a new ipod or "whatever" is the whore, not the one who has it for pleasure. In fact, physical and emotional pleasure is the valid reason to have sex. A society that teaches women that they gotta get an ipod in exchange for sex is a society raising a generation of prostitutes.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Bonam

[ToadBrother]

Umm the woman that has sex for money or a new ipod or "whatever" is the whore, not the one who has it for pleasure. In fact, physical and emotional pleasure is the valid reason to have sex. A society that teaches women that they gotta get an ipod in exchange for sex is a society raising a generation of prostitutes.

A society that teaches that sexual pleasure is wrong is a sick society.

[M.Dancer]

A society that teaches women that they gotta get an ipod in exchange for sex is a society raising a generation of prostitutes.

Are we talking iPod Shuffle or an iPod Touch?

[Bonam]

A society that teaches that sexual pleasure is wrong is a sick society.

Agreed.

Are we talking iPod Shuffle or an iPod Touch?

Hey could even be an iPhone or an iPad these days!

[GostHacked]

Umm the woman that has sex for money or a new ipod or "whatever" is the whore, not the one who has it for pleasure. In fact, physical and emotional pleasure is the valid reason to have sex. A society that teaches women that they gotta get an ipod in exchange for sex is a society raising a generation of prostitutes.

I work so I can buy shiny things. I am not in the sex biz, I am a different whore, but I am a whore none the less. I guess.

[Argus]

I work so I can buy shiny things. I am not in the sex biz, I am a different whore, but I am a whore none the less. I guess.

Come to that, we are all whores in that we sell our time to whoever will pay us the most money. That's why a guy who spent a decade in university to become a scientist works for a cigarette company trying to make their cigarettes safer or works for a pharmaceutical company trying to develop new acne medicine instead of living his dream of saving the world by defeating cancer or finding the secret to extended life.

Young men with good bodies routinely sell them as labourers, making use of their husky strength to do what women can't. On the other hand, women who sell their bodies are condemned by society, whether it's as hookers or strippers or just getting their pictures taken naked. They're considered immoral degenerates unworthy of more than our slight degree of tolerance. I mean, we don't throw them in prison but we certainly aren't going to invite them to dinner.

[Argus]

Woem are as horny as men, and often as promiscous. They just have a better ability to pick and choose and use more decorum than many men.

Often as promiscuous? No. The culture of women doesn't lead to that level of promiscuity. Women always have higher standards than men because they can afford them. Chris Rock has a part of a routine I will adapt for this purpose. A fat, unattractive woman can walk into a bar and get laid fairly easily as long as she low standards. But a guy who looks like Danny Devito can't do the same.

Guys are forever in pursuit of sex. Women are the pursued. That's our culture. Sure there are exceptions. There are ALWAYS exceptions to any general rule. But you don't have any male-female equivalent of the gay bathhouse, for example.

On the otherhand, most men won't go to a public bathroom to have sex with a deformed troll

But men will go to public bathrooms to sit by a hole in a stall waiting for another man to stick his unit through it. I defy you to find women slutty enough to make THAT a cultural phenomenon among the heterosexual community.

[Argus]

I think this view manages to sell short both male and female sexuality by implying that good sex=orgasms.

Psychologically speaking, we are creatures who operate, just like rats in a maze, according to various stimuli. If you have sex and you have a great orgasm, you'll want to have it again. If you have sex and you don't, you get less stimulation, less pleasure, and are less likely to want to do it again.

This is simply a corollary to the longstanding socio-cultural stigmatization and minimization of female sexuality. Women are taught first that sex is not for pleasure (and to pursue it on that basis would make them unclean sluts), so it follows that they channel their natural sexual desires to an end other than physical pleasure.

But why and how are we still doing this? Isn't this an age in which young women are valued primarily for their sexual desirability? Isn't this the age of sexual hedonism for women? Aren't twelve year old girls proudly showing off their thongs? Isn't our culture filled with the glorification of female bodies and sexuality, even lesbian sexuality (albeit phony het versions)?

Edited November 6, 2010 by Argus

[Argus]

As for no one teaching their boys to be responsible, that's hogwash. Boys are generally taught by their families to respect women. Maybe not much by their peers. It depends on the family values...

Our culture is awash in messages of sexuality for both young men and young women. Young men are encouraged by almost every aspect of our culture to seek out girls and have as much sex as they possibly can. Certainly that is the culture of boys and men. Young women are encouraged to be as sexually desirable as they possibly can in their behaviour and appearance, yet simultaneously they are discouraged from actually engaging in sex except with a "boyfriend", ie, someone who they love and who respects them.

A young guy who joins his pals and boasts that he had sex with three girls the other night would be high-fived and eagerly be asked to repeat the story as often as possible. He'd be a hero. A young woman who greets her peers in a similar fashion would be looked at with horror, would be insulted and shunned.

