Cab driver stabbed for calling himself Muslim

[Machjo]

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/Myreligion+behind+attack+Muslim+driver+says/3449223/story.html

Though there is no evidence that the protests emboldened him, it seems speculation about has been rampant. The mayor of NYC was asked about a possible connection last night, and refused to speculate. The cab driver himself was asked about it and also refused to speculate but did mention the mosque was never mentioned.

It think it is reasonable though to ask whether the protests have gone to far and may in fact have emboldened this man and may embolden others in future. In fact in a previous post in this forum I had already mentioned the possibility that this protest could potentially embolden Islamophobes, and it seems my concern was justified.

Considering that the Imam had first consulted with City Council, the local Jewish community, and other religious communities, got the blessings of all of them even though he had no obligation to, and even got the blessings of Fox News initially for cryin' out loud, I think it's safe to conclude that he had taken all measures necessary to ensure public support. Little did he know that he'd have to contend with Jihad Watch and that Fox News would turn on him as soon as the right spin were presented. It would seem he'd gone out of his way before building the centre to be sure of wide-ranging public support. How else could he possibly have predicted this opposition.

As for the opposition, though it may have a legal right to protest, should it not have the maturity to recognize that its protests, especially when funded by groups such as Jihad Watch, are likely to embolden some to launch such attacks?

[Moonlight Graham]

As for the opposition, though it may have a legal right to protest, should it not have the maturity to recognize that its protests, especially when funded by groups such as Jihad Watch, are likely to embolden some to launch such attacks?

There is no excuse for the attack. People have the right to protest what they feel is wrong. This "embolden" stuff is garbage.

[bush_cheney2004]

....As for the opposition, though it may have a legal right to protest, should it not have the maturity to recognize that its protests, especially when funded by groups such as Jihad Watch, are likely to embolden some to launch such attacks?

No...just as there is a right to open the mosque, the right to protest does not have to be muzzled out of such concerns. If somebody blows up the mosque, would you ask the same sort of prior restraint question?

[Shady]

There is no excuse for the attack. People have the right to protest what they feel is wrong. This "embolden" stuff is garbage.

I totally agree. It makes me think of people who blame things on music or movies or games too.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Shady

[Guest American Woman]

In fact in a previous post in this forum I had already mentioned the possibility that this protest could potentially embolden Islamophobes, and it seems my concern was justified.

Some of the things imam Rauf are saying could embolden anti-American sentiment, also. It seems as if his telling the Middle East that he hopes to "Americanize Islam" isn't being seen as great news by all.

As for the opposition, though it may have a legal right to protest, should it not have the maturity to recognize that its protests, especially when funded by groups such as Jihad Watch, are likely to embolden some to launch such attacks?

I'm curious. Why do you think people one side of this issue "should have the maturity" not to exercise their rights while you don't think those on the other side, in light of the bad feelings the mosque is creating, "should have the maturity" to build elsewhere?

[bloodyminded]

One can't rightfully blame protesters for this. The fault is of course the perpetrator's; but if the stabbing was the result of some larger anti-Muslim sentiment, then this precipitating factor should be considered as important. It's a much larger issue than the community centre debates.

[Guest American Woman]

One stabbing in a city of 8 million and people are more than willing to question whether or not this is a sign of some kind of "precipitating factor/"result of the protests or a sign of increasing anti-Muslim sentiment, yet when anyone dared to tie in the Fort Hood shooting with anti-western feelings, they were told it had nothing to do with Islam, it was a single act, etc., and the fact that he was a Muslim had nothing to do with anything. They guy simply snapped.

Once again, such different reactions depending on who is responsible for the act of violence.

Having said that:

Michael Enright, who had spent time embedded with the U.S. military in Afghanistan as part of a filmmaking project, yelled the taxi had arrived at a "checkpoint" and it was his "duty" to "put ... down" the driver, Ahmed Sharif recalled.

Sounds as if the guy had a screw loose, and that's the precipitating factor behind the stabbing. It hardly sounds as ominous as growing anti-Muslim sentiment as a result of the protests. Again, this is one stabbing in a city of 8 million, and it's not as if hate crimes never occurred before. On both side. Worldwide.

