Muslim Honor Killing in Kingston

[benny]

What is beyond me is how come an idiot like you is still at the party.

Argus is the third "top" poster quantity-wise here!

[CANADIEN]

The problem is it wasn't just a quadruple homicide Smallc. It was an honor killing carried out by family members who follow radical Islamic tenants. Why is that so wrong to say?

Thank you for letting us know that the case has already been tried.

[benny]

Thank you for letting us know that the case has already been tried.

He lets us know his prejudice.

[Mr.Canada]

I've stated quite clearly from the beginning that it is Radical Islam that is to blame. I have no problem whatsoever with regular, everyday Muslims. As a matter of fact Muslims have been in Canada since before Confederation but we're only now hearing of honor killings and extreme Islam now because of it's growing popularity around the globe.

The problem is that Radical Islam is growing in popularity in many countries of the middle East and Northern Africa. In turn this is being exported to the Westernized nations spanning the globe which currently already have sizable Muslim populations.

Radical Islam is growing and if some here don't wish to entertain those thoughts then I'm sorry but you're being really quite naive. Sticking your head in the sand and proclaiming " not our Canadian Muslims" doesn't make it so. There is nothing prejudicial at all about me making statements such as these, at least not to me.

These are not only my but others observations as well. So believe what ever you wish to believe and I'll do likewise. To me it is just impossible to state that Muslim's aren't coming to Canada and performing honor killings which is what is being done here but c'est la vie, say what you want.

Edited July 24, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[benny]

I've stated quite clearly from the beginning that it is Radical Islam that is to blame. I have no problem whatsoever with regular, everyday Muslims.

This is like blaming coffee for containing caffeine!

[CANADIEN]

To put it another way. How comfortable would the Left be if we brought over tens of thousands of members of the KKK every year, complete with their attitudes about blacks and Jews?

I won't speak for others, but last time I checked we do not have a section in the criminal codes about privately held opinions. So, as long as they respect the laws of this country, i would even, regretfully, defend the right of racists to become Canadian citizens.

That being said, since YOU raised the issue, I wonder how YOU would welcome them, considering you share with the KKK some similar opinions about immigrants, and you fondness for a time when your neighbourhood was whiter.

Edited July 25, 2009 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

I've stated quite clearly from the beginning that it is Radical Islam that is to blame. I have no problem whatsoever with regular, everyday Muslims.

I would actually be tempted to believe that if you had actually stated that opinion from the start. Or if there were not past stetements of yours, like saying that you would not care if Muslims and Jews all killed each others, and that at least it would mean more conversions.

Especially when you try to portray "honour killings" as more frequent than they actually are, or when you claim against any logic that people who do not share your paranoia are denying or avoiding the issue.

Edited July 25, 2009 by CANADIEN

[lily]

I've stated quite clearly from the beginning that it is Radical Islam that is to blame. I have no problem whatsoever with regular, everyday Muslims. As a matter of fact Muslims have been in Canada since before Confederation but we're only now hearing of honor killings and extreme Islam now because of it's growing popularity around the globe.

The problem is that Radical Islam is growing in popularity in many countries of the middle East and Northern Africa. In turn this is being exported to the Westernized nations spanning the globe which currently already have sizable Muslim populations.

Radical Islam is growing and if some here don't wish to entertain those thoughts then I'm sorry but you're being really quite naive. Sticking your head in the sand and proclaiming " not our Canadian Muslims" doesn't make it so. There is nothing prejudicial at all about me making statements such as these, at least not to me.

These are not only my but others observations as well. So believe what ever you wish to believe and I'll do likewise. To me it is just impossible to state that Muslim's aren't coming to Canada and performing honor killings which is what is being done here but c'est la vie, say what you want.

Yeah... I went back and checked the first page of this thread. You didn't make it clear there that you were referring to Radical Islam... and you couldn't even make it thorugh this post without generalizing all Muslims.

[rabidgoose]

This is like blaming coffee for containing caffeine!

You sir just made me laugh. Thanks.

[CANADIEN]

I just have one question. Why are letting these backward people into Canada in the first place?

They can do all the honor killing's they want in whatever country they happen to be from but once they start doing it in Canada I have a problem with it.

