Lifestyles Of The Rich And Famous

[blueblood]

comparing Canada and Venezuela...geez be serious...

Oh but I am, both countries are floating on oil that has been utilized at about the same time. One has good government and friendly business environment, one is ultra socialist and has a horrible business environment. This is why nutso socialism is an epic fail.

Hell Dubai doesn't even have oil and they're still in better shape than Venezuela debt crisis and all!

[Alta4ever]

comparing Canada and Venezuela...geez be serious...

Both oil producers, opposing views on taxation, seems apt.

[Smallc]

Actually, as a percentage of the economy, the only source I can find shows that Venezuela's taxes are lower than Canada's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP

Edited December 8, 2009 by Smallc

[blueblood]

Actually, as a percentage of the economy, the only source I can find shows that Venezuela's taxes are lower than Canada's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP

Having State owned oil companies will skew those numbers, case in point Kuwait, Quatar, and Saudi Arabia.

Try opening up a golf course in Venezuela and see how that goes over...

The problem with State owned oil is that nobody except the government makes money, and nobody gets rich. It's such an inefficient and horrible way of developing an oil industry.

The average joe in Venezuela might not pay much for taxes, but government is very intrusive there. For a country floating on oil depending on big government, it has resulted in a massive failure.

[Smallc]

I wasn't really saying anything good about Venezuela, I was just saying that they have surprisingly low taxes.

[Michael Hardner]

Complete nonsense.

Why? Its already been done, several times, in the 20's, in the 60's, in the 80's, and even this decade. During Reagan's terms, the across the board 35% income tax rate on all tax brackets led to an increase in revenue to the government in almost every year, except a couple, which were the bottom of the late 70's/early 80's recession.

This is true, from what I've read - but I'd like to dig down a little deeper as to what the conditions are. Capital seeks out the maximum return, so where was the capital before taxes were cut ? Offshore ? In bonds ?

[Oleg Bach]

Yeah I imagine the WTO/IMF bashes are a real hoot too.

Hundreds of spoiled brats stitting together in the lap of luxury creating tons of garbage and leaving a stampede of huge so-called carbon foot prints are going to work out how to curb climate distruction - How about staying home - that would be a start.

[bjre]

Yeah I imagine the WTO/IMF bashes are a real hoot too.

IMF/WTO itself are evils

The Globalizer Who Came In From the Cold: Or How the IMF and US Treasury Fix Elections, Stir Up Riots, Kill, and Scoop Assets With Interchangeable Masks...

A pattern emerges. There are lots of losers in this system but one clear winner: the Western banks and US Treasury, making the big bucks off this crazy new international capital churn.

...

In the Opium Wars, the West used military blockades to force open markets for their unbalanced trade. Today, the World Bank can order a financial blockade just as effective - and sometimes just as deadly.

...

And they don't work. Black Africa's productivity under the guiding hand of IMF structural "assistance" has gone to hell in a handbag. Did any nation avoid this fate? Yes, said Stiglitz, identifying Botswana. Their trick? "They told the IMF to go packing."

http://www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/

http://centurean2.wordpress.com/2009/10/08/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold-or-how-the-imf-and-us-treasury-fix-elections-stir-up-riots-kill-and-scoop-assets-with-interchangeable-masks/

[Shady]

How about staying home - that would be a start.

Good point. Have they never heard of net-meeting? Or at the very least, hold the conference at a location that doesn't require everyone to fly there.

[Pliny]

Time to study economics eyeball.

I've been telling him that for nigh onto a year now! He keeps reverting to the simplicities of a Marxist "Robin Hood" economy - from each according to their ability and to each according to their need. Which never explains what happens when the State can totally seize production and make everyone needy.

[eyeball]

...in the 20's, in the 60's, in the 80's, and even this decade. During Reagan's terms, the across the board 35% income tax rate on all tax brackets led to an increase in revenue to the government in almost every year, except a couple, which were the bottom of the late 70's/early 80's recession.

That's groovy, but I said I'd like to see a forensic audit that includes the GPI's of these countries along with a full cost accounting and balance sheet that squares the drawdown of their natural capital (including sink resources) with the growth of their economies.

By the way, why is Reagan's country almost bankrupt now? Let me guess...it was them god damn socialists again wasn't? When oh when will the government finally do something about these horrible people?

[eyeball]

I've been telling him that for nigh onto a year now! He keeps reverting to the simplicities of a Marxist "Robin Hood" economy - from each according to their ability and to each according to their need. Which never explains what happens when the State can totally seize production and make everyone needy.

No, I keep pointing out things like the relationship between natural capital and human capital and you just or or some such thing.

[JB Globe]

Must be nice...

Copenhagen climate summit: 1,200 limos, 140 private planes and caviar wedges

As I'm sure you know already, world leaders travel in private planes for security reasons. I'd much rather they pay for off-setting the carbon costs than fly passenger aircraft and potentially fall victim to a security breach.

As for the limos - any car that is driven by a chauffeur is a limo, such as Obama's Cadillac sedan or even airport "limos" - we're not talking about stretch limos here.

As for the menus of the hotels - I would have hoped that they would have tried to be a little more conscious of this, but it appears they're trying to make some money off of all the hype. Keep in mind that world leaders will have the opportunity to avoid purchasing the more expensive items mentioned, and I hope they will.

[Moonbox]

That's groovy, but I said I'd like to see a forensic audit that includes the GPI's of these countries along with a full cost accounting and balance sheet that squares the drawdown of their natural capital (including sink resources) with the growth of their economies.

Such an audit wouldn't help you prove your point. Your logic, as usual, is totally borked. We were talking about taxes. There is AMPLE history of economies growing as taxes decrease. As far as I know there's no history of them growing when taxes decrease. The depletion of natural resources really has nothing to do with the equation.

