Einstein's thoughts on God

[Moonlight Graham]

Really interesting thoughts/quotes from Albert Einstein on God.

I apologize for the dolt Kirk Cameron and the other dude in the video who are using Einstein's quotes for their own agenda, but the quotes themselves are fascinating perspectives on God.

Einstein on God

[Sir Bandelot]

Really interesting thoughts/quotes from Albert Einstein on God.

I apologize for the dolt Kirk Cameron and the other dude in the video who are using Einstein's quotes for their own agenda, but the quotes themselves are fascinating perspectives on God.

Einstein on God

It is fascinating. Sure, Kirk and the other dude may have taken it a bit too far at the very, end where they mentioned hell. But I don't think you need to apologize.

I am not a christian in the traditional sense of the word. But at the end of the day, I'd rather be in a room full of bible thumpers than one filled with athiests.

Imagine, a room filled with people like Dog On Porch...

[Guest TrueMetis]

Don't you just love quote mining and just plain lying assholes? A lot of those I can't even find a source for, and the ones that do have a source aren't saying what Kirk and Ray claim they are saying.

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These [...] interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them." -1954 letter to Eric Gutkind

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal god and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." -a letter he wrote in response to those who claimed that he worshipped a conventional god

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." -letter to M. Berkowitz

I am not a christian in the traditional sense of the word. But at the end of the day, I'd rather be in a room full of bible thumpers than one filled with athiests.

Imagine, a room filled with people like Dog On Porch...

DOP is nothing like most atheists. Way to generalize.

Edited August 24, 2010 by TrueMetis

[Moonlight Graham]

Don't you just love quote mining and just plain lying assholes? A lot of those I can't even find a source for, and the ones that do have a source aren't saying what Kirk and Ray claim they are saying.

Like i said, ignore the dumb hosts. Which ones are you referring to. I looked up 2 and found them no problem. One of them, from a 1929 interview, flat-out asked Einstein "do you believe in God?", and the answer was a quote from the vid.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Moonlight Graham

[Guest TrueMetis]

Like i said, ignore the dumb hosts. Which ones are you referring to. I looked up 2 and found them no problem. One of them, from a 1929 interview, flat-out asked Einstein "do you believe in God?", and the answer was a quote from the vid.

These are some of the ones I'm doubtful about.

"We know nothing about [God and the wold] at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren..."

"I see a pattern, but my imagination cannot picture the maker of the pattern. I see a clock but I cannot envision the clockmaker..."

"I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws."

"As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene."

"Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."

Some of these have sources which I'm not sure about the credibility of. There are more as well but I don't feel like writing them out.

[dre]

Einstein was an Atheist with humility and an open mind.

I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.

- Albert Einstein, letter to Guy H. Raner Jr, July 2, 1945, responding to a rumor that a Jesuit priest had caused Einstein to convert from atheism

I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.

- Albert Einstein, letter to Guy H. Raner Jr., Sept. 28, 1949

[Moonlight Graham]

I actually don't even care if Einstein was an atheist or not, or even if the quotes were 100% fabricated. They are just really interesting quotes.

[Remiel]

Einstein was an Atheist with humility and an open mind.

I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.

- Albert Einstein, letter to Guy H. Raner Jr, July 2, 1945, responding to a rumor that a Jesuit priest had caused Einstein to convert from atheism

Honestly, from the text of the quote it seems to me that you left out an important part of that sentence with your bolding. To me, it sounds as if he is saying that a Jesuit priest would think him an atheist because of his beliefs, but that is not necessarily how he thinks of himself.

[ToadBrother]

Like i said, ignore the dumb hosts. Which ones are you referring to. I looked up 2 and found them no problem. One of them, from a 1929 interview, flat-out asked Einstein "do you believe in God?", and the answer was a quote from the vid.

I'm not sure what the issue is here. Einstein was a Deist, or at least that's the position that best approximates what his views were. He also used God at times as something of a metaphor for nature, or the forces of it. He certainly wasn't an atheist, but his beliefs would offer no comfort to religious nuts like Kirk Cameron. He made it very clear that he wasn't one of them.