Do we have to wait until one of these Muslims kills a white women who he doesn't know and claims she shamed him in order for any action to occur?

So... Muslim women can be murdered elsewhere, just as long as it does not happen here.

Let's talk about backward attitude, indeed. Let's make sure the discussion includes YOUR backward attitude of treating murder as nothing more than a fodder for your hatred.

BTW, interest you use the term "one of these Muslims". I thought that YOU were only talking about proponent of radical Islam. Or more exactly, that's what you claim you have been doing, and what most people here do not buy.

Edited July 25, 2009 by CANADIEN

[Shady]

Is it really that you're upset by this breach of the forum rules, or is it more because you don't like the content of the article?

-k

Ding ding ding!

You're absolutely right. It's attempted censorship in the guise of "forum rules."

[CANADIEN]

That's because first cousin marriages are commonplace in that culture.

On that note, I read something really strange not too long ago. Apparently one of the busiest air corridors in the world is between some Pakistani village and some mid-size community in England. They continually come back and forth going there to marry youn g girls (cousins) and then bringing them back to England. As well, apparently the honour killing incidence in mid-sized English communities - being overrun by new Muslim arrivals - is unusually high.

That of course, you prove with factual information.

What's more dangerous? A Big Mac in Cairo? or scores of 14-year old girls being thrown off balconies in West Hampshire?

Scores? Mind to quantify that with actual numbers?

[lily]

Scores? Mind to quantify that with actual numbers?

I already asked, and he provided a couple of irrelevant links.

[benny]

You sir just made me laugh. Thanks.

You're very welcome!

[JB Globe]

I've stated quite clearly from the beginning that it is Radical Islam that is to blame. I have no problem whatsoever with regular, everyday Muslims. As a matter of fact Muslims have been in Canada since before Confederation but we're only now hearing of honor killings and extreme Islam now because of it's growing popularity around the globe.

The problem is that Radical Islam is growing in popularity in many countries of the middle East and Northern Africa. In turn this is being exported to the Westernized nations spanning the globe which currently already have sizable Muslim populations.

Radical Islam is growing and if some here don't wish to entertain those thoughts then I'm sorry but you're being really quite naive. Sticking your head in the sand and proclaiming " not our Canadian Muslims" doesn't make it so. There is nothing prejudicial at all about me making statements such as these, at least not to me.

These are not only my but others observations as well. So believe what ever you wish to believe and I'll do likewise. To me it is just impossible to state that Muslim's aren't coming to Canada and performing honor killings which is what is being done here but c'est la vie, say what you want.

Why is it of all the cases in Canada where parents murder their children you only go on these posting blitzes when the case involves a family who is Muslim?

Do the lives of white children not matter to you? Are you racist against white people?

[g_bambino]

honor

I wonder if Mr.Canada could cease spelling "honour" in the American fashion.

[DogOnPorch]

Honor/Honour Killings don't exist....oh wait. Yes they do.

In the UK, murders have sometimes taken place after a family has reacted violently to their son or daughter taking on the trappings of western culture. Killings are often disguised as suicide, fire or an accident.

Police believe there may be as many as 12 honour killings in the UK every year. They will typically occur within Asian and Middle Eastern families when a person is believed to have 'dishonoured' their loved ones.

In 2003 the Metropolitan Police set up a strategic task force to tackle the issue. A specialist unit was given the task of researching honour crimes and 100 murder files spanning the last decade were re-opened in an effort to find common links.

The move followed the killing of a teenage girl in a Kurdish family in London. In 2002, Heshu Yones, 16, was stabbed to death by her father, Abdullah, because he disapproved of her Western dress and Christian boyfriend.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/honourcrimes/c...fhonour_1.shtml

Seems real enough for the Metropol to set up a task force on the matter....'to tackle the issue'.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Honor/Honour Killings don't exist....oh wait. Yes they do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/honourcrimes/c...fhonour_1.shtml

Seems real enough for the Metropol to set up a task force on the matter....'to tackle the issue'.

No one has denied that honour killings exsist.

[DogOnPorch]

No one? We have folks trying to downplay the issue as if it was just a common murder. If you aren't one of them, good for you.

