nicky10013 Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/nation-in-mourning-after-polish-president-95-others-killed-in-crash/article1530087/ What a terrible tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 What a shock that must be to the nation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/nation-in-mourning-after-polish-president-95-others-killed-in-crash/article1530087/ What a terrible tragedy. No kidding. They were something like 88 government officials of one kind or another on the plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 (edited) Sad. His party is a nationalist conservative one. I wish we had a strong conservative party like he led, here in Canada. Hopefully the Polish people are not brainwashed by the socialists who will be coming out of the woodwork now to prey on their emotions at this most trying time. They are a wily lot, be on guard my Polish friends and keep voting properly and you'll ensure your freedom from the socialism from the USSR that you escaped. The socialists wish to plunge you back into that. No kidding. They were something like 88 government officials of one kind or another on the plane. 95 the article said. Edited April 10, 2010 by Mr.Canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Sad. His party is a nationalist conservative one. I wish we had a strong conservative party like he led, here in Canada. Hopefully the Polish people are not brainwashed by the socialists who will be coming out of the woodwork now to prey on their emotions at this most trying time. They are a wily lot, be on guard my Polish friends and keep voting properly and you'll ensure your freedom from the socialism from the USSR that you escaped. The socialists wish to plunge you back into that. The socialists won Poland its independence. Remember the Solidarity Movement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 The socialists won Poland its independence. Remember the Solidarity Movement? No, he was still wearing diapers then. Oh, forgot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 (edited) I'm wondering if there's been any talk or suggestion that this plane was brought down... Kaczynski was no friend of Putin, that's for sure, or Russia in general. He has been harshly critical of Russia and its ambitions for empire and was pretty outspoken about Russian behaviour towards Georgia. Edited April 10, 2010 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 ToadBrother, on 10 April 2010 - 10:18 AM, said: No kidding. They were something like 88 government officials of one kind or another on the plane.95 the article said. 96 people were onboard, and all were killed, but according to the article, 88 were part of the Polish state delegation. I'm wondering if there's been any talk or suggestion that this plane was brought down... Kaczynski was no friend of Putin, that's for sure, or Russia in general. According to the article, air traffic controllers suggested that the plane land elsewhere because of the fog, but the crew made the decision to land in Smolensk anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Sad. His party is a nationalist conservative one. I wish we had a strong conservative party like he led, here in Canada. Hopefully the Polish people are not brainwashed by the socialists who will be coming out of the woodwork now to prey on their emotions at this most trying time. They are a wily lot, be on guard my Polish friends and keep voting properly and you'll ensure your freedom from the socialism from the USSR that you escaped. The socialists wish to plunge you back into that. 95 the article said. Sad inded. For the country, for the family. The political orientation of the party in power has nothing to do with how tragic of a lostt it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 (edited) I'm wondering if there's been any talk or suggestion that this plane was brought down... Kaczynski was no friend of Putin, that's for sure, or Russia in general. He has been harshly critical of Russia and its ambitions for empire and was pretty outspoken about Russian behaviour towards Georgia. The Polish president's powers are pretty limited. If you wanted to create a real political crisis, go after the Prime Minister. It would be like shooting the GG out of the sky. Yeah, it would suck, but business would go on. Take out the PM, and well, there are numerous ramifications. I think this is just a real tragic accident. Russia must feel this pretty keenly, having a foreign head of state die on their soil. Edited April 10, 2010 by ToadBrother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 The delegation was on the way to commemorate the massacre of thousands of Polish officers and civilians by Stalin's secret police henchmen early in the WWII. Later on, Poland was "liberated" by USSR with installation of friendly communist regime to follow. And now this terrible tragedy. I'm sure both Poland and Russia are reeling in shock. They'll need much courage to continue on the path of reconciliation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 POWER vacumes are dangerous - keep an eye on Putin...cut throat opportunism lurks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 I like Putin. Russia for Russians attitude is right on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 (edited) I like Putin. Russia for Russians attitude is right on. Yeah that's why Russia is so prosperous now... Oh wait, a rapidly falling population, one of the shortest life expectancies of any country that could try to claim to be "first world", massive crime, corruption, and huge emigration of all of Russia's most gifted minds. The history of Russia is basically one never-ending train wreck, and the current government is no exception. Edited April 10, 2010 by