Edited August 27, 2010 by American Woman

[bloodyminded]

One stabbing in a city of 8 million and people are more than willing to question whether or not this is a sign of some kind of "precipitating factor/"result of the protests or a sign of increasing anti-Muslim sentiment, yet when anyone dared to tie in the Fort Hood shooting with anti-western feelings, they were told it had nothing to do with Islam, it was a single act, etc., and the fact that he was a Muslim had nothing to do with anything. They guy simply snapped.

Once again, such different reactions depending on who is responsible for the act of violence.

Having said that:

Michael Enright, who had spent time embedded with the U.S. military in Afghanistan as part of a filmmaking project, yelled the taxi had arrived at a "checkpoint" and it was his "duty" to "put ... down" the driver, Ahmed Sharif recalled.

Sounds as if the guy had a screw loose, and that's the precipitating factor behind the stabbing. It hardly sounds as ominous as growing anti-Muslim sentiment as a result of the protests. Again, this is one stabbing in a city of 8 million, and it's not as if hate crimes never occurred before. On both side. Worldwide.

I didn't make any declarative statement on this incident; I only raised the possibility that it could be related in some way to growing anti-Muslim sentiment.

I also never said that the Fort Hood shootings had nothing to do with anti-Western sentiment; I think it clearly does.

I've never stated otherwise.

You should pick the targets of your ire; everyone who disagrees with you is not necessarily in agreement with one another on every point. In other words, don't view those weho disagree with you as a simplsitic, discrete entity.

I'm no more responsible for what they say than you are. Not a bit more.

I'd just like to have my own opinions criticized, rather than those I don't hold.

The same thing you've been saying, over and over...it goes both ways.

Edited August 27, 2010 by bloodyminded

[Guest American Woman]

I didn't make any declarative statement on this incident; I only raised the possibility that it could be related in some way to growing anti-Muslim sentiment.

I also never said that the Fort Hood shootings had nothing to do with anti-Western sentiment; I think it clearly does.

I've never stated otherwise.

You should pick the targets of your ire; everyone who disagrees with you is not necessarily in agreement with one another on every point. In other words, don't view those weho disagree with you as a simplsitic, discrete entity.

I'm no more responsible for what they say than you are. Not a bit more.

I'd just like to have my own opinions criticized, rather than those I don't hold.

The same thing you've been saying, over and over...it goes both ways.

What makes you think my post was directed at you? I didn't quote your post. I was responding to the thread in general, the comments in general, the Fort Hood thread in general, and the media treatment of this incident and the Fort Hood shooting in general. Furthermore, stating my observations is just that; it's not "ire" any more than your posts are "ire."

So I never accused you of anything, much less opinions that you don't hold.

Having said that, looks as if I may be right (and this isn't directed at you, either):

Michael Enright, the man suspected of stabbing a cabdriver in New York after learning he was a Muslim, has been moved from jail to a psychiatric ward, a city official said.

New York City Corrections Department spokesman Stephen Morello said Enright, a 21-year-old film student at the School of Visual Arts, was transferred Thursday night from Rikers Island jail to Bellevue Hospital in Manhattan.

The decision was made after medical staff at Rikers jail examined Enright and determined he should be sent to the Bellevue ward, a locked unit with cells, corrections staff and medical staff. link

As for his charges:

Enright is facing charges of second-degree attempted murder as a hate crime, second-degree assault as a hate crime, second-degree aggravated harassment as a hate crime, and fourth-degree criminal possession of a weapon, police said.

After reading that, I was curious as to what the Fort Hood shooter was charged with:

Maj. Nidal Hasan, has been charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted premeditated murder. link

So one crime is seen as "hate" motivated while the other is not.

Edited August 27, 2010 by American Woman

[betsy]

Leaders of Muslim Congress call on all Imams to publicly denounce jihad and Hamas. They say not to do so means that the Imams approve. Further, the Muslim Congress leaders say that this is not the time to be politically correct. They express concern that the backlash from growing anti-Muslim sentiments will hurt all Muslims.

If there is indeed Islamophobia that is starting to sweep the USA....I am not surprised. It is not the protests that enboldens radicals and extremisms. The irony of it all, it is actually the liberals who unwittingly created this kind of climate.