[Michael Hardner]

CANADIEN

QUOTE (Argus @ Jul 24 2009, 09:59 AM) *

gag.

Here's the thing. You can hold a nice, fancy party with silk tableclothes and everyone wearing tuxedos and gowns and sipping the finest champaign from crystal glasses. But if you invite a bunch of grass-skirt wearing savages you're going to have to risk having them occasionally take a dump on the marble floor and wipe their asses with your silk tableclothes.

Now why you insist on bringing grass-skirt wearing savages into the party is beyond me.

What is beyond me is how come an idiot like you is still at the party.

Although I'm arguing beside you, I have to admonish you for insulting Argus like that, which I've reported.

Argus is one of the leading lights of the "other side" if you will and without posters like him and Bush_Cheney this forum would devolve into an echo chamber.

You may disagree with their opinions but you can't deny that they argue them with clear thought, and - I trust - an open mind. I have to believe that both of these posters would change their opinion if the evidence warranted it.

[Michael Hardner]

Mr Canada

I just have one question. Why are letting these backward people into Canada in the first place?

They can do all the honor killing's they want in whatever country they happen to be from but once they start doing it in Canada I have a problem with it.

Do we have to wait until one of these Muslims kills a white women who he doesn't know and claims she shamed him in order for any action to occur?

How do you resolve this opinion with the one below that says: "I have no problem whatsoever with regular, everyday Muslims. " And your post is odious in that you clearly put the murder of a "white woman" as a more serious crime than someone with another skin colour.

I can't make you change your attitudes towards people of colour, so I'll try to explain immigration factually:

Canada needs immigrants to grow economically. One binding force that we immigrants and descendants of immigrants have (and this means Quebecois and Anglos too) is the desire to come here and start anew and build a new life. Muslims have come here under difficult circumstances, retaining strong family bonds and have worked hard, and studied hard to succeed and make Canada better for them and for us.

They are good for Canada.

I've stated quite clearly from the beginning that it is Radical Islam that is to blame. I have no problem whatsoever with regular, everyday Muslims. As a matter of fact Muslims have been in Canada since before Confederation but we're only now hearing of honor killings and extreme Islam now because of it's growing popularity around the globe.

The problem is that Radical Islam is growing in popularity in many countries of the middle East and Northern Africa. In turn this is being exported to the Westernized nations spanning the globe which currently already have sizable Muslim populations.

Radical Islam is growing and if some here don't wish to entertain those thoughts then I'm sorry but you're being really quite naive. Sticking your head in the sand and proclaiming " not our Canadian Muslims" doesn't make it so. There is nothing prejudicial at all about me making statements such as these, at least not to me.

These are not only my but others observations as well. So believe what ever you wish to believe and I'll do likewise. To me it is just impossible to state that Muslim's aren't coming to Canada and performing honor killings which is what is being done here but c'est la vie, say what you want.

We have no evidence that radical Islam is growing. However - I'm going to change my tack on this argument a bit, in order to acknowledge something from your side of the argument: it may be growing. It may also not be growing.

The fact is that we're too afraid of the facts to assess immigration on an objective basis. The dialogue is configured so as to limit debate, because the powers that be don't trust that peoples' attitudes towards [edited]races, religions and the like have improved. The situation now is that any discussion of group differences becomes instantly divisive and the sides become entrenched.

In the absence of catastrophic events that divide people along these group lines, I believe that assimilation will address it. However, if that is the case, then we in Canada are invisibly counting on the US "melting pot" approach to take care of problems moving forwards.

We need to monitor public attitudes towards immigrants in case things start to devolve, and above all we need to continue the dialogue.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Michael Hardner

[CANADIEN]

CANADIEN

Although I'm arguing beside you, I have to admonish you for insulting Argus like that, which I've reported.

Argus is one of the leading lights of the "other side" if you will and without posters like him and Bush_Cheney this forum would devolve into an echo chamber.

You may disagree with their opinions but you can't deny that they argue them with clear thought, and - I trust - an open mind. I have to believe that both of these posters would change their opinion if the evidence warranted it.

