Why Were Women Happier Before?

[August1991]

Greg Mankiw offers this link:

The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness

By many objective measures the lives of women in the United States have improved over the past 35 years, yet we show that measures of subjective well-being indicate that women's happiness has declined both absolutely and relative to men. The paradox of women's declining relative well-being is found across various datasets, measures of subjective well-being, and is pervasive across demographic groups and industrialized countries. Relative declines in female happiness have eroded a gender gap in happiness in which women in the 1970s typically reported higher subjective well-being than did men. These declines have continued and a new gender gap is emerging -- one with higher subjective well-being for men.

Full article here.

But then there is this too:

Last year, a team of researchers added a novel twist to something known as a time-use survey. Instead of simply asking people what they had done over the course of their day, as pollsters have been doing since the 1960s, the researchers also asked how people felt during each activity. Were they happy? Interested? Tired? Stressed?

Not surprisingly, men and women often gave similar answers about what they liked to do (hanging out with friends) and didn’t like (paying bills). But there were also a number of activities that produced very different reactions from the two sexes — and one of them really stands out: Men apparently enjoy being with their parents, while women find time with their mom and dad to be slightly less pleasant than doing laundry.

...

This intriguing — if unsettling — finding is part of a larger story: there appears to be a growing happiness gap between men and women.

NYT

----

I don't know if anyone can measure happiness, and I am more certain that subjective questionnaires about happiness are largely meaningless. Nevertheless, I suspect that more women today are less happy than 40 years ago (while a few are far happier). And to state this hypothesis in a similar way, I suspect that men today are happier than women are.

Then again, these results may be simply a question of demographics.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Women are less happy because they have followed the path of independence and profession over that of family, marriage, childeren and romantic connection - on the advice of "women's" leaders who are usually miserable man-hating lesbians with 8 cats.

While it's a good thing that women have options and the freedom to choose their path in life, many are finding that choosing a profession over marriage and childeren is metaphorically spitting into a strong genetic wind; a genetic predisposition of women to seek out love, marriage, family, childeren and homemaking.

If you thinkl I'm wrong just look at the ashen grey faces of the women who attend an offfice everyday. Then go to the local grocery store and see the glowing faces of the pregnant or new moms: they are where they want to be - whether they're willing to admit it or not.

Edited May 21, 2009 by JerrySeinfeld

[kimmy]

Greg Mankiw offers this link:

Full article here.

But then there is this too:NYT

----

I don't know if anyone can measure happiness, and I am more certain that subjective questionnaires about happiness are largely meaningless. Nevertheless, I suspect that more women today are less happy than 40 years ago (while a few are far happier). And to state this hypothesis in a similar way, I suspect that men today are happier than women are.

Then again, these results may be simply a question of demographics.

Just the other day I was hearing on the radio how the "economic downturn" has been harder on men than women. "Men identify with their jobs," the man said, "and when they lose their jobs, it's like losing a piece of their identity." Perhaps women just don't have the sense of identity now.

I could believe that women are less happy today than 40 years ago, I suppose. I'm skeptical that men today are happier, however. Most of the married men I know are worried that they'll have to live to be 150 years old to pay their mortgages and car loans and so-on, even with wives working full time too. On the way home from work they pick up their kids who've spent 2 hours in after-school care. There's a whole houseful of work to be done. I don't know if this is really working out very well for anybody.

If you thinkl I'm wrong just look at the ashen grey faces of the women who attend an offfice everyday. Then go to the local grocery store and see the glowing faces of the pregnant or new moms: they are where they want to be - whether they're willing to admit it or not.

Personally I am filled with joy all day while I'm at work. I spend my workday in the company of handsome, virile men. I get to hit things with a hammer. I get to destroy things with a crowbar. I get to order peons around. What could be more fulfilling?

Then when I get to the grocery store, I can barely restrain myself from beating people senseless. Fat stupid slobs who block the whole aisle with their shopping carts as they pick their nose and ponder which brand of diet pop will be more ineffective in combating their hideous obesity. Withered old idiots who take 32 items through the express line and pay with dimes and pennies. Jerks who squish every loaf of bread in their fat stupid meathooks before choosing one for themselves and leaving everybody else with squashed bread. Clueless dipshits who ram their shopping cart into you because they were too busy text-messaging their BFF to pay attention to anything around them.

