sharkman Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 And yet I offered an alternative that would cost virtually nothing. And your response was "IF you don't like it, don't watch it." You don't make a lot of sense... Well if democracy doesn't make sense for you then I can't help you. Most Canadians are fine with this event unlike you. As in other situations, the minority has to suck it up and get on with life. BTW, your alternative doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF/PF Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 Well if democracy doesn't make sense for you then I can't help you. I realize that rhetoric can be fun.. but.. what does the location of a meeting have to do with democracy? Most Canadians are fine with this event unlike you. As in other situations, the minority has to suck it up and get on with life. I suspect that if you asked most Canadians if they think the meeting should be held in a more tax payer friendly manner, your view would be in a small minority. BTW, your alternative doesn't make sense. Any why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF/PF Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 Yes, believe it or not. It is up to someone else to make you poor or rich. We must forever be the spectator and I know it is hard to spectate without the essentials of life. There are two ways we can get them. Have someone give them to us or we take them. There is no other way except well...maybe producing more than we consume but that would mean leaving our comfy-chairs. In case it wasn't clear that I was being sarcastic toward your claim that protesters want us all to be poor.. uhm.. well yeah. Glad I could clear that up for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafless Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 (edited) The problem is what is the percentage of the decisions that the "representative" made is same with yours? To me, only a small amount in common. Exactly. Our representative democracy is badly flawed. And that is why we require a process that allows citizens to initiate decisions and actions on issues that their elected representatives refuse to address or do not properly address. Edited June 28, 2010 by Leafless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 (edited) I realize that rhetoric can be fun.. but.. what does the location of a meeting have to do with democracy? I suspect that if you asked most Canadians if they think the meeting should be held in a more tax payer friendly manner, your view would be in a small minority. Any why is that? Maybe I should go slower. The democracy part comes in when you discover that the largest segment of Canadians are fine with the G20 thing, and want the cops to bust up the protesters so they don't bust up property. It's real easy to say that it could have been held cheaper, but since you don't organize G20 meetings I suspect you have little idea of what the costs really are. Video conference!! Edited June 28, 2010 by sharkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 Most of the incidents took place very close to my two locations. I did a walk about around noon the day of the first event. The cops were not dilegent - it reminded my of a nicely paid high school reunion. Secondly - the establishment knew it was coming in the form that it came. Thirdly during the orchestrated chaos - One young reporter spewed out this regarding the leader of the Black Bloc.."I know that guy - he is an AMERICAN who is currently going to U of T ..He was picked up a couple of days ago and it looks like they released him-" That is to para phrase - So the jerk leading the vandalous charge is a frinking American kid who spent time at the University of Toronto recruting... Then there is the sad situation where another intuative reporter...said of the burning of the cop cars...."They look like old clunkers" _ odd and questionable that they left the two crusiers with the windows down unattended - They will never be able to explain their way out of that common and obvious set up.. Now down to the nitty gritty --- The root meaning of the term anarchist - in Greek means with out a leader... The G-gang are anarchists - they have no real leader and their very existance brought about lawlessness - These poor kids most of who are the white dread lock set - are simply dupes - the black operatives - are also dupes and the leader of these vandals might even be on the payroll to destablize my city --- so in actuality we had bottom feeding anarchists...dupes - and high ranking ones refered to as the G-20 gang - as far as I am concerned the people who really have clout merely sent their frount guys... So - It appears and it very evident that the great distraction through violence and the great photo - op for flames -- was very nicely orchestrated..What should have taken place is that the cops in black should have attacked and taken down the kids in black..very simple. Now near my home was the detention centre - firing a rubber bullet at a girl was simply stupid. I just wish that the G-gang..would have not made such a show of it - and did all their bidding in the country side instead of a bunch of little weasils who are so emotionally and mentally insecure that they had to show a use of force - the cops are beside themselves - most were insulted at being used - and the cops that refered to the caged demonstrators down on Eastern Ave...as rats are not fit for public service. Lastly I spoke to some media guys running a City TV - moblie unit - one of the supposed guys wearing the company T shirt said _ he was not a journalist but was hired by City --- as security - Then he revealed to me that he was a former Black Water employee - what the fu*k is that - private mercs to guard media - apparently traditional law enforcement could not be trusted.. Any way - I would safely say that our Chief of Police was duped and double crossed..this is a huge embarrassement - to law enforcement and to the city of toronto. Next time - KEEP THE ANARCHISTS OUT - THE BILLIONARE ONES AND THE BLACK BLOC BEGGARS LEAD BY SOME YOUNG AMERICAN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 That is the reason that makes many people unhappy. You can't make everyone happy all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 (edited) Exactly. Our representative democracy is badly flawed.And that is why we require a process that allows citizens to initiate decisions and actions on issues that their elected representatives refuse to address or do not properly address. Completely unworkable and wouldn't be guaranteed to result in what you want, anyway, which is ultimately the purpose behind your suggestion: the fact that your preferred option was not the chosen option being a clear sign of the failing of our democratic system, of course. [c/e] Edited June 28, 2010 by g_bambino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 The police didn't use rubber bullets they used 'muzzle blasts" which are tear gas canisters intended for a single target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 So you compare them with chinese gov and understand actually there are no difference between them at last? I wouldn't be surprised that all this was shown on Iranian television as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 What I seen was the most pampered of all canadians out whinnying, university students and union members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 The police didn't use rubber bullets they used 'muzzle blasts" which are tear gas canisters intended for a single target. Hey you are talking about my hood _ i know what goes on..these so called muzzle blasts fire out an almost harmless type of "rubber bullet" it is more like a big chunk of sponge - it swells up after being fired to about the size of a juice bottle cap...I saw kids picking them up after your so called muzzle blasts..these were the nice and polite Canadian version of rubber bullets - not the harder kind that kill some stone tossing Palistinian after hitting them in the temple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 And that is why we require a process that allows citizens to initiate decisions and actions on issues that their elected representatives refuse to address or do not properly address. Oh, well that sounds like we need a democratic government. But I agree, that's the problem and we also need a meaningful and peaceful mechanism for protest and reform. To say that peaceful protest is tolerated in a democracy, yet ends up completely ignored is simply not good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 Hey you are talking about my hood _ i know what goes on..these so called muzzle blasts fire out an almost harmless type of "rubber bullet" it is more like a big chunk of sponge - it swells up after being fired to about the size of a juice bottle cap...I saw kids picking them up after your so called muzzle blasts..these were the nice and polite Canadian version of rubber bullets - not the harder kind that kill some stone tossing Palistinian after hitting them in the temple. Those "chunks of sponge" are the end cap of the tear gas cartridge. Please stop spreading your mis information on MLW. