Where should the new NYC mosque be built?

[bush_cheney2004]

Big fan of Saudi Arabia?

I love Saudi granite....lots of slabs to choose from...400 million years old!

[DogOnPorch]

I love Saudi granite....lots of slabs to choose from...400 million years old!

Remember all those vinyl floors...usually in bathrooms...with the fake repeating Saudi granite. A 70s standard along with olive, goldenrod etc kitchen appliances.

[kimmy]

The gay bar "proposal" is not serious; we know this because most of its rhetorical "supporters" throw tantrums at the fact of homosexuality becoming normalized (which they oppose). The very idea is to declare Muslim hypocrisy, without even pretending to be serious about the dialogue in the first place.

In other words, they don't want dialogue; they cherish their "clash of civilizations narrative too much to ruin it.

What they're saying is, "we won't build dialogue on this issue"...hoping that the Muslims in question will return the sentiment in kind. The response you quote could be more about the fact of the intended provocation than of the subject of the provocation itself. Similarly, there are few insults which actually bother me; it's the fact of the intention to insult me that I consider bothersome.

The disingenuousness of the "proposal" becomes clear when we realize (as most of us surely do) that most of the "let's build a gay bar" giggling children actually find such things repugnant.

And, all things being equal, would no doubt oppose a gay bar being opened too close to the Hallowed site of the Worst Crime in History.

You just used a whole lot of words to say, repeatedly, that conservatives hate gays.

But how American conservatives or Fox viewers or even Red Eye viewers feel about gay bars is irrelevant. It would be comparable to me dismissing the "building bridges" premise of Park 51 on the premise that I don't think most Muslims really want to "dialog" with the west.

I don't know enough about Mr Gutfeld's views on homosexuality to have an opinion on his sincerity. I just read that he is a libertarian, and a former editor of Maxim's UK edition and Stuff magazine (hardly conservative magazines) and Men's Health magazine (which probably has a higher gay readership than most.) None of this really sounds like reason to doubt his sincerity.

If we question Mr Gutfeld's intention to "build bridges" based on the provocative nature of his proposal, shouldn't the same logic be applied to the Park 51 project as well? Do Mr Rauf et al really think that something that has generated this much animosity will be the basis for "building bridges"?

Whoever wrote the Twitter response for Park 51 had it right: you can build whatever you like... but no dialog is going to happen. Gutfeld's gay-bar isn't going to make Muslims respect homosexuals. And Park 51 isn't going to make New Yorkers love Islam.

-k

[bloodyminded]

I don't know enough about Mr Gutfeld's views on homosexuality to have an opinion on his sincerity. I just read that he is a libertarian, and a former editor of Maxim's UK edition and Stuff magazine (hardly conservative magazines) and Men's Health magazine (which probably has a higher gay readership than most.) None of this really sounds like reason to doubt his sincerity.

you honestly think that Gutfeld is sincerely promoting the idea of a gay bay in the neighbourhood for the express purpose of "building bridges" and "dialogue"?

Come on, kimmy. That's nonsense on its face.

Besides...the fact that there already are gay bars in the neighbourhood rather demolishes even this bizarre pretence.

If we question Mr Gutfeld's intention to "build bridges" based on the provocative nature of his proposal, shouldn't the same logic be applied to the Park 51 project as well? Do Mr Rauf et al really think that something that has generated this much animosity will be the basis for "building bridges"?

Why would we apply the "same logic" when they're not the same?

Whoever wrote the Twitter response for Park 51 had it right: you can build whatever you like... but no dialog is going to happen. Gutfeld's gay-bar isn't going to make Muslims respect homosexuals. And Park 51 isn't going to make New Yorkers love Islam.

That the Sufi Muslims who are explicitly opposed to terrorism are trying to be provocative and aggressive is rank speculation based on zero information, and in direct opposition to their long-held, pre-controversy beliefs.

That the people giggling, "Let's build a gay bar and name it after Muslim terms of reference, 'cuz we all know they hate gays!" are trying to be provocative is not even debatable.

I can't believe you even try to argue this point.

[Shady]

I don't know enough about Mr Gutfeld's views on homosexuality to have an opinion on his sincerity. I just read that he is a libertarian, and a former editor of Maxim's UK edition and Stuff magazine (hardly conservative magazines) and Men's Health magazine (which probably has a higher gay readership than most.) None of this really sounds like reason to doubt his sincerity.

Great point kimmy. He also worked for The Huffington Post a couple of years ago. Hardly a bastion of conservative thinking. From my understanding, he's very indifferent on the issue of gay rights. But you know who's not indifferent on the issue of gay rights, and homosexuality in general? Muslims.

[DogOnPorch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzXXi7BCDOE

[GostHacked]

The 2:50 mark drives this home.

More of a threat than Islam LOL.....

5:30 is pretty good too.

[Shady]

Haggard and Robertson are building a mosque at Ground Zero?