I don't know what grocery store you shop at, Jerry, but where I shop, the moms I see look like they're on their last nerve, at their wits end, staring up at the ceiling as if hoping that one of the giant mercury lamps will fall and end the suffering. Screaming, spoiled kids whose pathetic parents will give them whatever they want, just to get them to shut up. Glowing faces? I'd feel more fulfilled if I had some of those little monsters to scream and cry at me all day?

-k

{ That's Gold, Jerry! Gold! }

[tango]

Women are less happy because they have followed the path of independence and profession over that of family, marriage, childeren and romantic connection - on the advice of "women's" leaders who are usually miserable man-hating lesbians with 8 cats.

While it's a good thing that women have options and the freedom to choose their path in life, many are finding that choosing a profession over marriage and childeren is metaphorically spitting into a strong genetic wind; a genetic predisposition of women to seek out love, marriage, family, childeren and homemaking.

If you thinkl I'm wrong just look at the ashen grey faces of the women who attend an offfice everyday. Then go to the local grocery store and see the glowing faces of the pregnant or new moms: they are where they want to be - whether they're willing to admit it or not.

[tango]

The average age of the respondents has slipped into the mid-life range, where men buy themselves motorcycles and younger women, while women look after the finances, college kids and Elders.

Edited May 21, 2009 by tango

[kimmy]

The average age of the respondents has slipped into the mid-life range, where men buy themselves motorcycles and younger women, while women look after the finances, college kids and Elders.

One thing I've heard, and I believe it was based on a study although I can't find a cite, is that widowers are generally much less happy than their married counterparts, while widows are generally happier than their married counterparts.

Based purely on my own observations of seniors I've known, I find that completely believable. The married women spend their days babysitting cantankerous old goats. The widows spend their days travelling, going to events, and other things that they never got to do while the cantankerous old goat was alive.

-k

[JerrySeinfeld]

Just the other day I was hearing on the radio how the "economic downturn" has been harder on men than women. "Men identify with their jobs," the man said, "and when they lose their jobs, it's like losing a piece of their identity." Perhaps women just don't have the sense of identity now.

I could believe that women are less happy today than 40 years ago, I suppose. I'm skeptical that men today are happier, however. Most of the married men I know are worried that they'll have to live to be 150 years old to pay their mortgages and car loans and so-on, even with wives working full time too. On the way home from work they pick up their kids who've spent 2 hours in after-school care. There's a whole houseful of work to be done. I don't know if this is really working out very well for anybody.

Personally I am filled with joy all day while I'm at work. I spend my workday in the company of handsome, virile men. I get to hit things with a hammer. I get to destroy things with a crowbar. I get to order peons around. What could be more fulfilling?

Then when I get to the grocery store, I can barely restrain myself from beating people senseless. Fat stupid slobs who block the whole aisle with their shopping carts as they pick their nose and ponder which brand of diet pop will be more ineffective in combating their hideous obesity. Withered old idiots who take 32 items through the express line and pay with dimes and pennies. Jerks who squish every loaf of bread in their fat stupid meathooks before choosing one for themselves and leaving everybody else with squashed bread. Clueless dipshits who ram their shopping cart into you because they were too busy text-messaging their BFF to pay attention to anything around them.

I don't know what grocery store you shop at, Jerry, but where I shop, the moms I see look like they're on their last nerve, at their wits end, staring up at the ceiling as if hoping that one of the giant mercury lamps will fall and end the suffering. Screaming, spoiled kids whose pathetic parents will give them whatever they want, just to get them to shut up. Glowing faces? I'd feel more fulfilled if I had some of those little monsters to scream and cry at me all day?

-k

{ That's Gold, Jerry! Gold! }

You're funny Kimmy. But you gotta check out the grocery store on a Tuesday morning at 11am. It's completely different. It's slow paced and filled with a bunch of mommy's pushing strollers around leisurely whilst talking about their favourite yoga spot with friends. Maybe it's because I shop in Kitsilano.

[sharkman]

I think it's because women are a more accurate indicator of society's overall health than men. Women are more inclined to be concerned with family and the procuring of one, I think than men. And how is the family doing these days in the US? Not so good.

I've done the shopping from time to time, and in the pre-supper shopping people usually are still in hurry up work mode and it can be a pretty unrewarding experience. Kimmy, I thought I was the only one who noticed the rudeness of these shoppers! My favorite is those who burst out of an aisle without the slightest thought that someone may be approaching, and you have to take evasive maneuvers.

