Hand Sanitizers denied

[Sir Bandelot]

Canada's health minister must apologize on behalf of Health Canada for withholding hand sanitizers from flu-stricken reserves because they contained alcohol, one of Manitoba's grand chiefs said Tuesday.

A representative from the Assembly of First Nations told the committee time was wasted discussing whether it would be appropriate to send the disinfectants to communities battling alcohol addiction.

"If we're going to fight this pandemic flu, we have to do something. Something has to be done now, and not when a virus has spread over the community, you don't wait for that. There should be an immediate apology issued," Garrioch said.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090623/..._hand_sanitizer

According to the article, native communities have been hit quite hard by the swine flu pandemic. It seems stupid to idly sit around debating while the disease spreads. The bureaucrats at Health Canada need a serious shake up. Is this an insult, or are they really just that stupid?

Once upon a time the white man committed genocide, by giving them fire-water. Now...

[BubberMiley]

Though if they inundated the community with alcohol-based products, there would be complaints just as loud that they're commiting genocide by giving firewater now too.

[jdobbin]

Though if they inundated the community with alcohol-based products, there would be complaints just as loud that they're commiting genocide by giving firewater now too.

The Health Sciences Center in Winnipeg routinely has the cartridges stolen where people drink them.

[jdobbin]

Once upon a time the white man committed genocide, by giving them fire-water. Now...

The sanitizers are the equivalent of firewater until they are treated with a formula that makes them undrinkable.

[xul]

I have never heard alcohol can kill virus. Javel water may be an appropriate option, though it hurts men's skin.

Edited June 24, 2009 by xul

[Remiel]

Alcohol has been used as a disinfectant for ages, literally.

[bush_cheney2004]

I have never heard alcohol can kill virus. Javel water may be an appropriate option, though it hurts men's skin.

Alcohol cannot "kill" a virus since they are not "alive". However, alcohol can inactivate many (but not all) types of virus.

[jdobbin]

I have never heard alcohol can kill virus. Javel water may be an appropriate option, though it hurts men's skin.

70% isoprophyl denatured alcohol will reduce the potency of viruses. It is why it is outside every hallway in hospitals. It will not completely kill the virus.

Alcohol sanitizers will kill most bacterias.

In recent years, these sanitizers have been stolen and used for their alcohol content to get drunk. Most First Nations that are dry reserves know this and like other products it is a crime to bring them to the reserve.

Some First Nations chiefs have suggested the wipes would not be a bad replacement but the CDC back in 2002 said there was not enough information about how much alcohol makes it from the wipes to the hands.

Edited June 24, 2009 by jdobbin

[Oleg Bach]

Alcohol has been used as a disinfectant for ages, literally.

Yeeahyp III ii;; j I ave bin usin nit for a disinfluctant for a long timmme now....

[Sir Bandelot]

The Health Sciences Center in Winnipeg routinely has the cartridges stolen where people drink them.

I guess it must be only natives, right? Do you believe that all natives would do this, or just the ones who live as vagrants on the streets in Winnipeg?

[Smallc]

I don't think that's what he's implying....but I know first hand that there is a large amount of alcohol abuse on northern reserves.

[xul]

Alcohol cannot "kill" a virus since they are not "alive". However, alcohol can inactivate many (but not all) types of virus.

Thank you. Your express is accurate.

I was mistaken.

[xul]

In recent years, these sanitizers have been stolen and used for their alcohol content to get drunk. Most First Nations that are dry reserves know this and like other products it is a crime to bring them to the reserve.

Some First Nations chiefs have suggested the wipes would not be a bad replacement but the CDC back in 2002 said there was not enough information about how much alcohol makes it from the wipes to the hands.

Thank you for helping me to understand the event.

[punked]

I guess it must be only natives, right? Do you believe that all natives would do this, or just the ones who live as vagrants on the streets in Winnipeg?

It is just a fact. Yes it sucks but what Dobben says is correct and that is a sad fact of life. It has nothing to do with them being natives it has to do with history

[jdobbin]

I guess it must be only natives, right? Do you believe that all natives would do this, or just the ones who live as vagrants on the streets in Winnipeg?

Don't think I said anything of the sort. I said that dry reserves ban products with alcohol in that high a concentration from coming in. I was also pointing out that problems that happen within hospitals now with sanitizers.

The fact is that anyone who works in addictions knows that hand sanitizers are being used to get drunk.

The substitutes that were suggested to go north are not as good. The wipes have been rejected since 2002 as being unproven at best. The non-alcoholic cleaners don't work effectively against viruses.

I'll agree that Health Canada debated the issue too long but there were just as many people who were wary on reserves about having so many hand sanitizers coming in to dry areas.

Edited June 24, 2009 by jdobbin

[Borg]

Canada's health minister must apologize on behalf of Health Canada for withholding hand sanitizers from flu-stricken reserves because they contained alcohol, one of Manitoba's grand chiefs said Tuesday.

