Talking peace with the Taliban

[DogOnPorch]

Saddam had used chemical warfare against the kurds. Saddam did not have WMD capability. The first is enough reason to depose him, IMHO, but the real motives and justification were less than pure.

Chemical weapons...in particular VX...are Weapons of Mass Destruction. Chemical weapons were used during the Iran Iraq War and against the Kurds as you mention.

What's next here? Chemical weapon use during WW1 was a 'pack of lies'?

[dizzy]

Chemical weapons...in particular VX...are Weapons of Mass Destruction. Chemical weapons were used during the Iran Iraq War and against the Kurds as you mention.

What's next here? Chemical weapon use during WW1 was a 'pack of lies'?

Not at all. But the weapon capacity in Iraq demonstrated no risk to America, NATO or their allies. The reasons to jump into Iraq were less compelling than either maintaining force capacity in afghanistan or jumping to a place where active genocide was in play, like the Sudan.

[DogOnPorch]

Not at all. But the weapon capacity in Iraq demonstrated no risk to America, NATO or their allies. The reasons to jump into Iraq were less compelling than either maintaining force capacity in afghanistan or jumping to a place where active genocide was in play, like the Sudan.

Israel and Arab Gulf states beg to differ. If you recall, Israelis huddled in chemical weapons shelters with atropine auto-injectors attached to them for days while the SCUDs fell. No chemical warheads were used...but Saddam had chemical warheads in stock...thus all the panic.

Edited February 5, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[dizzy]

Israel and Arab Gulf states beg to differ. If you recall, Israelis huddled in chemical weapons shelters with atropine auto-injectors attached to them for days while the SCUDs fell. No chemical warheads were used...but Saddam had chemical warheads in stock...thus all the panic.

I do remember. But I'll refer back to my original point, which was that there were good reasons to depose Saddam but that, in that moment in history, these were not greater than the need to maintain operational intensity in afghanistan or to mobilize to deal with an active genocide in the Sudan.

[DogOnPorch]

I do remember. But I'll refer back to my original point, which was that there were good reasons to depose Saddam but that, in that moment in history, these were not greater than the need to maintain operational intensity in afghanistan or to mobilize to deal with an active genocide in the Sudan.

Preaching to the choir, dizzy. I say the West should go after all of them.

[dizzy]

Preaching to the choir, dizzy. I say the West should go after all of them.

I agree. If only we had the resources. until then, we've got to find a way to focus and prioritize.

[Born Free]

It isnt really funny but you guys are behaving like this is all a Wii game. Edited February 5, 2010 by Born Free

[wyly]

It isnt really funny but you guys are behaving like this is all a Wii game.

yup it's all a video game no real people are actually getting killed...

[bush_cheney2004]

I agree. Powells story at the UN included a whole bunch of those "best lies" you refer to.

The Allies "lied" to the Germans about D-Day too....shame!

[Born Free]

The Allies "lied" to the Germans about D-Day too....shame!

.... and the dish ran away with the spoon...

[DogOnPorch]

It isnt really funny but you guys are behaving like this is all a Wii game.

It's right up there with your denial of historical events.

wyly: yup it's all a video game no real people are actually getting killed...

Those are your words...remember that.

[Michael Hardner]

i know it sounds far fetched, all she wanted to do was honor her fathers death by going to school....and while i sat there watching her devour my lunch listening to her story with no hands and the skills of a surgern she was done before the rest of us...And here i thought i had problems , here i thought my only problem was to survive the foot patrol survive the tour and get back to my family....and here was a 8 year old girl, who had it all figured out, she forgave those who disfigured her, killed her father....and only wanted to go to school educate herself and make a better life for her and her family....YA it left me with a few tears, and a promise, if i could prevent this from happening just once then all my blood sweat and tears would be worth it..What i still have not been able to do is forgive those that have done this and many other crimes again'st thier own people..

Not at all, not far fetched. I'm thankful to you, and to MLW to be able to be able to read this post of yours.

As far as my questions - the briefings, and so on, with regards to progress. I guess this question is for anybody here - is there any type of site that provides metrics for how the Afghan force is doing ? I'm thinking reports, graphs, talking about the size of their force, training, the scope of their current responsibilities.

