The Morality of the Muslim World

[Argus]

It's interesting to note the almost ceaseless whining from the Muslim world about the human rights of Palestinians, and the respect they feel the Muslim world is entitled to and isn't getting - and then contrast that with Omar al-Bashir and the Muslim world's respect and protection for this wanted man, a man the International Criminal Court in the Hague has indicted for crimes against humanity and orchestrating atrocities in Darfur. al-bashir has now visited 5 Muslim countries since his indictment, and been greeted warmly by all of them. He's now in Saudi Arabia, preparing to go to Mecca like all good Muslims.

He was earlier greeted warmly at the Arab summit, unsurprisingly as his contemporaries are all murderers and crooks anyway, even if not yet indicted. "What is required from all of us is to stand with our brothers in Sudan and its leadership in order to prevent dangers that affect our collective security," Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallem said.

Charming.

The Organization of the Islamic Conference, representing 56 Muslim nations has already rejected the ICC indictment, and its secretary general flew to Khartoum to personally reassure al-bashir that he was behaving as a proper Muslim ought to behave, and his fellow Muslim despots were fully supportive of his butchery, slaughter and genocide.

And what do we see of this topic here? Nothing. Just the endless prattling, snivelling and accusations against Israel of the usual crowd, who fearlessly demonstrate, yet again, that the reason they are fixated on Israel has nothing whatsoever to do with any concern for human rights abuses.

Oh I'm not saying they're all anti-Semites and jew-baiters. Most of them are just unthinking lefties. If, for example, Sudan were a US client state instead of a Chinese one, they'd be howling for blood here day after day, just like they are about Israel.

Like the Muslims, their concerns for human rights seem to be little more than mouth noises.

[DogOnPorch]

Reminds me of that scene last year, I believe where Israel released Samir Kantar (child killer) and he was welcomed as a hero by the Lebanese goverment. The people were out as well cheering the 'victory'.

Strange value system.

[WIP]

It's interesting to note the almost ceaseless whining from the Muslim world about the human rights of Palestinians, and the respect they feel the Muslim world is entitled to and isn't getting - and then contrast that with Omar al-Bashir and the Muslim world's respect and protection for this wanted man, a man the International Criminal Court in the Hague has indicted for crimes against humanity and orchestrating atrocities in Darfur. al-bashir has now visited 5 Muslim countries since his indictment, and been greeted warmly by all of them. He's now in Saudi Arabia, preparing to go to Mecca like all good Muslims.

He was earlier greeted warmly at the Arab summit, unsurprisingly as his contemporaries are all murderers and crooks anyway, even if not yet indicted. "What is required from all of us is to stand with our brothers in Sudan and its leadership in order to prevent dangers that affect our collective security," Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallem said.

If you're arguing that the Muslim World isn't held to the same standard that is expected of Western nations, it's a no-brainer! If one of the members of the G-20 was a mass murderer, indicted for genocide, mass rape and ethnic cleansing( Radovan Karadzic, for example), there would be an uproar of Biblical proportions if he showed up at the summit, and was photographed shaking hands with other leaders showing their solidarity with him. The default response from Muslim and/or Arab leaders, as long as I've been around, has been that the ends-justify-the-means -- so suicide bombing, genocide, public stonings, can always be excused as unfortunate circumstances on the road to meeting a higher purpose......but that doesn't mean we should give aid and comfort to those in the West, who have the same mindset -- like Dick Cheney.

The Organization of the Islamic Conference, representing 56 Muslim nations has already rejected the ICC indictment, and its secretary general flew to Khartoum to personally reassure al-bashir that he was behaving as a proper Muslim ought to behave, and his fellow Muslim despots were fully supportive of his butchery, slaughter and genocide.

And what do we see of this topic here? Nothing. Just the endless prattling, snivelling and accusations against Israel of the usual crowd, who fearlessly demonstrate, yet again, that the reason they are fixated on Israel has nothing whatsoever to do with any concern for human rights abuses.

Oh I'm not saying they're all anti-Semites and jew-baiters. Most of them are just unthinking lefties. If, for example, Sudan were a US client state instead of a Chinese one, they'd be howling for blood here day after day, just like they are about Israel.

Like the Muslims, their concerns for human rights seem to be little more than mouth noises.