By the way, why is Reagan's country almost bankrupt now? Let me guess...it was them god damn socialists again wasn't? When oh when will the government finally do something about these horrible people?

Reagen's country is not even close to insolvent. They'll have to print money and reduce spending drastically but the problem is due to a GREAT number of factors. Tax rates had NOTHING to do with the sub-prime fiasco nor with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The situation in the USA can be blamed on everyone, rights and lefts included. The ignorance and stupidity of the masses and the arrogance of the rich both combined to create a truly impressive debacle.

[Argus]

Reagen's country is not even close to insolvent. They'll have to print money and reduce spending drastically but the problem is due to a GREAT number of factors. Tax rates had NOTHING to do with the sub-prime fiasco nor with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

True. But neither is responsible for the massive budget deficit they'd had for the last some years. Tax cuts were responsible for that. The US had even managed to balance the books at last - until Bush slashed taxes without cutting spending.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

All I really have to say about the rich folks is ....so what? Those rich people and business's don't pay the lions share of taxes, there are to few of them. Its the little guys and the mom and pop operations that pay all the taxes because there are so many of them. If our society was serious about increasing the net worth of citizens it would not look the way it does now. Its not as if you raise taxes on the top 1 percent that it will make any real difference.

There have always been kings and queens and there a;ways will be. There has always been poor folks and there always will be. Any real gains for our society can only mean one thing, and that is to raise the standard of living for all.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Now here is an interesting approach.

CBC News

Edited December 9, 2009 by Jerry J. Fortin

[Sir Bandelot]

Any real gains for our society can only mean one thing, and that is to raise the standard of living for all.

But for the people in the top 1%, what is there left to gain for them? They're already at the top, how much higher can we raise their standard of living? Not much. But clearly much more can be done for the poor and the middle class, which raises their standard of living to approach that of the rich. And they don't like that, you're encroaching on their territory. Those pristine beach resorts and fancy restaurants are no fun, when they're full of the clamouring noisy nouveau riche.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The intent is to raise the standard of living. That doesn't mean any one segment or demographic, but instead that of all citizens.

[Sir Bandelot]

The intent is to raise the standard of living. That doesn't mean any one segment or demographic, but instead that of all citizens.

Yeah I know, that point was clear. But I doubt that it can ever happen, because people won't ALLOW it to happen. There's nice theories, and then there's human nature, as evidenced by several thousand years of history.

[Sir Bandelot]

I gotta admit though, it sounds like a heckuva party!

Yeah right. All sorts of royalty going there too. Lets hope it's for more than just the free caviar.

Was reading that this event will produce an estimated 40,000 tons of greenhouse gases. Thats as much as the entire country of Switzerland in a year. It certainly undermines any perception of real concern or validity. I wonder if any of the big shots giving fancy speeches there will address this issue?

[eyeball]

Such an audit wouldn't help you prove your point. Your logic, as usual, is totally borked. We were talking about taxes. There is AMPLE history of economies growing as taxes decrease. As far as I know there's no history of them growing when taxes decrease. The depletion of natural resources really has nothing to do with the equation.

Really? Exactly what is it that your economy is supposed to base itself on?

Reagen's country is not even close to insolvent. They'll have to print money and reduce spending drastically but the problem is due to a GREAT number of factors. Tax rates had NOTHING to do with the sub-prime fiasco nor with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The situation in the USA can be blamed on everyone, rights and lefts included. The ignorance and stupidity of the masses and the arrogance of the rich both combined to create a truly impressive debacle.

I wasn't taking about the tax rate so much as pointing out the flawed logic of believing that cutting income will somehow magically increase revenues or visa versa. The same sort of flawed thinking underlies the belief that depleting natural resources has nothing to do with growing an economy.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Government spending focuses on their credit rating and access to capital. From there spending is determined on a department to department basis. The bell that hasn't been rung yet is the debt to asset ratio or GDP to debt ratio. Keep your ears and eyes open, there is a finite limit to spending. Bankers will carry you into bankruptcy and beyond as long as you keep paying them. The line in the sand is the ability to make payments.

[Moonbox]

Really? Exactly what is it that your economy is supposed to base itself on?

Value.

I wasn't taking about the tax rate so much as pointing out the flawed logic of believing that cutting income will somehow magically increase revenues or visa versa.

There's nothing magical about it. Lowering taxes is an investment. It's almost like investing in an RSP. You lower your income in the SHORT term but the money that you put in potentially grows. Lowering taxes encourages investment. As far as taxation goes, the idea is that while you might lower income for the next couple of years, lower taxes will in the future encourage a larger tax base and thus higher revenue. It's certainly not a simple equation in that y-z=x as there are tons of different things to consider but there is merit to it.

The same sort of flawed thinking underlies the belief that depleting natural resources has nothing to do with growing an economy.

Don't be dumb. The use of natural resources are fundamental to any economy. They're there to be used. You can't 'audit' our economy and then subtract from its growth the depletion of our resources. That wouldn't make sense.

[Argus]

I can't help noticing there isn't much talk going on in this place about the environment, or about global warming. The talk is all about money, about how much those evil rich capitalist nations should be paying to the poor, downtrodden, long-suffering third world "holes", whether the aforementioned holes ought to be expected to actually do anything for that money.

Apparently the suggestion they ought to be expected to do something has outraged much of the third world. "Give us the money and shut up!" is the cry.

Oh, and the Chinese are angry at the suggestion that the world might want to verify some of the emission reports the Chinese are reporting. Like, if you can't trust a brutal, corrupt Communist dictatorship to honestly report information who CAN you trust?