[bloodyminded]

What makes you think my post was directed at you? I didn't quote your post. I was responding to the thread in general, the comments in general, the Fort Hood thread in general, and the media treatment of this incident and the Fort Hood shooting in general. Furthermore, stating my observations is just that; it's not "ire" any more than your posts are "ire."

So I never accused you of anything, much less opinions that you don't hold.

So it's a coincidence that you put "precipitating factor" in quotation marks, directly after the thread in which I used the term, when no one else in this thread has used it?

[Bonam]

The irony of it all, it is actually the liberals who unwittingly created this kind of climate.

Of course. Any time that an irrational ideology is rammed down the throat of an unwilling populace, as the multiculturalist aspects of modern liberalism have been, there is going to be blowback. I think the US reaction (talking in general, not referring to this stabbing) is probably the healthiest of the lot, realizing the issue and beginning to address it before it takes on epic proportions. That's in comparison to Europe, which ignores issues and then explodes in firestorms of violence when they can no longer possibly be ignored.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Bonam

[bloodyminded]

Leaders of Muslim Congress call on all Imams to publicly denounce jihad and Hamas. They say not to do so means that the Imams approve. Further, the Muslim Congress leaders say that this is not the time to be politically correct. They express concern that the backlash from growing anti-Muslim sentiments will hurt all Muslims.

If there is indeed Islamophobia that is starting to sweep the USA....I am not surprised. It is not the protests that enboldens radicals and extremisms. The irony of it all, it is actually the liberals who unwittingly created this kind of climate.

Well of course it's got to be "the liberals" fault, Betsy. What else is new?

Conservatives aren't responsible for any contemporary problems.

[bloodyminded]

Of course. Any time that an irrational ideology is rammed down the throat of an unwilling populace, as the multiculturalist aspects of modern liberalism have been, there is going to be blowback. I think the US reaction (talking in general, not referring to this stabbing) is probably the healthiest of the lot, realizing the issue and beginning to address it before it takes on epic proportions. That's in comparison to Europe, which ignores issues and then explodes in firestorms of violence when they can no longer possibly be ignored.

It's interesting you'd use the term "blowback," which aptly helps explain how Western foreign policy has been totally complicit in making the international terrorism problem come to pass.

Or, instead, you can blame "multiculturalism."

[Bonam]

It's interesting you'd use the term "blowback," which aptly helps explain how Western foreign policy has been totally complicit in making the international terrorism problem come to pass.

Sure, some of it can be attributed to blowback. I do not and never have made the claim that the West is some perfect paragon of virtue. But what we are, is better than the alternative. Better than the alternative of Nazism in WWII, better than the alternative of communism during the Cold War, and certainly better than the alternative of Islamism now (though of course the threat of Islamism is so far lesser than the other two were).

Just because the West may have had a part in generating some of the resentment that now fuels some of the recruitment successes of terrorist groups, does not mean that we should stop acting in our own best interests, to protect ourselves, to ensure the prosperity of our societies, and to eradicate serious threats to our well-being where they do in fact exist.

Or, instead, you can blame "multiculturalism."

Multiculturalism is definitely a driving factor in why some Westerners may be hostile to some immigrants. Do you disagree? On this very forum, you can see people who are against multiculturalism and against the levels and types of immigration that we are presently experiencing. Clearly some Westerners hold this viewpoint. By importing millions of Muslims into the West, many people have been exposed to Islam to far beyond their comfort level. Some may embrace these new-found neighbours, others may tolerate them, others may fear or dislike them. Regardless, many would argue that Western culture and values cannot be sustained in the face of the rate of immigration that we are presently experiencing from countries with radically different cultures, which often stand in direct opposition to Western values on key issues such as secularism, gender equality, and freedom of speech. Multiculturalism is a government policy that rams all this down people's throats whether they like it or not, rather than forcing newcomers to assimilate, and so generates resentment and even hostility.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Bonam

[Guest American Woman]

So it's a coincidence that you put "precipitating factor" in quotation marks, directly after the thread in which I used the term, when no one else in this thread has used it?

