betsy Posted September 12, 2010 Report Share Posted September 12, 2010 (edited) Why did I get cancer? Why do innocent babies die? Why is there so much suffering? Why? Why? Why?....all the usual why-nings. God is...G O D. HE doesn't have to answer or explain HIMSELF to mere mortals that HE created! To demand an explanation from God is to show that one doesn't truly comprehend the meaning/concept of a God. HE said: "Your ways are not MY ways. Your thoughts are not MY thoughts." There are numerous reasons why people do not believe....or turn away from their belief in God (apostasy). The most obvious reason so far that I read in this forum is that....God does not conform to their idea of what a god should be like. They refuse to believe because God did not do....or did not behave in such a way that they think God should. And God demands so much faith....that makes it almost impossible to enjoy all these earthly and wordly pleasures. That makes self-indulgence takes a good backseat and becomes almost nil if one puts God ahead of everything else. To humbly accept that we were created for HIS pleasure. And with all humility....accept that the only real purpose in life is to love, honor and obey HIM. Of course, I speak as a believer. The following is an excerpt taken from a post in the other thread, "Rejoice on this day!" In June 1998 the world’s leading experts in the field of cosmology and astronomy, including such giants as Stephen Hawking, attended a conference of scientists, theologians, and others at the University of California at Berkeley. The subject of the conference was the conflict and convergence between science and religion. Two questions attracted considerable attention among participants: 1. Is there enough evidence to warrant belief in God? 2. Is there something to the claims of anthropic cosmological principles that warrants an in-depth study? The answer to both questions was yes. Edited September 12, 2010 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 12, 2010 Report Share Posted September 12, 2010 HE doesn't have to answer or explain HIMSELF to mere mortals that HE created! To demand an explanation from God is to show that one doesn't truly comprehend the meaning/concept of a God. HE said: "Your ways are not MY ways. Your thoughts are not MY thoughts." ...etc So how is Mrs God these days? Does she do the dishes? Mop the floors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted September 12, 2010 Report Share Posted September 12, 2010 And on a lighter note, what does science say these days about..... Wine? Fish? Berries? Olive Oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 12, 2010 Report Share Posted September 12, 2010 so two million men women children and babies get crushed in Haiti even though this all powerful god with of a twitch of his eyebrow could prevent it...your god sounds like a psychopath, or more likely there is no god... The thinking behind this is often that God created the universe, and just lets it unfold as it should. It's up to humans to make the best of their world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 The thinking behind this is often that God created the universe, and just lets it unfold as it should. It's up to humans to make the best of their world. that's a cop outthis is the omnipotent god that dishes out miracles left and right on a whim but now you say he can't be bothered...first it cares for us then it doesn't give a fig?...such a fantastic deity that loves us so much it let's innocents perish because it can't be bothered to twitch it's big toe, wow that's some god you've there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 that's a cop out this is the omnipotent god that dishes out miracles left and right on a whim but now you say he can't be bothered...first it cares for us then it doesn't give a fig?...such a fantastic deity that loves us so much it let's innocents perish because it can't be bothered to twitch it's big toe, wow that's some god you've there... Don't shoot the messenger... these are greater philosophers than you and I who came up with this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 Don't shoot the messenger... these are greater philosophers than you and I who came up with this... Who had no concept of what a quasar is...or a light year...or a Cepheid variable...or a lenticular galaxy...etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 Who had no concept of what a quasar is...or a light year...or a Cepheid variable...or a lenticular galaxy...etc. Or a Wookie.... not that you need to know what those things are to discuss philosophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 Or a Wookie.... not that you need to know what those things are to discuss philosophy. As mentioned in one of these God threads, new stars and planets are being formed right now. Religious types should be aware that their dear deity has chosen "Start New Game" from the menu choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 As mentioned in one of these God threads, new stars and planets are being formed right now. Religious types should be aware that their dear deity has chosen "Start New Game" from the menu choices. And what do you think the effect of that knowledge should be on religious philosophy ? I can't think how it would change anything, myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) And what do you think the effect of that knowledge should be on religious philosophy ? I can't think