Loser Protesters

[Shady]

Its a common name attributed to law enforcement or security workers.

It's a common name used as a pejorative. Not only that, but you called them rent-a-pigs. Apparently one disparaging name wasn't enough for you.

Like I said, their mostly middle class people, just doing their job. And it shouldn't matter if the terms you use have historical context. So do terms like redneck and nigger.

[lukin]

Cuba has certainly made some mistakes, but they do a lot of things better than we do. There would be lessons to be learned on both sides.

That's funny. Now I know not to take you serious. Try to talk to someone who has defected from Castro's Cuba.

[Wild Bill]

Cuba has certainly made some mistakes, but they do a lot of things better than we do.

Name three! And DON"T try to claim hospital care! They may have a lot of doctors but their hospitals are lucky to even have bandaids and Aspirin! Anybody who has had to be treated at a Cuban hospital can tell you horror stories. I have a personal friend who was injured down there on a holiday and she walks with a limp to this day!

[Bryan]

That's funny. Now I know not to take you serious. Try to talk to someone who has defected from Castro's Cuba.

I've spent time in Cuba, have you?

[dre]

Name three! And DON"T try to claim hospital care! They may have a lot of doctors but their hospitals are lucky to even have bandaids and Aspirin! Anybody who has had to be treated at a Cuban hospital can tell you horror stories. I have a personal friend who was injured down there on a holiday and she walks with a limp to this day!

You have to compare them with other similar countries, not filthy rich western ones. Theyre medical system and patient outcomes are among the best in latin America and their infant mortality rate is comparable to ours. Cuba is also becoming a medical tourism destination even for people from rich western countries.

It also does a great job at Federal Level disaster response.

For example, compare the difference between Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Hugo...

During Hugo Castro did a national telecast days prior to the hurricane making landfall, to let people know they would need to evacuate to stay safe. Government and military mobilized and helped people get to pre-prepared hurricane shelters already stocked with medical supplies, food, etc. By the time the hurricane (A cat 5 just like Katrina) hit people were already in shelters and there wasnt one single death.

Compare that with the US approach during Katrina of doing absolutely nothing to help people evacuate, no stocked shelters, and the president and other public officials patting each other on the back while thousands of Americans floated face down in their own urine and feces....

[bush_cheney2004]

During Hugo Castro did a national telecast days prior to the hurricane making landfall, to let people know they would need to evacuate to stay safe. Government and military mobilized and helped people get to pre-prepared hurricane shelters already stocked with medical supplies, food, etc. By the time the hurricane (A cat 5 just like Katrina) hit people were already in shelters and there wasnt one single death.

LOL! Hugo did not make direct landfall in Cuba....what a bunch of crap!

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/HAW2/english/history.shtml#hugo

[lukin]

I've spent time in Cuba, have you?

Spending time there as a foreigner and living there as a Cuban resident cannot be compared. You didn't dare speak out against Castro. How is that better?

[zhoot]

Checkmate, sir.

Holy moses~~

[Bryan]

Spending time there as a foreigner and living there as a Cuban resident cannot be compared.

Talking to actual Cubans in Cuba about their life and living conditions, as well as spending time traveling through the country gives me some actual first hand knowledge of what's going on there. What's your source of knowledge for Cuba? Reading a third-hand editorial from a disgruntled Miami ex-pat?

You didn't dare speak out against Castro. How is that better?

I certainly never saw a need or reason to, but many people spoke openly about the government while I was there.

[lukin]

Talking to actual Cubans in Cuba about their life and living conditions, as well as spending time traveling through the country gives me some actual first hand knowledge of what's going on there. What's your source of knowledge for Cuba? Reading a third-hand editorial from a disgruntled Miami ex-pat?

I certainly never saw a need or reason to, but many people spoke openly about the government while I was there.

If things are so great in Cuba, why do so many people try to defect? you wouldn't defect Cuba if it was a s great as you claim it to be.

[Bryan]

If things are so great in Cuba, why do so many people try to defect? you wouldn't defect Cuba if it was a s great as you claim it to be.

People leave Canada and the US for other countries in large numbers every year. No one place is what everybody wants.

Besides, I never said it was utopia. We each could learn things from the other.

[M.Dancer]

People leave Canada and the US for other countries in large numbers every year. No one place is what everybody wants.