Why? And it isn't just because of pregnancy issues, not in a day of birth control and easy abortion access. Besides, some shows on TV seem to be actually glorifying the idea of being an unwed teenage mother.

[kimmy]

Young men with good bodies routinely sell them as labourers, making use of their husky strength to do what women can't.

I sell my body as a labourer, making use of my husky strength to do what other women can't.

On the other hand, women who sell their bodies are condemned by society, whether it's as hookers or strippers or just getting their pictures taken naked.

I have a hunch that men who work as escorts or strippers or nude models are likewise not held in particularly high esteem by society at large. As for pictures... I don't really have a good sense of how widely men circulate pictures of their privates. I've never had a friend come up to me and say "hey, my boyfriend just sexted me a picture of his dong. Wanna see?" I know that some guys do send pictures like that around, or show off their goodies while they're chatting on their webcams, or whatever.

They're considered immoral degenerates unworthy of more than our slight degree of tolerance. I mean, we don't throw them in prison but we certainly aren't going to invite them to dinner.

I bet lots of guys would invite a stripper to dinner!

I do think you're underestimating the sex drive of women, Argus. There might not be the "gay bathhouse" scenario where women just show up and have sex. (well, there's clubs like that, but that's beside the point.) But women spend a lot of time thinking about sex, and as you've noted, it's not difficult for women to find a sexual partner if they're in the mood. It's just done with a little caution, for a variety of reasons.

A fat, unattractive woman can walk into a bar and get laid fairly easily as long as she low standards. But a guy who looks like Danny Devito can't do the same.

Sure he can. There are countless examples of physically unattractive men who've ended up with beautiful women. As long as he's got money, he's attractive to somebody.

From a "natural selection" point of view, male promiscuity makes a certain amount of sense. The more seed he can spread, the better his chances of staying in the gene pool.

Female promiscuity, on the other hand, doesn't. The rate at which she can pass along her genes is capped, regardless of how much sex she has or how many partners she has. For her, the best chance of staying in the gene pool comes from improving the survival odds of the offspring she has. Her best chance of doing that is probably to identify a mate who is a good protector/provider, and gain his loyalty.

I'm sure the biological basis of sexual dynamics is a complex and controversial subject, of course. It can't be as simple as just that... but I suspect there's a hardwired drive to find a good provider, and that the unattractive little nerd with a 6 figure income probably fits the bill.

-k

[Moonlight Graham]

Men are sluts. They are much less picky than women. Isn't this a given?

A man will jump anything with tits under 200 lbs. Sometimes including farm animals.

Seriously, this is a bit of a ridiculous threads. We are sluts!!! If women were as slutty as men nothing in this world would get done. People would just be having sex everywhere at random throughout the day.

[dre]

Stephen Fry got into a little trouble by making an offhand comment about women not liking sex as much as men. He said if they did they'd be acting as slutty as men, as evidenced by the promiscuity of male homosexuals. He said if women were as into sex as men they'd be in parks and public bathrooms like gay men searching for quick sex with anyone who'd have them.

The conersation this started begs several questions. Is it instinct or learned behaviour? Are men promiscuous by nature? Are women? If women are promiscuous by nature are they held back by the way they're raised and taught to never "give away" sex cheaply? Do women regard sex as a product they should ration in exchange for something, as Fry suggested?

Personally, I believe nature conspired against female sexuality. For men, just about any sex is good sex. Women don't have that luxury. While I have met exceptions, most women require a considerably higher degree of effort and expertise in order to be happy in sex. Men - not so much.

I also think society conspires against female sexuality, that girls are taught from a very early age - and that teaching is reinforced by their peers - that sex is not something to be just given away for nothing, that it's a valuable commodity and that they need to get something for it; love, money, commitment, a new ipod, whatever.

Men, on the other hand, are taught that anything goes. Young men are in avid pursuit of almost any kind of sex with almost any girl from the time they hit puberty, and the world of young men encourages that behaviour. Certainly boys face no similar pressure from their peers to not have cheap, frequent, meaningless sex. The idea that they would is frankly laughable.

Stephen Fry

Maybe you and Mr Fry have the perception women dont like sex because youre not very good at it?

[dre]

Men are sluts. They are much less picky than women. Isn't this a given?

A man will jump anything with tits under 200 lbs. Sometimes including farm animals.

Seriously, this is a bit of a ridiculous threads. We are sluts!!! If women were as slutty as men nothing in this world would get done. People would just be having sex everywhere at random throughout the day.

Seriously, this is a bit of a ridiculous threads. We are sluts!!! If women were as slutty as men nothing in this world would get done. People would just be having sex everywhere at random throughout the day.

No kidding. If I was a women Id just masterbate and check out my tits all day. Probably wouldnt even get out of bed.