Edited May 22, 2009 by sharkman

[jdobbin]

I don't know if anyone can measure happiness, and I am more certain that subjective questionnaires about happiness are largely meaningless. Nevertheless, I suspect that more women today are less happy than 40 years ago (while a few are far happier). And to state this hypothesis in a similar way, I suspect that men today are happier than women are.

And your solutions are?

[DFCaper]

You're funny Kimmy. But you gotta check out the grocery store on a Tuesday morning at 11am. It's completely different. It's slow paced and filled with a bunch of mommy's pushing strollers around leisurely whilst talking about their favourite yoga spot with friends. Maybe it's because I shop in Kitsilano.

Women used to be put on a pedistal. They didn't have to go to work, or even open doors. Now they are slaves to the corporate world like the rest of us. They have now joined men in the responsibility of having to have and maintain a job outside of the home. I would think raising 5-10 children would be more fulfilling than the average job. Not that I think 99% of men could handle the "traditional" womans role. Of the few working women I know, at least half with young children would love the option to stay home. I would also be willing to bet that women are contributing more to the male traditional role than men are contributing to the traditional female role.

Men are probably happier that what is traditionally a male role is now shared with the wife. Sure men now share some of the "traditional" female role, but 1-3 kids would be a hell of a lot easier than 5-15.

I can also believe that widows are happier than women married to old cranky fellas...

[Oleg Bach]

Woman are happy when they let men be men - protective - caring - tender - and above all have an angelic godly quality - woman are happy when men are good...now with moral neurtality being the norm - most men are not good - and most woman are unhappy.

[WIP]

Women used to be put on a pedistal. They didn't have to go to work, or even open doors. Now they are slaves to the corporate world like the rest of us. They have now joined men in the responsibility of having to have and maintain a job outside of the home.

So, the fact that most women have entered the workforce and want to have fewer than "5 - 10" children, should indicate that they weren't all that happy up there on that pedestal. Maybe they were getting nose-bleeds up there!

[sharkman]

So, the fact that most women have entered the workforce and want to have fewer than "5 - 10" children, should indicate that they weren't all that happy up there on that pedestal. Maybe they were getting nose-bleeds up there!

Did you happen to read the first post, that women are less happy now than they were? The gospel of feminism has not solved anything.

[betsy]

Jerry has a very good point. Females are "hard-wired" to be nurturers. I wonder how many working moms are racked by guilt ...or feelings of "loss," for not having enough time to spend with their family, especially their children?

One thing I noticed when I'm around women....they tend to always whine or complain about their lot.

Definitely, it is more stressful for women these days than in the past. Juggling two roles...and let's face it, most of them still do most of the house chores!

Let's be honest, the quality of life for the child and family suffers. I suspect one of the reasons why we have a high percentage of obese children is due to the fact that most of them ends up eating unhealthy foods. Who has the time to really do home-made cooking these days? Just go for ready-to-serve commercially-packed dinners, or fastfood outlets.

Of course, materialism reign supreme these days....so the pressure is really high. If you want those extras in life, I guess you just have to get out there and work.

I don't see what "freedom" the feminists are on about?

[Oleg Bach]

Female liberation consisted of a banker looking at a single income male and realizing that if the woman was enslaved also that the banker could double his profits. Take a look at family law and you will see that females SEEM to be protected as long as they can be used by the sytem to generate income and power for those within the system and not for the woman - Old feminists that headed the early movement are now aged and established and have become men..and they have abandoned their sisters....gone are the days of a real feminist movement - My mother was a real feminist - she generated a large income and was independent of spirit..she did what she pleased and MEN never entered into the equation...there was no man hate on her part and no blame - she was a capable human being and no one could stop her...She did not need a false environment of equality to succeed - she just did it!

[Argus]

My mother used to talk about a lifestyle which seemed quite idyllic. She and the other young mothers would send their husbands off to work, then take their kids to the park, sit around and chat and snack while the tykes played. They'd come home, put the kid to sleep, do some cleaning, then get ready for either dinner or a night out (there was a LOT more night outs then than there is now).

Compare that to a woman slogging off to work, jammed in like sardines on a hot bus for an hour-long trip to a crappy job they don't like anyway doing things which are meaningless and unsatisfying. Feminism has opened up interesting fields for women who are able to take advantage, but by far the majority of women, like, it seems, the majority of men, are in jobs which they hold no particular affection for, and would drop in an instant if they could.