I hadn't exactly memorized the thread before I made my post, so I didn't realize no one else had said it, and I thought "precipitating factors" summed up the crux of the issue well. So I used it. Simple as that.

If my post had been directed to you, I would have quoted you. My post happened to follow yours because no one else had posted in between your post and mine. I've already explained that I wasn't directing my post to you, so if you can't accept that, so be it.

[bloodyminded]

Sure, some of it can be attributed to blowback. I do not and never have made the claim that the West is some perfect paragon of virtue. But what we are, is better than the alternative. Better than the alternative of Nazism in WWII, better than the alternative of communism during the Cold War, and certainly better than the alternative of Islamism now (though of course the threat of Islamism is so far lesser than the other two were).

Just because the West may have had a part in generating some of the resentment that now fuels some of the recruitment successes of terrorist groups, does not mean that we should stop acting in our own best interests, to protect ourselves, to ensure the prosperity of our societies, and to eradicate serious threats to our well-being where they do in fact exist.

I agree. And I see little evidence that foreign policy is geared towards eradicating threats.

further, often our foreign policy is intrinsically geared towards threats, and harm, towards others without good cause.

Edited August 28, 2010 by bloodyminded

[Bonam]

further, often our foreign policy is intrinsically geared towards threats, and harm, towards others without good cause.

Oh? So where exactly in the world are our soldiers killing people "without good cause"? I'm talking today, not Suharto.

[kimmy]

As for the opposition, though it may have a legal right to protest, should it not have the maturity to recognize that its protests, especially when funded by groups such as Jihad Watch, are likely to embolden some to launch such attacks?

Claiming he was "emboldened" to this by the protests is as provable as claiming it this attack was an angry reaction to the mosque project itself. Complete, unadulterated speculation.

As for the rest, AW has it nailed.

-k

[bloodyminded]

Oh? So where exactly in the world are our soldiers killing people "without good cause"? I'm talking today, not Suharto.

How would we know? We didn't know we were terrorist supporters of the Indonesian Generals, either.

Way back in the ancient, trivial history of the 1990's.

But if we've changed track--if we, and the US, have performed a 180 degree turnaround on foreign policy--do you not find it odd that no one has mentioned it?

[Machjo]

No...just as there is a right to open the mosque, the right to protest does not have to be muzzled out of such concerns. If somebody blows up the mosque, would you ask the same sort of prior restraint question?

It would be same thing, just more extreme.

[bush_cheney2004]

....But if we've changed track--if we, and the US, have performed a 180 degree turnaround on foreign policy--do you not find it odd that no one has mentioned it?

Do you mean it's not significantly unmentioned without the US "turnaround" and lack of US media coverage?

[bush_cheney2004]

It would be same thing, just more extreme.

So stabbing cab drivers is not equally "extreme"?

Edited August 28, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Machjo]

Some of the things imam Rauf are saying could embolden anti-American sentiment, also. It seems as if his telling the Middle East that he hopes to "Americanize Islam" isn't being seen as great news by all.

I thought many Americans always hoped to see Islam 'Americanized'. Aren't people supposed to integrate into their communities?

I'm curious. Why do you think people one side of this issue "should have the maturity" not to exercise their rights while you don't think those on the other side, in light of the bad feelings the mosque is creating, "should have the maturity" to build elsewhere?

I will agree that people standing in the streets of NYC promoting anti-Americanism can certainly contribute to anti-Muslim sentiment. And more people, Muslim or otherwise, should call them out on it.

As for the mosque controversy, it's pretty telling when even Fox News was supportive, or at worst neutral towards the mosque until Pamella Geller came onto the scene with Jihad Watch funding. Only after she turned it from reaching out to the community to Muslim conquest and associating all Muslims with 9/11 did Fox News make a 180 degree turn. So clearly if the protesters have been able to turn Fox News around, they've proven themselves capable of turning support or neutrality into opposition. Seeing that there is already proof of that, it is reasonable to question whether others may have been similarly influenced, and to what degree.

[bush_cheney2004]

I thought many Americans always hoped to see Islam 'Americanized'. Aren't people supposed to integrate into their communities?

Islam has been Americanized...years before you were born.