Besides, I never said it was utopia. We each could learn things from the other.

Very few people risk their lives to leave canada...in cuba...well that's just about the only way.

[Bryan]

Very few people risk their lives to leave canada...in cuba...well that's just about the only way.

No doubt about it, it's not easy for Cubans to get permission to leave the country. Plenty of people want to move to Cuba too, that's not very easy to get permission for either. Both do happen though. I know a few Canadians who now are Cuban residents living on Isla de la Juventud. I also spoke to several Cuban nationals who got permission to leave Cuba, some of whom had already left and returned.

[madmax]

A great truth of internet argument:

If your question is prefaced "Are you asking..." or "Are you saying...", the answer is "No." usally with the addendum,"Quit trying to put idiotic words in my mouth.", or something obscene about a strawman.

Nice...

LOL.

Didn't realize people were still reading these comments...

thx.

Edited June 30, 2010 by madmax

[madmax]

Spending time there as a foreigner and living there as a Cuban resident cannot be compared. You didn't dare speak out against Castro. How is that better?

Guess you have never been there, which once again makes you an expert. Yes they do speak out about Castro and their government lead by Raul. Infact they have been the most engaged in how they want their country to move forward. The level of Apathy here is an engagement there is something to admire.

Cuba is a poor Country. However when you compare it to Haiti and the Dominican and many other 3rd world and 4th world countries, they have done well. Cuba could be wealthy, and it will become a very wealthy country when the embargo is lifted. Compare that to countries of wealth like Haiti and the Dominican with similar histories and their ability to have been part of Free Market Capitalism during the same 40 year embargo and you have to wonder.... why is Cuba able to provided services their neighbours, with the support of the entire western world, can't.

You would probably have more luck moving this discussion to the Foreign section, rather then shifting the discussion every time you box yourself into a corner.

Who knows, maybe this thread can get back to its roots on Protesting.

You know, the right to speak out and challenge the government (our government) and to have Freedom of assembly.

Pretty good thing.

[Wild Bill]

Very few people risk their lives to leave canada...in cuba...well that's just about the only way.

Here's a newsclip about Cuba that seems appropo:

http://news.sympatico.ctv.ca/home/contentposting?feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&date=true&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20100629%2fontario-teen-cuba-100629

"An Ontario teen will be stuck in Cuba indefinitely after Cuban authorities ordered him to stand trial for a traffic accident his family says was not his fault.

Cody LeCompte of Simcoe, Ont., was on vacation with his mother in April when the two decided to rent a car. On April 29, LeCompte was at the wheel, his mother in the passenger seat and a cousin and his fiancée in the back when the car was hit by a dump truck.

Two months later, Cody is still in the country, and while the family was informed by their travel agent that he will face a trial, they have no idea when it will begin or what charges he faces.

"We were hit, our party were the ones that were injured, so in no way was it my son's fault," Danette LeCompte told CTV News. "

Why so many Canadians persist in vacationing in that 'Marxist paradise' is beyond me! It seems so crass to bask on the beach at a luxury resort while poor cubans peer at you through fences and offer to sell you their bodies for toilet paper and aspirins.

I guess that group of us has no real principles except the enjoyment of a cheap holiday! Money trumps honour, I guess.

[madmax]

Very few people risk their lives to leave canada...in cuba...well that's just about the only way.

That is also not the only country in the Gulf that poor people attempt to leave and risk their lives doing so. And its not like any other country is waiting with open arms to aid the people trying to leave the country. Infact Canada and the United States sends them back or turns them away while drifting in the Ocean.

Now, If you want to see how two different governments operate. Try setting up a small business in Cuba vs one in Canada as a citizen living in their respective countries.

The number of small business operations in Cuba surprised the heck out of me.

The only reason this thread has turned to Cuba is because one of the posters arguments lost traction and a diversion was required. And once again, its stereotype nonsense.

[madmax]

Here's a newsclip about Cuba that seems appropo:

http://news.sympatico.ctv.ca/home/contentposting?feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&date=true&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20100629%2fontario-teen-cuba-100629

"An Ontario teen will be stuck in Cuba indefinitely after Cuban authorities ordered him to stand trial for a traffic accident his family says was not his fault.

I think alot of people are following this story.