Bullshit! If you are honest about the coverage of the Sudan genocide, you would have to admit that it would not have become a front-burner issue if it wasn't for the work of left wing groups like Amnesty International, Opendemocracy, and Unitedhumanrights etc.. The only beef I have with their approach, is that they will not deal with the religious aspects of these kinds of issues (just like public stoning and female circumcision). On the other hand, when the Darfur genocide first started getting noticed, the only rightwing voice I heard covering the story was Pat Robertson's CBN network....but I noticed that in most of the 700 Club stories on Darfur, they failed to mention that, unlike their friends in Southern Sudan, Darfur is also a Muslim territory.

[ironstone]

If you're arguing that the Muslim World isn't held to the same standard that is expected of Western nations, it's a no-brainer! If one of the members of the G-20 was a mass murderer, indicted for genocide, mass rape and ethnic cleansing( Radovan Karadzic, for example), there would be an uproar of Biblical proportions if he showed up at the summit, and was photographed shaking hands with other leaders showing their solidarity with him. The default response from Muslim and/or Arab leaders, as long as I've been around, has been that the ends-justify-the-means -- so suicide bombing, genocide, public stonings, can always be excused as unfortunate circumstances on the road to meeting a higher purpose......but that doesn't mean we should give aid and comfort to those in the West, who have the same mindset -- like Dick Cheney.

Bullshit! If you are honest about the coverage of the Sudan genocide, you would have to admit that it would not have become a front-burner issue if it wasn't for the work of left wing groups like Amnesty International, Opendemocracy, and Unitedhumanrights etc.. The only beef I have with their approach, is that they will not deal with the religious aspects of these kinds of issues (just like public stoning and female circumcision). On the other hand, when the Darfur genocide first started getting noticed, the only rightwing voice I heard covering the story was Pat Robertson's CBN network....but I noticed that in most of the 700 Club stories on Darfur, they failed to mention that, unlike their friends in Southern Sudan, Darfur is also a Muslim territory.

I'm not trying to be facetious,but when the above mentioned left wing groups do try to bring attention to a genocide like in the Sudan,what course of action do they recommend,if any?Peacekeeping forces are not always effective(Rwanda comes to mind) and left wingers are usually violently opposed to military action of any kind.I wonder if Muslim leaders have respect for anything other than the threat of real military action to keep them in line.

[August1991]

The Organization of the Islamic Conference, representing 56 Muslim nations has already rejected the ICC indictment, and its secretary general flew to Khartoum to personally reassure al-bashir that he was behaving as a proper Muslim ought to behave, and his fellow Muslim despots were fully supportive of his butchery, slaughter and genocide.

The Islamic Conference is about as representative of Muslims as Leftists are representative of the West.

Believe it or not, Argus, there are people like you in Iran and Saudi Arabia. Unfortunately, they are more terrified of speaking or saying what they think than you are. (Argus, you at least can post here anonymously.)

With that said, I am certain that few people in the Middle East, given the chance, would share your viewpoints Argus.

[Argus]

The Islamic Conference is about as representative of Muslims as Leftists are representative of the West.

Believe it or not, Argus, there are people like you in Iran and Saudi Arabia. Unfortunately, they are more terrified of speaking or saying what they think than you are. (Argus, you at least can post here anonymously.)

With that said, I am certain that few people in the Middle East, given the chance, would share your viewpoints Argus.

If the people in the Middle East had the opportunity to throw out all their dictators, who would they choose to lead them and under what type of government? You know as well as I do that, given the popular will of the people, we would see theocratic states, Sharia law, and no further democracy.

So yes, I rather doubt many would share my viewpoints over there either.

[Argus]

If you're arguing that the Muslim World isn't held to the same standard that is expected of Western nations, it's a no-brainer! If one of the members of the G-20 was a mass murderer, indicted for genocide, mass rape and ethnic cleansing( Radovan Karadzic, for example), there would be an uproar of Biblical proportions if he showed up at the summit, and was photographed shaking hands with other leaders showing their solidarity with him. The default response from Muslim and/or Arab leaders, as long as I've been around, has been that the ends-justify-the-means -- so suicide bombing, genocide, public stonings, can always be excused as unfortunate circumstances on the road to meeting a higher purpose......but that doesn't mean we should give aid and comfort to those in the West, who have the same mindset -- like Dick Cheney.

I think that even acknowledging the above, most people simply ignore the discrepancy between what the likes of al Bashir does and what the likes of Dick Cheny does. Who would draw the most protestors in a given western city if they came to visit, al Bashir or George Bush?

