Mosque going up in NYC building

[Shady]

That doesn't mean that islam was responsible. It means that muslim people were responsible, but it doesn't mean that all of Islam is responsible.

I didn't say that all of Islam is responsible.

And if you were a radical feminist, you'd be saying it was because they were all men. What else did they have in common?

Yes, they were all men, and all of the same religious ideology. Islam. I'm still unsure as to why we're all so afraid to say it.

Again, I'm not saying that all Islam is responsible. But my response was in response to ToadBrother's politically correct tripe, insisting that Islam wasn't even indirectly associated with the incident.

[GostHacked]

I didn't say that all of Islam is responsible.

Yes, they were all men, and all of the same religious ideology. Islam. I'm still unsure as to why we're all so afraid to say it.

Again, I'm not saying that all Islam is responsible. But my response was in response to ToadBrother's politically correct tripe, insisting that Islam wasn't even indirectly associated with the incident.

Islam itself had nothing to do with 9/11.

[Shady]

Islam itself had nothing to do with 9/11.

I wish I could be as naive as you are. Such child-like innocence.

[GostHacked]

I wish I could be as naive as you are. Such child-like innocence.

Extremists who follow an extreme view of Islam is not Islam in general or on the whole.

[Guest American Woman]

That doesn't mean that islam was responsible. It means that muslim people were responsible, but it doesn't mean that all of Islam is responsible.

The fact that it means Muslim people were responsible is enough; it's why other Muslim people should be sensitive to the feelings of those who lost loved ones on 9-11. As I already pointed out, but for the attack by some Muslims, this land/building wouldn't have even been available to have a Mosque built by other Muslims. In that respect, it is a slap in the face, and I'm sure if it were Christians or Jews or Americans involved instead of Muslims, some people would have no problem seeing the insensitivity of it.

I repeat. This spot is important to many people as a memorial, and as such, the Mosque could be built elsewhere. I repeat, also, that I don't expect anything from Muslims regarding this matter that I wouldn't hold myself, Christians, Jews, atheists, what-have-you, to. (So I guess that makes some people believe I'm prejudiced against everyone .... )

Edited May 11, 2010 by American Woman

[JB Globe]

I think it's pretty clear that this Rosemary Cain is prejudiced against Muslims. When she says "them", it's clear to me that she's grouping the terrorists and all Muslim into the same category of people. In other words, it's not just terrorists who executed the 9/11 attacks, but the entire Muslim world. So, we don't need to take this lady too seriously.

Co-sign.

I was in Egypt recently and many folks there were able to distinguish between Judaism and the actions of the state of Israel.

If they're sophisticated enough to make that distinction I don't really think folks in the US or Canada have any excuse to not recognize that Al-Qaeda and Islam are not one in the same.

[Michael Hardner]

Let's see, they all think America is the great Satan, we are all infidels who need to bow the knee to Islam or face the sword, Jews are pigs, homosexuals are an abomination, women are property... I'd go on but I know you are not interested in negative comments about Muslims. Too bad they keep trying to bomb American cities, eh?

This is patently untrue. Why would they come here ?

You're just trolling at this point.

[Michael Hardner]

Yes, they were all men, and all of the same religious ideology. Islam. I'm still unsure as to why we're all so afraid to say it.

We're not afraid to say it, but we're reluctant to because people like you assign religion as THE reason, thereby justifying prejudice against innocent Muslims.

Again, I'm not saying that all Islam is responsible. But my response was in response to ToadBrother's politically correct tripe, insisting that Islam wasn't even indirectly associated with the incident.

Splitting hairs. You said Islam is responsible. Although I concur that TB overstated the case if he said that.

[Guest American Woman]

Co-sign.

I was in Egypt recently and many folks there were able to distinguish between Judaism and the actions of the state of Israel.

If they're sophisticated enough to make that distinction I don't really think folks in the US or Canada have any excuse to not recognize that Al-Qaeda and Islam are not one in the same.

I'm curious. Who here, including the woman in the quote you are responding to, doesn't recognize that al Qaeda and Islam are not the same??

[Michael Hardner]

Islam itself had nothing to do with 9/11.

At some point we will start arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin... BUT... religion is a co-factor in that it figures into the culture and large global political factors that some use to achieve their goals.

[GostHacked]

At some point we will start arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin... BUT... religion is a co-factor in that it figures into the culture and large global political factors that some use to achieve their goals.

It's a co-factor here in North America as well.

[Michael Hardner]

It's a co-factor here in North America as well.

Ok, we're on the same page then. I draw the line at saying it has no effect, no relation for obviously it was a factor. But not the cause.

[sharkman]

And if you were a radical feminist, you'd be saying it was because they were all men. What else did they have in common ?

Come on Michael, I'm trolling? Try again, I simply responded to your above comment with this:

Let's see, they all think America is the great Satan, we are all infidels who need to bow the knee to Islam or face the sword, Jews are pigs, homosexuals are an abomination, women are property... I'd go on but I know you are not interested in negative comments about Muslims. Too bad they keep trying to bomb American cities, eh?

