Mosque going up in NYC building

[Sir Bandelot]

How does that make you feel? Kinda makes you feel that you're being punished for the actions of people you yourself despise, and perhaps even that some folks don't see too much of a distinction between you and those people, right?

The crux of american womans argument is this: Because they are muslims, they are being insensitive about the fact that a mosque is being built close to the wtc site. Muslims should not come close to the wtc site. I mean, how could they? They're muslims!

Edited May 12, 2010 by Sir Bandelot

[BubberMiley]

Uh, no, they do not accept christian theology, they believe in several wives and follow the Book of Mormon, written by Joseph Smith. Something about them being the Christ believing Israelites of the Americas. Christian theology differs in all of these and more issues.

Why don't you look up Mormons in wikipedia, Metis? You obviously don't understand the differences.

It's cool that your ideology is so fluid you would deny the Church of Jesus Christ is Christian. Facts are always secondary to personal interpretation.

I think one could make a better argument that capitalists are not christian, considering the fact that, you know, that christ guy spent his life criticizing and condemning them.

Edited May 12, 2010 by BubberMiley

[Michael Hardner]

You forgot MLK...lol.

My point being: people look at these situations where violence is involved, and make a visual connection between the violent act and the way the perpetrators look. If it's good enough to do so based on one's religion, why not race ?

I have brought this up before - in the distant past - and was amazed to hear the response was that there were different 'root causes' etc. etc. in the case of race. The anti-Muslims became arch-liberals in the flash of an instant.

[dizzy]

My point being: people look at these situations where violence is involved, and make a visual connection between the violent act and the way the perpetrators look. If it's good enough to do so based on one's religion, why not race ?

I have brought this up before - in the distant past - and was amazed to hear the response was that there were different 'root causes' etc. etc. in the case of race. The anti-Muslims became arch-liberals in the flash of an instant.

Another example, based on ideology so that the comparison to religion is easier to digest, would be equating Timothy McVeigh to all american constitution protectionists. Would people have a problem if a mainstream organization, which existed to promote the preservation of the US Constitution through education and dialogue, decided to open a cultural centre near to the Oklahoma City government building?

[Michael Hardner]

Another example, based on ideology so that the comparison to religion is easier to digest, would be equating Timothy McVeigh to all american constitution protectionists. Would people have a problem if a mainstream organization, which existed to promote the preservation of the US Constitution through education and dialogue, decided to open a cultural centre near to the Oklahoma City government building?

Actually, it may cause a stir after all - depending on the tenor of the group. You could imagine various configurations of that group, some of which would be objectionable other which wouldn't.

[DogOnPorch]

My point being: people look at these situations where violence is involved, and make a visual connection between the violent act and the way the perpetrators look. If it's good enough to do so based on one's religion, why not race ?

I have brought this up before - in the distant past - and was amazed to hear the response was that there were different 'root causes' etc. etc. in the case of race. The anti-Muslims became arch-liberals in the flash of an instant.

Oh really?? When you look at Danny Glover do you think of Glock packin' rap gangsters? I don't.

[Michael Hardner]

Oh really?? When you look at Danny Glover do you think of Glock packin' rap gangsters? I don't.

I don't even want to try to imagine how you think.

It seems like you think your perceptions on things should decide how the rest of us decide to do things, though. Like 50-cent is the cause of violence, Muslims are the cause of terrorism etc.

In any case, I think we need to guide people to a higher level of thinking than to just look at the superficial similarities between the perpetrators and determine that that is the 'cause'.

[dizzy]

Actually, it may cause a stir after all - depending on the tenor of the group. You could imagine various configurations of that group, some of which would be objectionable other which wouldn't.

Agreed. I'm searching for the most even comparison between a radical 'sect' and the mainstream reality presented by the organizations offering to build this mosque and cultural centre.

I can't imagine turning down the offer to convert a presently abandoned building into a striking model of modernity, complete with swimming pool and 500 seat arts performance venue, simply because the few involved with the WTC attack are affilliated, by way of a billion-strong religion, to the moderate, multi-faith organizations in question. Clearly the area's community BIA can't either.

[dizzy]

Oh really?? When you look at Danny Glover do you think of Glock packin' rap gangsters? I don't.

When you meet a western dressed muslim in your workplace, do you think of rag-headed terrorists packing bomb vests? I don't.

[DogOnPorch]

As per usual, you attempt to put words into folks mouths. Nowhere did I say 50 Cent is the cause of all gun violence . But, he is well known for rapping about gun violence, none-the-less. Putting a poster of such an individual over Jane Creba's grave would be an insult if you haven't figured THAT out. This even though 50 Cent had no direct link to her murder at the hands of vicious psycopaths.

But sure, trot out some tired racist garbage about Danny Glover.

[DogOnPorch]

When you meet a western dressed muslim in your workplace, do you think of rag-headed terrorists packing bomb vests? I don't.

Islam is a religion, smart guy. That means there are black, white, yellow, red, brown, purple and green Muslims.

[dizzy]

Islam is a religion, smart guy. That means there are black, white, yellow, red, brown, purple and green Muslims.