A representative from the Assembly of First Nations told the committee time was wasted discussing whether it would be appropriate to send the disinfectants to communities battling alcohol addiction.

"If we're going to fight this pandemic flu, we have to do something. Something has to be done now, and not when a virus has spread over the community, you don't wait for that. There should be an immediate apology issued," Garrioch said.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090623/..._hand_sanitizer

According to the article, native communities have been hit quite hard by the swine flu pandemic. It seems stupid to idly sit around debating while the disease spreads. The bureaucrats at Health Canada need a serious shake up. Is this an insult, or are they really just that stupid?

Once upon a time the white man committed genocide, by giving them fire-water. Now...

I find this quite hilarious

Damned if they do and damned if they do not

The activists have to get their story together or else all us little folks who pay the taxes to support both outfits will start to wonder who to believe - the feds or the indians

Heck of a choice

Borg

Edited June 24, 2009 by Borg

[August1991]

I find this quite hilarious

Damned if they do and damned if they do not

The activists have to get their story together or else all us little folks who pay the taxes to support both outfits will start to wonder who to believe - the feds or the indians

I had a similar reasction to this OP, Borg.

If I understand properly, natives on reserves are waiting for bureaucrats in Ottawa to make a decision about sending them hand sanitizing lotion. WTF? Why can't natives buy their own hand sanitizers? Do bureaucrats wash natives' hands too?

In a related point, whenever I read about the deplorable living conditions of natives (that I have also seen first hand), I have always wondered why they don't pick up a hammer and saw and fix their homes.

The great crime of the Indian Act is that it treats natives like children.

[Keepitsimple]

A more appropriate headline would have been "Concerns in Native Communities Slows Delivery of Sanitizers".......funny how things get spun.

Yet Chief David Harper of the remote northern Manitoba community of Garden Hill said he initially raised concerns with the government over the idea of one-litre bottles of alcohol-based hand sanitizer being sent to his community.

"We were worried about a tendency to drink that stuff, and we've heard from way back this would be a concern."

[Oleg Bach]

When I saw a "native" with the big economy size bottle of mouth wash passed out on the bench I was shocked ----at how sweet his breath was as I kissed the sleeping princess...what's next - denying them gasoline in the arctic because some of the young ones enjoy the scent of fossil fuel?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I think the government is out to lunch.

[Sir Bandelot]

Yes its a difficult one to resolve, there isn't a simple solution. The chief on the local reserve is right to express his concerns. But the Grand Chief would have had an important opinion on this, on how to handle it and he/ they should have been consulted. He seems to indicate that the problem it presents is small, compared to the bigger problem of the disease. From that I gather, not many natives would abuse the situation by drinking the lotion, most of them are not that desperate. He is saying, that is a decision the Indian council should make. If some will drink it, let them figure out how to police the situation. Better a few drunk indians, than an outbreak sickening hundreds, including innocent women and children. But I don't know, I don't live there. So let the natives speak and decide, they don't want more decisions made for them by the white man, especially by some committee in some office.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Yes its a difficult one to resolve, there isn't a simple solution. The chief on the local reserve is right to express his concerns. But the Grand Chief would have had an important opinion on this, on how to handle it and he/ they should have been consulted. He seems to indicate that the problem it presents is small, compared to the bigger problem of the disease. From that I gather, not many natives would abuse the situation by drinking the lotion, most of them are not that desperate. He is saying, that is a decision the Indian council should make. If some will drink it, let them figure out how to police the situation. Better a few drunk indians, than an outbreak sickening hundreds, including innocent women and children. But I don't know, I don't live there. So let the natives speak and decide, they don't want more decisions made for them by the white man, especially by some committee in some office.

Give them self government. This is the kind of thing that gets government relations with them in the bad press category.

[GostHacked]

Give them self government. This is the kind of thing that gets government relations with them in the bad press category.

I thought for the most part they are self-governing. And if that is the case, why the hell are they waiting for Ottawa to make up their minds? I don't think there is enough education going on in these communities about the adverse health effects of this type of behaviour.

[capricorn]

I don't think there is enough education going on in these communities about the adverse health effects of this type of behaviour.

I wonder if there is enough cooperation and communication between the federal and provincial governments, and Native communities. I have a feeling the shared responsibilities of the two levels of government sometimes gives poor results for the Natives. Addiction education may be a victim of unclear processes.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I thought for the most part they are self-governing. And if that is the case, why the hell are they waiting for Ottawa to make up their minds? I don't think there is enough education going on in these communities about the adverse health effects of this type of behaviour.

That would depend on your definition of self government. I will suggest that the Government of Canada undertake actions that would result in the settlement of all land claims and the transfer of all powers and authorities with respect to native lands into the hands of the natives. Let them tax and spend their own money to provide the services they desire. In short convert them into municipalities.