how it would change anything, myself. I doubt religious types consider new star and planet formation, not only in our own galaxy but billions upon billions of others. Too much information! Edited September 13, 2010 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) Don't shoot the messenger... these are greater philosophers than you and I who came up with this... philosophers thought's of the past were based the lack of scientific information of the time and an assumtion there was a god...today a belief in god requires a suspension of logic and reality and a great deal of self delusion... Edited September 13, 2010 by wyly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maple_leafs182 Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 God didn't create us, God is us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 As mentioned in one of these God threads, new stars and planets are being formed right now. Religious types should be aware that their dear deity has chosen "Start New Game" from the menu choices. That's very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 And on a lighter note, what does science say these days about..... Wine? Fish? Berries? Olive Oil? I know what a chef says about those items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 so two million men women children and babies get crushed in Haiti even though this all powerful god with of a twitch of his eyebrow could prevent it...your god sounds like a psychopath, or more likely there is no god... NUMBER ONE_ PUT A CAPITAL LETTER ON gOD..show some respect...you do not understand - God created good as well as evil..both are part of nature - it is man kind that crushed Haitians under inferiour buildings because some rich white bastards are still pissed off a hundred years later for the armed rebelion of slaves...who killed their WHITE masters - Haiti is not being punished by God but punished by mankind... Of course there is an intelligent life in the universe - and it is called God...it is US that reject intelligence hence we reject God as YOU do - your statement is typical - of a person who does not give a damn for his fellow man and wants to blame God for his own failings...so shut up and be good...or God if you wish - just don't sit there and expect a hand to come form the sky to assist you when you have two of your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 philosophers thought's of the past were based the lack of scientific information of the time and an assumtion there was a god...today a belief in god requires a suspension of logic and reality and a great deal of self delusion... Well, Nietzsche wrote 'God is dead' in the late 19th century - before relativity, and maybe just as Darwinism became known. His philosophy was driven by pure thought. Belief in God requires all it ever required - faith. There has never been evidence, for nor against, nor will there be. There's nothing new under the sun, in this respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 NUMBER ONE_ PUT A CAPITAL LETTER ON gOD..show some respect... have respect for nothing? do you want me to capitalize Nothing as well, how about the tooth fairy or easter bunny...abstract concepts don't deserve capitalization...you do not understand - God created good as well as evil..you do not understand - God created good as well as evil..both are part of nature - man created god because he didn't understand nature the good and evil reflects man's psychotic paranoiait is man kind that crushed Haitians under inferiour buildings because some rich white bastards are still pissed off a hundred years later for the armed rebelion of slaves...who killed their WHITE masters - Haiti is not being punished by God but punished by mankind...wow....black Haitians built the buildings...and what white bastards produced the rain/floods to punish millions of Pakistani's and for what crime?...and the 300,000 who died in the tsunami's a few years back what was their crime that the white masters conspired in their deaths?Of course there is an intelligent life in the universe - and it is called God...it is US that reject intelligence hence we reject God as YOU do - your statement is typical - of a person who does not give a damn for his fellow man and wants to blame God for his own failings...so shut up and be good...or God if you wish - just don't sit there and expect a hand to come form the sky to assist you when you have two of your own.a liftime of witnessing millions of innocent people die from natural and man made causes have taught me not to expect any help other than from my fellow man... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) NUMBER ONE_ PUT A CAPITAL LETTER ON gOD..show some respect... [bold mine] I'm trying to decide if this is perfectly-timed and poetic error thanks to the "caps lock" function, or if it was intentional. Edited September 18, 2010 by bloodyminded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 Why did I get cancer? Why do innocent babies die? Why is there so much suffering? Why? Why? Why?....all the usual why-nings. God is...G O D. HE doesn't have to answer or explain HIMSELF to mere mortals that HE created! To demand an explanation from God is to show that one doesn't truly comprehend the meaning/concept of a God. HE said: "Your ways are not MY ways. Your thoughts are not MY thoughts." That's my favorite of the explanations for evil. "God does what He wants, so f*** off!" There are numerous reasons why people