[DogOnPorch]

It is fascinating. Sure, Kirk and the other dude may have taken it a bit too far at the very, end where they mentioned hell. But I don't think you need to apologize.

I am not a christian in the traditional sense of the word. But at the end of the day, I'd rather be in a room full of bible thumpers than one filled with athiests.

Imagine, a room filled with people like Dog On Porch...

That won't happen as atheist tend not meet in big rooms as a general rule like you God-types. There are no atheist 'leaders' and there are no atheist 'holy books'.

TM: DOP is nothing like most atheists. Way to generalize.

Yeah, right...way to generalize, yourself.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Yeah, right...way to generalize, yourself.

Except I wasn't, unless you assume that the choice is being like to you or a single other choice. That's what we who understand fallacies call a false dichotomy.

[DogOnPorch]

Except I wasn't, unless you assume that the choice is being like to you or a single other choice. That's what we who understand fallacies call a false dichotomy.

Oh yeah...deny my existence. Last I checked, we are all individuals.

[betsy]

Einstein was not an atheist....he was a deist.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Einstein was a genius, in the end belief in god or lack there of is irrelevant.

[Remiel]

Einstein was a genius, in the end belief in god or lack there of is irrelevant.

True enough. This whole argument stinks of Appeal to Authority.

[ToadBrother]

Einstein was not an atheist....he was a deist.

And a very weak one at that. His views shouldn't be much comfort to theists. He certainly rejected all the trappings of organized religion and a personal god.

[Sir Bandelot]

And a very weak one at that. His views shouldn't be much comfort to theists. He certainly rejected all the trappings of organized religion and a personal god.

Seems to me that like most of us, his beliefs changed over time. But that's normal, it's called wisdom. I think in the end he disliked people who thought they knew the answers, people who held fixed beliefs. He saw that as arrogance. In the end he may have realized, everything that we perceive is only coming from our limited senses. Our brains are not capable of understanding the whole picture. That's why Socrates said, we know nothing.

But through evolution and the preservation of knowledge, we come to realize what seemed utterly impossible to us yesterday. That's the way it's been in the past, so many times over, and that's the way it will continue. The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we CAN imagine. Anyone who's into science knows this to be true.

[DogOnPorch]

Seems to me that like most of us, his beliefs changed over time. But that's normal, it's called wisdom. I think in the end he disliked people who thought they knew the answers, people who held fixed beliefs. He saw that as arrogance. In the end he may have realized, everything that we perceive is only coming from our limited senses. Our brains are not capable of understanding the whole picture. That's why Socrates said, we know nothing.

But through evolution and the preservation of knowledge, we come to realize what seemed utterly impossible to us yesterday. That's the way it's been in the past, so many times over, and that's the way it will continue. The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we CAN imagine. Anyone who's into science knows this to be true.

In a mere 100 years or so, cosmology and astronomy (and associated engineering fields) have taken us from barely knowing our Solar System back to to the very nuclear soup that was the Big Bang. You will be proven very wrong in the future. I will also hazard that future humans will merge/evolve with computers so that our puny monkey brains will be supplemented many fold more times than we already are (typing away on the interface keyboard...how quaint, as Scotty said).

[Bonam]

I will also hazard that future humans will merge/evolve with computers so that our puny monkey brains will be supplemented many fold more times than we already are (typing away on the interface keyboard...how quaint, as Scotty said).

Indeed. Been reading some Kurzweil lately?

[DogOnPorch]

Indeed. Been reading some Kurzweil lately?

You turned me on to the whole singularity idea.

The title of the book I want to write is : Where Is My Silver Spacesuit??

I figure I SHOULD be sharing exotic Moon drinks with dabo girls sporting blue skin while taking atmospheric readings on my tricorder. I don't know about you...

Heck...this was over 40 years ago.

Human's first trip beyond Earth...the United States in particular...nobody else has managed.