Bonam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xul Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 (edited) The plane is a Soviet-made Tu-154. Its maiden flight was in 1968 and the plane which crashed has been in service for over 20 years. Tu-154 was produced about 1000 and 66 somehow have crashed down. In China, airways once bought about 30 planes from Russia in 1990s, after 2 crashed, they had to decommission them several years later. In China, the preputation of Tu-154 is just like the Chinese pronouncation of its name---"let me die" . Though the crash may mainly be caused by fog, but its Brezhnev-timed inaccurate and maybe malfunctioned altimeter and avionics may also contribute some factors since some witnesses said the plane hit the top of a tree first before it crashed. I read from some Chinese media that Polish government and parliament have been planning to replace the presidential plane for a long time but the replacement was delayed for lacking funds. Edited April 11, 2010 by xul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 I like Putin. Russia for Russians attitude is right on. The guy was the former head of the KGB. Whatever else he is, he ain't a nice man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky10013 Posted April 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 The plane is a Soviet-made Tu-154. Its maiden flight was in 1968 and the plane which crashed has been in service for over 20 years. Tu-154 was produced about 1000 and 66 somehow have crashed down. In China, airways once bought about 30 planes from Russia in 1990s, after 2 crashed, they had to decommission them several years later. In China, the preputation of Tu-154 is just like the Chinese pronouncation of its name---"let me die" . Though the crash may mainly be caused by fog, but its Brezhnev-timed inaccurate and maybe malfunctioned altimeter and avionics may also contribute some factors since some witnesses said the plane hit the top of a tree first before it crashed. I read from some Chinese media that Polish government and parliament have been planning to replace the presidential plane for a long time but the replacement was delayed for lacking funds. On CNN they said the plane recieved a complete overhaul last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky10013 Posted April 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 POWER vacumes are dangerous - keep an eye on Putin...cut throat opportunism lurks. There are no power vacuums in Russia. Putin has most of it. There's speculation that the only person Putin may be beholden to is Yuri Luzhkov, the mayor of Moscow. At the federal level, the only person who matters at all is Putin. Medvedev is nothing but a lap dog. With Medvedev, Putin now controls every aspect of the federal government: the duma and the presidency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 The plane is a Soviet-made Tu-154. Its maiden flight was in 1968 and the plane which crashed has been in service for over 20 years. The Airbus A310-300 that the Prime Minister and Governor General fly on are over 20 years old now. I haven't heard of any real calls for them to be replaced because of age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky10013 Posted April 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 The Airbus A310-300 that the Prime Minister and Governor General fly on are over 20 years old now. I haven't heard of any real calls for them to be replaced because of age. Yep. I think people get the jitters when one hears the phrase "soviet made." In reality, those planes are probably just as safe as the one's made here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 (edited) Yep. I think people get the jitters when one hears the phrase "soviet made." In reality, those planes are probably just as safe as the one's made here. Nope. I'm surprised the were still using a Tupolev. LOT, the national airline doesn't operate any Soviet built aircraft anymore. Their jet fleet is all Boeing and Embraer. Edited April 11, 2010 by Wilber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 A-310 Cockpit TU-154 Cockpit Two aircraft from very different generations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 A-310 Cockpit TU-154 Cockpit Two aircraft from very different generations. From what I've heard, the cockpit in this TU 154 didn't look old. It had just undergone extensive modifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 From what I've heard, the cockpit in this TU 154 didn't look old. It had just undergone extensive modifications. Maybe that was the problem, something in the modifications went wrong. No doubt there will be an investigation. A presidents plane usually gets very thorough safety inspections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 (edited) From what I've heard, the cockpit in this TU 154 didn't look old. It had just undergone extensive modifications. What you are seeing in Wilbur's links (Tu-154 vs. A-310) is the absence of a "glass cockpit" in the former. This in and of itself is not a deathtrap sentence, but it is a an idication of the Tu's state for modernization, redundancy, and reliability for the avionics suite. If this is true for other airframe subsystems, then we are led to further questions about maintenance and service overhauls, which is even a problem for airlines in the "West" with more modern aircraft. I personally would not not mind flying in a Soviet era built and maintained Tu-154, but anything after that is a crapshoot because of the organizations and governments supporting the fleet. The Tu-154 has an average hull loss rate for the approximately 1,000 built since entering service in 1972. Edited April 11, 2010 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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