[DogOnPorch]

Haggard and Robertson are building a mosque at Ground Zero?

Notice again how the posters are put into the position of actually defending one bad act with another?

Too much fun...

Edited August 12, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[GostHacked]

Notice again how the posters are put into the position of actually defending one bad act with another?

Notice how you are an athiest, but only really complain about one religion, when you should be an equal opportunist and get your digs in all of them. But you do focus on one specifically. You hate all religion right? Or do you hate more than others?

For what it's worth (not a hell of a lot)

Islam openly marries children

Catholicism secretly diddles your children.

And both religions sweep it under the rug and both religions have their apologists.

[DogOnPorch]

Notice how you are an athiest, but only really complain about one religion, when you should be an equal opportunist and get your digs in all of them. But you do focus on one specifically. You hate all religion right? Or do you hate more than others?

For what it's worth (not a hell of a lot)

Islam openly marries children

Catholicism secretly diddles your children.

And both religions sweep it under the rug and both religions have their apologists.

I dislike Islam more than other religions for resons quite obvious to me...maybe not you. Is there a problem with that or am I supposed to be 'fair' and not bring-up nasty things like kiddie-brides? Or, if I bring-up the failings of one, I should take the time to find equally awful stuff happening in some other cult? I think I'll leave that up to you and other posters who defend Islam so vigourously...to be fair n' all. I probably couldn't find enough Christ-motivated terrorist acts where the suicide bomber yells "Go and do thou likewise!!" anyways.

But you know where to find them, right?

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/08/07/aid-workers-killed-afghanistan.html

[Guest TrueMetis]

Notice again how the posters are put into the position of actually defending one bad act with another?

Too much fun...

I think that's more pointing out that all religions have their nut jobs but they don't represent the whole. Like Stalin doesn't represent all atheists those ass-hats don't represent all Islam or Christianity.

[Bonam]

I think that's more pointing out that all religions have their nut jobs but they don't represent the whole. Like Stalin doesn't represent all atheists those ass-hats don't represent all Islam or Christianity.

Those "ass-hats" don't represents "all Islam", but they do seem to represent a big enough chunk of it to be worried.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Bonam

[bloodyminded]

Those "ass-hats" don't represents "all Islam", but they do seem to represent a big enough chunk of it to be worried.

How big a chunk is it?

[Jack Weber]

How big a chunk is it?

I don't think it's that big,comparatively speaking...

I think it's big enough,though...And Fascistic enough to intimidate otherwise sane people into being silent...

[bloodyminded]

I don't think it's that big,comparatively speaking...

I think it's big enough,though...And Fascistic enough to intimidate otherwise sane people into being silent...

According to Dre's post on the other thread, this is less than obvious. Violent jihadists were always a minority, but now seem to be fleeing underground from the anti-terrorist voices.

[Jack Weber]

According to Dre's post on the other thread, this is less than obvious. Violent jihadists were always a minority, but now seem to be fleeing underground from the anti-terrorist voices.

That remains to be seen...

[bloodyminded]

That remains to be seen...

I agree. But posts like Dre's certainly show some good signs.

[DogOnPorch]

I think that's more pointing out that all religions have their nut jobs but they don't represent the whole. Like Stalin doesn't represent all atheists those ass-hats don't represent all Islam or Christianity.

It's called relativism.

For example...

I say: Homosexuality is punishable by DEATH in Islam.

Some bright light says: Women aren't allowed to be priests in the RC church!

Like the two cancel each other out. Overlooking you have a body to clean-up with the first cult's actions.

[Jack Weber]

I agree. But posts like Dre's certainly show some good signs.

I hope so...

I'd hate to think an entire faith has become so insular that the Fascist lunatics within it's fringes are the only voices speaking for over 1 billion people...

[Jack Weber]

It's called relativism.

For example...

I say: Homosexuality is punishable by DEATH in Islam.

Some bright light says: Women aren't allowed to be priests in the RC church!

Like the two cancel each other out. Overlooking you have a body to clean-up with the first cult's actions.

Except in Iran...

I've been informed by Mr.Ahmedinejad that there are no gays in Iran...

[DogOnPorch]

Except in Iran...

I've been informed by Mr.Ahmedinejad that there are no gays in Iran...

But plenty of evil adulteresses in need of a damn good stoning.

[Jack Weber]

But plenty of evil adulteresses in need of a damn good stoning.

Quite an enlightened society that Islamic Republic of Iran???

[DogOnPorch]

Quite an enlightened society that Islamic Republic of Iran???

Oh yeah...but at least it isn't the Shah and his evil miniskirt endorsing wife.

[bloodyminded]

Oh yeah...but at least it isn't the Shah and his evil miniskirt endorsing wife.

Yeah, that's all that was wrong with the Shah.

He wasn't a brutal murderer and torturer, or anything.

And you're not a sycophantic moral relativist or anything.....