I know a number of young women of child-bearing age. Every one of them really likes being able to stay home on maternity leave with the kid(s). Usually at about the eight or nine month mark they're starting to get a bit bored, but not exactly looking forward to getting back to work. I think if I asked, every one of them would be more than content to work maybe one or two days a week to liven life up, and spend the rest of the time with their kids at home. I think mostly what they miss from work is the social interaction. Few young people have the number of friends my parents did (father in military).

Hey, wasn't technology supposed to eliminate lives of drudgery by now and give us all the time we wanted to play in the sunshine?

[kimmy]

My mother used to talk about a lifestyle which seemed quite idyllic. She and the other young mothers would send their husbands off to work, then take their kids to the park, sit around and chat and snack while the tykes played. They'd come home, put the kid to sleep, do some cleaning, then get ready for either dinner or a night out (there was a LOT more night outs then than there is now).

Compare that to a woman slogging off to work, jammed in like sardines on a hot bus for an hour-long trip to a crappy job they don't like anyway doing things which are meaningless and unsatisfying. Feminism has opened up interesting fields for women who are able to take advantage, but by far the majority of women, like, it seems, the majority of men, are in jobs which they hold no particular affection for, and would drop in an instant if they could.

I know a number of young women of child-bearing age. Every one of them really likes being able to stay home on maternity leave with the kid(s). Usually at about the eight or nine month mark they're starting to get a bit bored, but not exactly looking forward to getting back to work. I think if I asked, every one of them would be more than content to work maybe one or two days a week to liven life up, and spend the rest of the time with their kids at home. I think mostly what they miss from work is the social interaction. Few young people have the number of friends my parents did (father in military).

Hey, wasn't technology supposed to eliminate lives of drudgery by now and give us all the time we wanted to play in the sunshine?

Excellent post, Argus. You've taken this out of the realm of inane discussion of goofy generalizations ("feminists said this, and women did that, and now women feel like this...") and put it in the context of individuals making choices that fit their own circumstances and tastes, which is where it belongs.

I bolded a couple of parts that I thought were particularly astute.

-k

[kimmy]

Betsy raises the subject of materialism. Is materialism the reason why all these married women work?

My parents bought their first house in the early 1980s, and even with just one income were able to pay off the mortgage within 10 years.

Right now, a comparable house in any of Canada's major cities would probably cost more than most two-income families could pay off in 20 years.

I'd be curious to see a comparison of income vs housing prices over the years; I bet that the average Canadian's income buys a lot less home than it used to.

I think most Canadians probably grew up in homes that had a yard to play in and a bedroom for each child. I think this is an ideal that many young parents aspire to, and at present I think both parents working is the only way for most Canadian families to afford this (short of bumping off your parents and inheriting their home...)

You're funny Kimmy. But you gotta check out the grocery store on a Tuesday morning at 11am. It's completely different. It's slow paced and filled with a bunch of mommy's pushing strollers around leisurely whilst talking about their favourite yoga spot with friends. Maybe it's because I shop in Kitsilano.

So, these are single-income families in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the country? I gather your advice for women seeking happiness is "marry a rich guy"?

-k

[Argus]

Betsy raises the subject of materialism. Is materialism the reason why all these married women work?

My parents bought their first house in the early 1980s, and even with just one income were able to pay off the mortgage within 10 years.

Right now, a comparable house in any of Canada's major cities would probably cost more than most two-income families could pay off in 20 years.

I'd be curious to see a comparison of income vs housing prices over the years; I bet that the average Canadian's income buys a lot less home than it used to.

I know a number of older people who had no difficulty paying off a house on a single income, and most weren't bankers or lawyers either. One was an armored car guard while another worked for a department store. I'm not sure why things are less affordable now on a single income. My own theory has to do with the law of supply and demand. There is a set amount of work to do and X amount of workers. If you double the number of workers but don't substantially increase the work to be done then those workers are going to command considerably lower salaries. So in a way, the wholesale introduction of women into the workplace lowered the value of the work they and men did, meaning they now HAD to work full time along with their husbands/spouses in order to afford the necessities of life.

Mind you, there is also the fact that what we consider to be a "necessity" of life keeps growing. If you choose to live like your grandparents, for example, you will not be wasting so much money on groceries for you won't be buying things like tinfoil and paper towels and all those packaged foods. You won't buy air freshener and ice cream bars and disposable diapers - for adults and babies. When you pay your monthly bills, you won't need to worry about a cell phone bill, or an internet bill, or a cable bill, or for that matter, a credit card bill. You won't have to pay debit card fees, and your bank charges will be tiny. And the taxes on your income and on your house will be much, much lower.