Which is why I made an ideological comparison above. I assume you don't believe that all people who believe in the preservation of the US consititution, as is, are the same as Timothy McVeigh?

[Michael Hardner]

But sure, trot out some tired racist garbage about Danny Glover.

Sorry - I'm getting confused between you and Shady ... who said "Islam was responsible".

I'm sure you can see how it can get confusing, what with some people scapegoating an entire religion, and others focusing on something else.

[DogOnPorch]

Which is why I made an ideological comparison above. I assume you don't believe that all people who believe in the preservation of the US consititution, as is, are the same as Timothy McVeigh?

There are many more Tim McVeigh out there...just waiting. Only you and MH are insisting it be 100% one way or another...ie Tim was a terrorist, therefore all whites are terrorists. Socrates was a cat, I hear.

Meanwhile, go to Jane Creba's grave and erect a billboard of 50 Cent if there's nothing insulting about such an act.

[dizzy]

There are many more Tim McVeigh out there...just waiting. Only you and MH are insisting it be 100% one way or another...ie Tim was a terrorist, therefore all whites are terrorists. Socrates was a cat, I hear.

Meanwhile, go to Jane Creba's grave and erect a billboard of 50 Cent if there's nothing insulting about such an act.

I'll answer your question. Yes, I'd find it insulting to erect a billboard of any person celebrating gun violence over the place wear jane creba was shot. I'd oppose it in a neighbourhood like Rexdale or Jane and Finch, where other lives were senselessly lost. Now, would you care to draw the connection between this and the mosque/cultural centre being proposed for lower manhattan?

Now, would you care to answer mine? "Do you believe that all people who believe in the preservation of the US constititution, as is, are the same as Timothy McVeigh?"

Edited May 12, 2010 by dizzy

[Michael Hardner]

There are many more Tim McVeigh out there...just waiting. Only you and MH are insisting it be 100% one way or another...

I think Shady is the one who insisted that a religion was responsible actually.

[Sir Bandelot]

Meanwhile, go to Jane Creba's grave and erect a billboard of 50 Cent if there's nothing insulting about such an act.

It simply does not compare. If they were talking about putting up a billboard of a terrorist, or someone who condones it, then it would.

[DogOnPorch]

I'll answer your question. Yes, I'd find it insulting to erect a billboard of any person celebrating gun violence over the place wear jane creba was shot. I'd oppose it in a neighbourhood like Rexdale or Jane and Finch, where other lives were senselessly lost. Now, would you care to draw the connection between this and the mosque/cultural centre being proposed for lower manhattan?

Now, would you care to answer mine? "Do you believe that all people who believe in the preservation of the US constititution, as is, are the same as Timothy McVeigh?"

As mentioned, only you and MH insist that everything be 100% one way or another. I already stated there are many Tim McVeighs out there waiting.

As for the mosque...as AW mentioned...what's the assurance that only "moderates" will pray at the site where Muslim warriors commited Jihad against the Great Satan. Seems like it'd be the ideal place to gloat a tad.

[dizzy]

As mentioned, only you and MH insist that everything be 100% one way or another. I already stated there are many Tim McVeighs out there waiting.

As for the mosque...as AW mentioned...what's the assurance that only "moderates" will pray at the site where Muslim warriors commited Jihad against the Great Satan. Seems like it'd be the ideal place to gloat a tad.

Your response is not congruent with my question. I can understand why you wouldn't want to answer it.

Edited May 12, 2010 by dizzy

[Guest American Woman]

The crux of american womans argument is this: Because they are muslims, they are being insensitive about the fact that a mosque is being built close to the wtc site. Muslims should not come close to the wtc site. I mean, how could they? They're muslims!

Based on the stupidity of this post complete misinterpretation of what my point of view actually is, I can only assume it's yet another example of:

....I believe there is a tendency here to tease or provoke certain American members, usually just for fun....

[sharkman]

Yeah, I'm with you on that one, AW.

[DogOnPorch]

Your response is not congruent with my question. I can understand why you wouldn't want to answer it.

A mind reader are you? Good thing it isn't the 1600s...burnt @ yon stake for vvitchcraft!

What part of 'there are many Tim McVeighs' did you have problems with? The noun? Or perhaps the verb?

[Sir Bandelot]

Based on the stupidity of this post complete misinterpretation of what my point of view actually is, I can only assume it's yet another example of:

Explain how it could be otherwise then. And note, I'm not the only one pointing out your seemingly contradictory views on this.

[Sir Bandelot]

I try to keep my replies as civil as possible. You meanwhile keep going for the "stupidity" inuendos. Take my advice, it only makes you look bad.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Sir Bandelot

[Guest American Woman]

I try to keep my replies as civil as possible.

So the "tendency ... to tease or provoke certain American members, usually just for fun," is your idea of being "as civil as possible?" Perhaps that is as civil as is possible for you, but you'll have to pardon me if that's not my idea of civil.

You meanwhile keep going for the "stupidity" inuendos.

That's because purposely provoking American members just for fun is stupid. If you don't see it that way, you're the one with the problem.

Edited May 12, 2010 by American Woman