It's obvious to me anyway that we were both talking about the terrorists.

It's sad to me to see some of the defenders of Islam terrorists when faced with Catholic or Christian issues. These same tolerant open minded people make no such distinctions between moderates and fundamentalists in those cases.

Edited May 11, 2010 by sharkman

[DogOnPorch]

In this spirit, I'm all for the construction of a massive neo-gothic cathedral complete with all the flying arches, gargoyles, tombs and what-not in downtown Mecca.

DogOnPorch: What? What's the problem?

Mullah: It is forbidden.

DogOnPorch: Ah...right. Forgot...

Edited May 11, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[GostHacked]

Ok, we're on the same page then. I draw the line at saying it has no effect, no relation for obviously it was a factor. But not the cause.

Indeed. We have the mis-notion that the chruch and state are separated (Canada / US). They are still one in the same, but over hear we are given the illusion that they are separate.

Dogonporch

In this spirit, I'm all for the construction of a massive neo-gothic cathedral complete with all the flying arches, gargoyles, tombs and what-not in downtown Mecca.

Was the WTC considered a religious site at all?

Sharkman

It's sad to me to see some of the defenders of Islam terrorists when faced with Catholic or Christian issues. These same tolerant open minded people make no such distinctions between moderates and fundamentalists in those cases.

Most of us can see and shout out the differences. There are the select few who can't and this is just one reason we term them 'extremists'.

[DogOnPorch]

GH: Was the WTC considered a religious site at all?

Ask someone who lost a loved-one.

[GostHacked]

Ask someone who lost a loved-one.

Ah so the answer is no.

[DogOnPorch]

Ah so the answer is no.

Did I say that? No...

I said: Ask someone who lost a loved-one.

Ask them if they think a huge mosque is a boffo idea for the 9-11 Ground Zero area. Fuck religion.

[Guest American Woman]

Quote

GH: Was the WTC considered a religious site at all?

Ask someone who lost a loved-one.

So evidently we have to respect their religious sites, but they don't have to respect our memorial sites. It would appear as if religion is more meaningful, more deserving of respect, than peoples' lives.

[DogOnPorch]

So evidently we have to respect their religious sites, but they don't have to respect our memorial sites. It would appear as if religion is more meaningful, more deserving of respect, than peoples' lives.

Islam 'knows' it is right and the rest are 'wrong'. Why show respect?

[Guest American Woman]

Did I say that? No...

I said: Ask someone who lost a loved-one.

Ask them if they think a huge mosque is a boffo idea for the 9-11 Ground Zero area. Fuck religion.

What everyone is ignoring is the fact that the site wouldn't even be available for the Mosque but for the destructive/murderous actions of other Muslims. Seems to me anyone with any empathy at all could see the insensitivity of not only building a Mosque there under these circumstances, but considering coinciding the event with the tenth anniversary of 9-11.

[DogOnPorch]

What everyone is ignoring is the fact that the site wouldn't even be available for the Mosque but for the destructive/murderous actions of other Muslims. Seems to me anyone with any empathy at all could see the insensitivity of not only building a Mosque there under these circumstances, but considering coinciding the event with the tenth anniversary of 9-11.

Good point, AW. I can't help but notice the NYC sky-line has changed...for some reason.

If my wife died in the WTC terror attck, I'd be VERY pissed that the religion that fueled the terrorist's actions was given such prominence at the very site of her death. A slap in the face as you mention. Combined with Islam's lack of fair play when it comes to other POVs on imaginary sky-gods, it all adds up to a unappetizing situation. Go build the thing elsewhere.

[GostHacked]

Did I say that? No...

I said: Ask someone who lost a loved-one.

Ask them if they think a huge mosque is a boffo idea for the 9-11 Ground Zero area. Fuck religion.

Hey I agree with your sentiments on religion, all religions. Mecca is a religious site, the WTC was not. It's not to say I agree with the decision to put up the mosque at the WTC site.

AW

So evidently we have to respect their religious sites, but they don't have to respect our memorial sites. It would appear as if religion is more meaningful, more deserving of respect, than peoples' lives.

I will say it is disrespectful to even consider building on the WTC site, but this it seems to be the old Burlington Coat Factory building two blocks away. Was not the target of 9/11, and in the end I really don't see a problem with it. I can see a petition put in place or some kind of protest to prevent this from being built, I guess if people put up enough of a stink about it, the approved plan can be axed.

To me it is a bad idea simply because of the backlash people attending this mosque would endure from surviving family members who lost a loved one on 9/11. Even if it is attacked after it is built, it won't be by american moderates.

[GostHacked]

Seems to me anyone with any empathy at all could see the insensitivity of not only building a Mosque there under these circumstances, but considering coinciding the event with the tenth anniversary of 9-11.

It is a bad decision on their part to start it on that day. I agree with you.

On a slightly lighter note, can we ban building Catholic churches near schools?

[DogOnPorch]

GH...I'd argue the the WTC site is now a 'religious site' to those involved.

In this light, I'd like to erect a huge billboard promoting 50 Cent's latest ode to the gun over Jane Creba's grave. Are you with me?