[Oleg Bach]

No government or liberating movement brings about happiness and satisfaction - the woman or men that are happy figured out for themselves what happiness is and how to attain it - it was not economic or some feminist ideology - intelligent woman know how to enjoy life - those that are unhappy have their thinking done for them.

[Topaz]

Is anyone considering that in the US and Canada there are wars being fought?? Are women in other countries who don't have wars happier? Are men happier in those countries too? I think when the world is in conflict no one is happy and as new generations come and run the countries, we do get more conflict, more wars, sickness, and the destruction the environment creates doesn't help. Perhaps the question could be are PEOPLE happier in later years than their early years?

[betsy]

Perhaps the question could be are PEOPLE happier in later years than their early years?

That's an interesting point. Maturity comes into play. I surely am different when I was a whole lot younger. Priorities were not quite the same.

It must be tougher for younger women these days to set up priorities and realistic goals....commercialism has gone rampant...relentlessly abetted and promoted by the media.

The definition of "success" and "achievements" has taken on a whole new meaning.

Of course, a lot of women are also not content with their physical looks. My butt too big? My boobs too small? My nose needs to be lessened. Need botox! Lips puffed-up. Need uplift. Facelift. Eyelift. Tummy tuck. Lipo.

Then....got to have that nice toned body!

I mean....if you're a working woman, not mention a mom to boot....where do you get the extra time???

The one area where most women would've excelled (since it's in most everyone of us) is making a home for the family. It's a big responsibility and it's a real job! Isn't that what Feminist Movement fought for when it got started???

The sad irony....nowadays, a lot of women think that to be a stay-at-home mom is not only degrading...but some think of it as a "failure."

Edited May 24, 2009 by betsy

[capricorn]

The one area where most women would've excelled (since it's in most everyone of us) is making a home for the family. It's a big responsibility and it's a real job! Isn't that what Feminist Movement fought for when it got started???

I don't think so betsy. As I recall, the feminist movement was all about getting women out of the home and into paid employment. Largely, their definition of equality was that women should compete for and hold important jobs that were traditionally held by men. Feminists thought the only way women could become equal is if they occupied corporate boardrooms and rose to decision-making positions. Heck, in the early days women even dressed like men because they thought it would give them an edge in the workplace.

[Oleg Bach]

Woman were happier when they were respected and allowed to be woman instead of these freaks that are emerging - not male and not female--- man in the same breath should be encouraged to be men -and honour must be re-instilled so a mans word is worth a fortune...the economy is in distress because lieing and cheating and stealing is normalized - but it does not serve us well - nothing like a real independant woman that embraces who she is...instead of this quest to have the ills of malehood - alcholism - stress - high blood pressure - lonelyness - etc..time to go back to the days when we told the truth - it will set us free - a woman is NOT a male...to treat woman like men is to disempower them.

[WIP]

Did you happen to read the first post, that women are less happy now than they were? The gospel of feminism has not solved anything.

Yes, but I didn't read the report cited by blogger Greg Mankiw until now. My first impression is that a study that measures happiness and satisfaction is trying to measure subjective feelings from the self-reports given by subjects answering questionaires. These are not tangible quantities that can be independently measured like economic data, crime statistics or unemployment; so right off the start I got my skeptical hat on when someone presents this sort of data as being proof of some point that they are trying to make!

Did you notice that the studies cited in the linked report showed a decline in happiness of both men and women? So why just highlight the unhappiness of women?

Ever since the feminist movement began, there has always been a regular stream of horror stories, claiming that the freedoms provided when women entered the workforce en mass, will ultimately ruin women's lives....their biological clocks will run out while they have been advancing up the career ladder and tell women they'll die childless for delaying marriage........ and if they don't find a husband by 30 they'll never get married......and on and on and on.

I couldn't help noticing that a couple of conservative bloggers that linked the study, were using it as part of an argument that the government is creating social disharmony by performing too many roles that were once done by the family. So could the story be just another part of the stealth strategy behind the family values campaign -- women will have to migrate back to their domestic roles of looking after the family as further cuts in government services are made.....and that would serve the interests of the fiscal conservatives and the religious right!