It reminds me of a trucker from Air Liquide travelling in the Southern US about 15 years ago. Also found himself an accident and was not allowed to leave the country. Two weeks later, the Lawyers for Air Liquide and his own lawyer and the USW lawyers managed to get him out of the country and return when the trial was to happen. He was found not guilty. I doubt without these pressures he would have spent the whole time in the US.

[Argus]

Cuba has certainly made some mistakes, but they do a lot of things better than we do. There would be lessons to be learned on both sides.

Really? Let's hear it then. What do they do better than we do?

I'll start. They put people in prison much more efficiently than we do.

[Argus]

Its a common name attributed to law enforcement or security workers.

Common? No. Only two types use that particular pejorative; repeat lawbreakers and their barely literate kin, and a certain type of nostalgic lefty trying to relive the golden days of the 60s counterculture protests.

[Remiel]

Here's a newsclip about Cuba that seems appropo:

http://news.sympatico.ctv.ca/home/contentposting?feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&date=true&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20100629%2fontario-teen-cuba-100629

"An Ontario teen will be stuck in Cuba indefinitely after Cuban authorities ordered him to stand trial for a traffic accident his family says was not his fault.

Cody LeCompte of Simcoe, Ont., was on vacation with his mother in April when the two decided to rent a car. On April 29, LeCompte was at the wheel, his mother in the passenger seat and a cousin and his fiancée in the back when the car was hit by a dump truck.

Two months later, Cody is still in the country, and while the family was informed by their travel agent that he will face a trial, they have no idea when it will begin or what charges he faces.

"We were hit, our party were the ones that were injured, so in no way was it my son's fault," Danette LeCompte told CTV News. "

Why so many Canadians persist in vacationing in that 'Marxist paradise' is beyond me! It seems so crass to bask on the beach at a luxury resort while poor cubans peer at you through fences and offer to sell you their bodies for toilet paper and aspirins.

I guess that group of us has no real principles except the enjoyment of a cheap holiday! Money trumps honour, I guess.

Do you know the actual circumstances of the crash? The laws? Perhaps Cuba has automatic fault laws similar to Canada. Not that I agree with such laws, but they exist.

[sharkman]

I catch up on this thread to find some silly argument that Cuba is better than Canada in some ways and we could learn from them. What a load.

[Shady]

I catch up on this thread to find some silly argument that Cuba is better than Canada in some ways and we could learn from them. What a load.

Yeah, he must have been part of the loser protestors. Because Cuba does nothing better than us. Other than what Argus pointed out. Jailing, censoring. and denying human rights.

Edited June 30, 2010 by Shady

[lukin]

Guess you have never been there, which once again makes you an expert. Yes they do speak out about Castro and their government lead by Raul. Infact they have been the most engaged in how they want their country to move forward. The level of Apathy here is an engagement there is something to admire.

Cuba is a poor Country. However when you compare it to Haiti and the Dominican and many other 3rd world and 4th world countries, they have done well. Cuba could be wealthy, and it will become a very wealthy country when the embargo is lifted. Compare that to countries of wealth like Haiti and the Dominican with similar histories and their ability to have been part of Free Market Capitalism during the same 40 year embargo and you have to wonder.... why is Cuba able to provided services their neighbours, with the support of the entire western world, can't.

You would probably have more luck moving this discussion to the Foreign section, rather then shifting the discussion every time you box yourself into a corner.

Who knows, maybe this thread can get back to its roots on Protesting.

You know, the right to speak out and challenge the government (our government) and to have Freedom of assembly.

Pretty good thing.

Nothing wrong with protesting. Nothing wrong with assembling peacefully. Nothing wrong with challenging the government. There is a problem when personal property is destroyed.

Madmax, do you give anti-abortion protesters any credit for protesting something they believe in?

[eyeball]

Really wish there had been a few store owners willing to defend their property and blow the brains out of some of these idiots. Sad that our society would punish such defenders far more harshly than these marauding thugs. Sadder still is that young people in Toronto apparently have nothing better to do than behave like savages. Why were there no more security guards beside at that one store? Why no police keeping this scum from destroying businesses?

I sometimes wish the protesters who are trying to defend things like our ecosystems and civil liberties would blow away some of the idiots that are wrecking them. Sadder still is that these protesters have probably only helped polarize society into even more irreconcilable camps. Why are there no 'security guards' protecting things like our planet's ecosystems? Why no 'police' keeping marauding businesses from destroying them?