Edited August 25, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[betsy]

And a very weak one at that. His views shouldn't be much comfort to theists. He certainly rejected all the trappings of organized religion and a personal god.

I doubt if theists with true faith seek spiritual comfort from scientists.

It is just interesting to note that views of some famous scientists were not conclusive with the findings they hoped and wished to find. The fact that they wavered - like Darwin -, some even to the point of conversion really say a lot.

As I said in the other thread "Rejoice....," if you set out to prove your belief, if you're honest, you must be prepared to disprove it. The honesty is the hard part.

Edited August 28, 2010 by betsy

[Guest TrueMetis]

I doubt if theists with true faith seek spiritual comfort from scientists.

It is just interesting to note that views of some famous scientists were not conclusive with the findings they hoped and wished to find. The fact that they wavered - like Darwin -, some even to the point of conversion really say a lot.

You've got it backwards scientists, Darwin included, find the evidence first then figure out what it means not the other way around. And I'm not sure what you think it means that 150 years ago a scientist might have wavered (I never seen any proof this is true) do you think no research has been done in the last 150 years? If Newton before he died said gravity was a crock of shite would it change anything? Obviously not.

[Bonam]

You turned me on to the whole singularity idea.

Nice

I figure I SHOULD be sharing exotic Moon drinks with dabo girls sporting blue skin while taking atmospheric readings on my tricorder. I don't know about you...

Haha, I am looking forward to those days also.

Heck...this was over 40 years ago.

Human's first trip beyond Earth...the United States in particular...nobody else has managed.

Indeed. Sadly space exploration has taken somewhat of a back seat since then. The state of NASA these days is a shame.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Bonam

[betsy]

double posting.

Edited August 29, 2010 by betsy

[betsy]

You've got it backwards scientists, Darwin included, find the evidence first then figure out what it means not the other way around. And I'm not sure what you think it means that 150 years ago a scientist might have wavered (I never seen any proof this is true) do you think no research has been done in the last 150 years? If Newton before he died said gravity was a crock of shite would it change anything? Obviously not.

However or whatever scientists do to arrive at conclusions does not alter the fact that some scientists wavered (and that includes Darwin).....and some are still wavering as we speak.

I mentioned Darwin because his correspondence with Asa Gray showed the conflict in him.

The following is taken from an old thread titled, "DARWIN," in this forum.

"Finally, in December, Darwin sent up the white flag, conceding that "f anything is designed, certainly Man must be; one's 'inner consciousness' (though a false guide) tells one so; yet I cannot admit that man's rudimentary mammae ... & pug-nose were designed .... I am in thick mud;--the orthodox would say in fetid abominable mud."[/1]16

From this point on, the topic is not as central in their correspondence.

Following the publication of Darwin's book on orchids, however, he asked Gray to look at the last chapter, since Darwin believed that it bore on the design question. Gray's response was found in both his review of the book and in a letter to Darwin. In his review, he praised Darwin for having "brought back teleological considerations into botany." He concluded:

We faithfully believe that both natural science and natural theology will richly gain, and equally gain, whether we view each varied form as original, or whether we come to conclude, with Mr. Darwin, that they are derived:--the grand and most important inference of design in nature being drawn from the same data, subject to similar difficulties, and enforced by nearly the same considerations, in the one case as in the other.17

Gray may have believed that Darwin "brought back teleological considerations into botany," and Darwin may have swung that way in his book on orchids, but by 1867 Darwin had definitely swung back to the other side."

http://www.asa3.org/...F9-01Miles.html

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=14060&st=0

And an excerpt from his letter:

"what is perhaps his most revealing response, a letter in 1879 to John Fordyce, an author of works on scepticism, Darwin writes:

"My judgment often fluctuates…. Whether a man deserves to be called a theist depends on the definition of the term … In my most extreme fluctuations I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. — I think that generally (and more and more so as I grow older), but not always, — that an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind."

http://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/what-did-darwin-believe-article

Edited August 30, 2010 by betsy