[dizzy]

It isnt really funny but you guys are behaving like this is all a Wii game.

Who is?

[dizzy]

Not at all, not far fetched. I'm thankful to you, and to MLW to be able to be able to read this post of yours.

As far as my questions - the briefings, and so on, with regards to progress. I guess this question is for anybody here - is there any type of site that provides metrics for how the Afghan force is doing ? I'm thinking reports, graphs, talking about the size of their force, training, the scope of their current responsibilities.

It's hard to measure the scope and success of the ANA and ANP because they still primarily interoperate with NATO forces and police.

I don't think they have anything direct to your question, but a good general resource on afghanistan matters is the Senlis Council.

http://www.icosgroup.net/modules/reports

[Michael Hardner]

It's hard to measure the scope and success of the ANA and ANP because they still primarily interoperate with NATO forces and police.

I don't think they have anything direct to your question, but a good general resource on afghanistan matters is the Senlis Council.

http://www.icosgroup.net/modules/reports

As a general resource, I don't think that site suffices. Their overview on Iraq seems outdated, and leads to a proposal for a new global security model - not any kind of perspective on what's happening, so ...

[dizzy]

As a general resource, I don't think that site suffices. Their overview on Iraq seems outdated, and leads to a proposal for a new global security model - not any kind of perspective on what's happening, so ...

I haven't read any of their research on Iraq, only Afghanistan. They are a think tank, not pure research, so their work does reflect upon particular working suppositions. But they were were talking about the problem of poppy clearance on domestic security a year before anyone else. And they also were the first talking about the Hwy 1. They've got a good lens on development issues.

[Guest American Woman]

I can't speak for all soldiers, but i will comment on our past missions with or under the UN, for me Bosina was a nightmare...Watching war crimes take place only to record them and report them to Higher...something that is very hard to do is watch while you know you have the training , wpns, and equipment to save lives...but can't...very frustrating....In Afghan that was all changed under NATO we had the ability to stop war crimes, we could use our training , wpns and equipment to save lives...to push the bad guys back...it meant i guess for me i could do some good , and when the bad guys needed a bitch slap, they got it..

I'm glad to hear that your hands are no longer tied the way they apparently were in the past. I know so many of you have the desire to do as much good as you can for the Afghans while you can, and I find that so admirable and encouraging. Thank you.

I told this story a few times, on my first tour, during a rather long foot patrol, we stopped for lunch, i noticed a young girl staring at us, so i invited her over to share my lunch....through our translator...i learned alot about the afghan people that day, you see she had her hands cut off by taliban soldiers, and her father was killed in front of her....her crime was going to school...

i know it sounds far fetched, all she wanted to do was honor her fathers death by going to school....and while i sat there watching her devour my lunch listening to her story with no hands and the skills of a surgern she was done before the rest of us...And here i thought i had problems , here i thought my only problem was to survive the foot patrol survive the tour and get back to my family....and here was a 8 year old girl, who had it all figured out, she forgave those who disfigured her, killed her father....and only wanted to go to school educate herself and make a better life for her and her family....YA it left me with a few tears, and a promise, if i could prevent this from happening just once then all my blood sweat and tears would be worth it..What i still have not been able to do is forgive those that have done this and many other crimes again'st thier own people..

Such an unbelievable story. Thank you for sharing. It's impossible to imagine what some people go through in this world, but my heart goes out to that little girl and I can only hope she is successful in her courageous journey.

I've read Greg Mortenson's Three Cups of Tea and have started Stones Into Schools, and the drive and determination and courage of some of the women and girls, after all they've been through, regarding freedoms and experiences that we take for granted, is really something to look up to. I'm really glad that Three Cups of Tea is now required reading for all officers enrolled in counterinsurgency courses at the Pentagon. To me is shows that it's not all about "shock and awe."

Again, thank you for sharing. I always find your posts most informative.

[Army Guy]

hear i found these on the CF web site you'll find ANA projects on both the ISAF site, and JTF afghan site, although they are small timbits of info pieced together they may provide a larger picture...

My linkwww.comfec-cefcom.