do not believe....or turn away from their belief in God (apostasy). The most obvious reason so far that I read in this forum is that....God does not conform to their idea of what a god should be like. They refuse to believe because God did not do....or did not behave in such a way that they think God should. And how exactly did you arrive at this conclusion? How many ex-believers did you poll? What percentage didn't like that God didn't conform to their views of what He should act like? What percentage didn't have any expectations as to His behavior but just don't believe in such an entity anyways? What percentage are perfectly happy to accept whatever you or whoever your religious authority says God's nature to be, but simply don't think there's evidence for such a being? You do have these answers, don't you? You wouldn't just be making this kind of stuff up? For instance, why do you think I'm an atheist? Go on, take your best shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyAC Posted September 19, 2010 Report Share Posted September 19, 2010 Why are you an atheist? Hmmm maybe you're rational or reasonable. Maybe you didn't have religion forced on you as a child and were able to think freely. Maybe you grew up Catholic and were sick of all the guilt and hypocrisy which led you to examine your beliefs which almost always leads to atheism. No...my guess is god didn't conform to your wishes and to punish him you tell people that you do not believe. That's what I am doing to Santa. That fat SOB didn't bring me the light sabre I wanted when I was 6 so I punished him with intense non-belief. I know that mother culture tells us that santa died on a cross so kids could have presents, but I suspect most of those presents are just manufactured in third world countries for large multinational corps who sell them to parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyAC Posted September 19, 2010 Report Share Posted September 19, 2010 Belief in God requires all it ever required - faith. There has never been evidence, for nor against, nor will there be. There's nothing new under the sun, in this respect. Very true but the same goes for Santa, a flat earth supported by a giant turtle or your favourite, the flying spaghetti monster."Faith is a cop-out. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can’t be taken on its own merits." - Dan Barker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted September 19, 2010 Report Share Posted September 19, 2010 Why are you an atheist? Hmmm maybe you're rational or reasonable. Maybe you didn't have religion forced on you as a child and were able to think freely. Maybe you grew up Catholic and were sick of all the guilt and hypocrisy which led you to examine your beliefs which almost always leads to atheism. No...my guess is god didn't conform to your wishes and to punish him you tell people that you do not believe. That's what I am doing to Santa. That fat SOB didn't bring me the light sabre I wanted when I was 6 so I punished him with intense non-belief. I know that mother culture tells us that santa died on a cross so kids could have presents, but I suspect most of those presents are just manufactured in third world countries for large multinational corps who sell them to parents. I'm an atheist because I simply don't see a need for a god. I admit that viewing the kind of monster that some Christians worship, I have to wonder why an infinite being would give a crap about whether I believed in him or not. But that's not the reason I don't believe, it's just an odd irony. At any rate, if someone can demonstrate why God is necessary, I'll gladly listen and consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyAC Posted September 19, 2010 Report Share Posted September 19, 2010 Hard to reason with the faithful when their philosophy is "I believe therefor my god exists". The only solution to combating these dangerous delusions is to get people to examine their own beliefs. I love the work that academics like Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris are doing to combat delusional beliefs but I think we need more John Stewart, Bill Maher and George Carlin types. I think comedians can get people to examine absurd practices in a light hearted manner that academics cannot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted September 19, 2010 Report Share Posted September 19, 2010 (edited) Hard to reason with the faithful when their philosophy is "I believe therefor my god exists". The only solution to combating these dangerous delusions is to get people to examine their own beliefs. I love the work that academics like Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris are doing to combat delusional beliefs but I think we need more John Stewart, Bill Maher and George Carlin types. I think comedians can get people to examine absurd practices in a light hearted manner that academics cannot. I'm no fan of any of them. I don't really see the point in picking fights, or in pissing contests. I'm not an atheist to get back at anyone. My wife is a Catholic, so I've learned that you have to find some degree of accommodation. I think some folks on both sides of the debate are simply using it as a reason to be rude. I, of course, am sufficiently arrogant, that I need no particular reason to be rude! Edited September 19, 2010 by ToadBrother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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