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 It's real easy to say that it could have been held cheaper, but since you don't organize G20 meetings I suspect you have little idea of what the costs really are. Video conference!! We are all expected, in our jobs to find ways to do things effectively with the lowest cost possible. There's no reason to give the government carte blanche. Because tbe fact is, unchecked they will take it all, as they've done before. Even the visiting leaders of other countries were astonished and criticized the cost of security for this meeting in Canada. Conservative, my eye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 We are all expected, in our jobs to find ways to do things effectively with the lowest cost possible. It wasn't just about hosting the G20. It was about showcasing Toronto as a business capital in the world. Also, we shouldn't allow thug protestors to dictate to us where and where not we can host events in our country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjre Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 (edited) It wasn't just about hosting the G20. It was about showcasing Toronto as a business capital in the world. Also, we shouldn't allow thug protestors to dictate to us where and where not we can host events in our country. It is easy for you to show your victory with other's (taxpayer's) money And the innocent people has to suffer this: http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0134850a0cab970c-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0134850a0d56970c-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0133f1e48084970b-850wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0133f1e48320970b-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0133f1e48493970b-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0133f1e488ee970b-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0134850a2c6e970c-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0134850a3db9970c-640wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0134850a41e4970c-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0134850a4463970c-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0133f1e4b981970b-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0134850a44f9970c-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef013485056593970c-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef013485057adb970c-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0133f1dff941970b-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0133f1dffc45970b-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0133f1e00371970b-700wi Edited June 28, 2010 by bjre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 It is easy for you to show your victory with other's (taxpayer's) money And the innocent people has to suffer this: http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0134850a0cab970c-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0134850a0d56970c-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0133f1e48084970b-850wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0133f1e48320970b-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0133f1e48493970b-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0133f1e488ee970b-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0134850a2c6e970c-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0134850a3db9970c-640wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0134850a41e4970c-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0134850a4463970c-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0133f1e4b981970b-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0134850a44f9970c-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef013485056593970c-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef013485057adb970c-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0133f1dff941970b-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0133f1dffc45970b-900wi http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef0133f1e00371970b-700wi Yep, some of the violent protestors made it bad for the good protestors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjre Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 Yep, some of the violent protestors made it bad for the good protestors. I did not see any violent protesters did any bad to the good protesters, I saw cops did that, I believe it is some politicians decided that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 I wonder if the mayor is at fault or the police chief, why did the police not take these guys out sooner, but what you see on the tv is police standing around while cars burn and the idiots dancing around them, why did they not bring out the bully clubs and start breaking heads and put a few of these idiots in the hospital, it only takes around 23 lbs of pressure to break the collar bone. Alot of these cowards would hang up their masks if bodily harm was a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 I did not see any violent protesters did any bad to the good protesters, I saw cops did that, I believe it is some politicians decided that. Maybe you didn't see it, others did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjre Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 (edited) Maybe you didn't see it, others did. proof? And if that is the excuse, what is the difference between the cops and the thugs? Edited June 28, 2010 by bjre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 I did not see any violent protesters did any bad to the good protesters, I saw cops did that, I believe it is some politicians decided that. The violent protestors made the situation bad, in which the good protestors got caught up in. But at least it wasn't Tiananmen Square right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjre Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 (edited) The violent protestors made the situation bad, in which the good protestors got caught up in. But at least it wasn't Tiananmen Square right? 23 thousand cops deal with 10 thousand protesters in 2 days and make such a result, if let them to deal with 1 million protesters for 2 month long protest supported by CIA with tent, money and strategy, they will do far worse than in Tiananmen for sure. Edited June 28, 2010 by bjre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 Oh, well that sounds like we need a democratic government. But I agree, that's the problem and we also need a meaningful and peaceful mechanism for protest and reform. To say that peaceful protest is tolerated in a democracy, yet ends up completely ignored is simply not good enough. Blame most of that on the anarchist thugs. Their biggest victims are the genuine protesters who's message is completely lost because of their actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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