The real insult here is actually the way Argus keeps insulting logic and common sense. Including that little piece of drivel about "savages". If calling a spade a spade is gonna get me booted out of here, so be it... Provided of course that those here who have called me an idiot, an imbecile, an half-wit, a traitor, a foreigner, a Nazi, a fascist over the last year and a half be held to the same standard (now, to be stating facts, Argus did not stoop below the third attempt at insult I just mentioned).

Mind you, I do not engage in tit-for-that, in case you were wondering. But when I see someone engage in idiotic statements on a continuous basis, I conclude they're idiots. Constant whining about gays, foreigners, Muslims (to name a few), accompanied by stereotypes and topped by ooutlandish claims and ideas (like "slavery is an idea worth considering" - I am not making that one up) and a regular use of what I would consider personal insults if it was not off the mark is not what i call clear thought.

Now, you are free to believe that you can have nice debates for people who believe you have a birth defect for failing to be governed by prejudice. I've stopped believing in that possibility a long time ago.

PS: You've made your point, I've made mine.

[Michael Hardner]

Auguste

Argus, you make a big deal about "honour killing" but what difference does itreally make? In the end, women get killed.

This is an excellent point.

Argus focuses on "honour killing" as the problem, while culturally prevalent crimes in white society seem to be de-prioritized in his mind. If one such Muslim killing happens a year, as is alleged elsewhere on this thread, but overall Muslims kill less people then where has our discussion taken us ?

We start to see the problem in discussing social differences between groups, in that the biases are impossible to overcome. We see these honour killings as something vile, that reflects an outdated and backwards idea that men "own" women, but seem to accept jealousy killings as an inevitable product of life.

And if we were able to overcome these barriers to discussing group differences, how would the discussion proceed ? I'm trying to imagine such a discussion and it strikes me as having the most chilling attributes of social engineering, of the sort that conservatives themselves abhor.

The imagined Chair of Immigration Review for Identifiable Groups might say:

"If we let such-and-such a group into Canada, then we can expect X wife beatings, Y wife killings and Z killing of infidels, however we will have a decrease of X1 general assaults, X2 general murders and an overall economic benefit of Z2"

That's what would have to happen, and it seems inhuman to me - applying management science to society.

But western societies (North/South America, Western/Eastern Europe - to give very rough geography) are the most civilized on the planet. All things considered, women are the freest and safest in these societies.

I think that our Western society is better overall, as it offers people the choice to engage in the kind of life they want. I believe the separation of church and state allows people better possibilities to follow their goals.

However, you need to remember your terms "freest" "safest" and "civilized" are imbued with your personal culture. These are not absolute truths.

Our civilization offers choice, but that also has led to demystified sexuality and the economic exploitation of the same. For example, many women in the "unsafe" societies might prefer to remain in a society that values modesty and chastity. ( I refer to the quality of chastity, not the offspring of Sonny and Cher)

[Michael Hardner]

CANADIEN

Now, you are free to believe that you can have nice debates for people who believe you have a birth defect for failing to be governed by prejudice. I've stopped believing in that possibility a long time ago.

In that case, why are you spending so much debating with people that you don't think are worth debating ?

I have to believe that Argus argues in good faith, as I do.

In fact, the righties on these boards have changed my mind on some major issues - maybe 2 or 3 times.

[CANADIEN]

I think that our Western society is better overall, as it offers people the choice to engage in the kind of life they want. I believe the separation of church and state allows people better possibilities to follow their goals.

However, you need to remember your terms "freest" "safest" and "civilized" are imbued with your personal culture. These are not absolute truths.

Our civilization offers choice, but that also has led to demystified sexuality and the economic exploitation of the same. For example, many women in the "unsafe" societies might prefer to remain in a society that values modesty and chastity. ( I refer to the quality of chastity, not the offspring of Sonny and Cher)

What makes Western societies better is that they tend to show more respect for the right of the individuals to make decisions that affect them personnally without undue societal or government contraints. Also the rule of law (namely, the notion that noone, and no government, is about the law), and the balance between common good and individual rights.

How ironic it is then that, in the name of protecting Western values, some people are advocating getting away with some of these core values, the rule of law and respect for the individual to name only two of them whenever it suits their fears and or/prejudice.