[bullshit! If you are honest about the coverage of the Sudan genocide, you would have to admit that it would not have become a front-burner issue if it wasn't for the work of left wing groups like Amnesty International, Opendemocracy, and Unitedhumanrights etc.. The only beef I have with their approach, is that they will not deal with the religious aspects of these kinds of issues (just like public stoning and female circumcision). On the other hand, when the Darfur genocide first started getting noticed, the only rightwing voice I heard covering the story was Pat Robertson's CBN network....but I noticed that in most of the 700 Club stories on Darfur, they failed to mention that, unlike their friends in Southern Sudan, Darfur is also a Muslim territory.

It is worth noting, however, that the American government has been in the forefront of condemning Darfur and demanding action be taken at the UN. Meanwhile, the French and Chinese have been ardently fighting against any such action. I have seen no particular response among "human rights activists" to the support of these governments for a bloody dictator in Sudan that could be in any way compared to their sneering condemnation and outraged anger were it the US who was supporting Sudan against others demanding action.

So you are correct in that we hold the west to different standards but ignore the fact we hold the Americans to different standards than we do other western nations.

[ironstone]

A 13 year old Israeli boy was killed and a 7 year old was seriously injured in an attack by a Palestinian with a pickax last week.The attacker got away unfortunately.

This is how the story was carried by the Palestinians:BETHLEHEM, (PIC)-- The Israeli radio has reported that an Israeli settler was killed and another one was seriously wounded after a Palestinian resistance activist succeeded in making his way through the settlement of Bat Ayin, south of Bethlehem city, and attacked them.

According to the radio, big numbers of IOF troops rushed to the scene of the attack and combed the area but failed to arrest the attacker who managed to escape after the incident.

No Palestinian faction has claimed responsibility for the attack yet. However, the Israeli occupation forces imposed a curfew on the Palestinian village of Kherbet Safa, near the settlement, after the incident in a bid to apprehend the activist.

According to local Palestinian sources, big numbers of the IOF troops were dispatched and cordoned the village before they started house-to-house search operations.

Israeli settlers, who built their settlement units on Palestinian lands they forcibly usurped from the Palestinian villagers with the help of the IOF troops, frequently assault Palestinian farmers who cultivate their farms, which is the only source of income of their families.

Sad how they place a cowardly cold blooded murderer onto a pedestal.They are proud what this man did and he is a hero in their eyes.

I don't for one minute pretend to understand the Muslim mindset.The more radical one's seem to be living in another time and are strongly opposed to change.Consider the "Rape Law" in Afghanistan this week.I can't effectively put into words how atrocious and barbaric this is,especially in 2009.Why aren't more Muslims speaking out against this?

[DogOnPorch]

Taliban justice in the Swat Valley. Seventeen year old girl whipped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-wSVZiPqoA

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle6022878.ece

Edited April 4, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[eyeball]

If the people in the Middle East had the opportunity to throw out all their dictators, who would they choose to lead them and under what type of government? You know as well as I do that, given the popular will of the people, we would see theocratic states, Sharia law, and no further democracy.

The trouble is though when the people of the west impose their will in the ME and the region surrounding it, and places in South America and SE Asia also comes to mind, the result is more dictatorship and no democracy.

Ah what's the point, I might as well be talking to a brick.

Edited April 4, 2009 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

The trouble is though when the people of the west impose their will in the ME and the region surrounding it, and places in South America and SE Asia also comes to mind, the result is more dictatorship and no democracy.

But you left out Europe, Japan, and South Korea......maybe because those examples don't fit, eh?

Ah what's the point, I might as well be talking to a brick.

And a smart ass brick at that.

[eyeball]

But you left out Europe, Japan, and South Korea......maybe because those examples don't fit, eh?

No, they don't fit the pattern that started to manifest itself in 1953. Why there was a change of tactics in the wake of these successes is a mystery.

Who knows maybe there were people who believed Europe, Japan, and South Korea were the failures.

[bush_cheney2004]

No, they don't fit the pattern that started to manifest itself in 1953. Why there was a change of tactics in the wake of these successes is a mystery.

Not a mystery at all...history didn't start in 1953. And even if it did, you are trumped by Ike and the Suez Crisis.

Who knows maybe there were people who believed Europe, Japan, and South Korea were the failures.

That's OK....there are far more who believe otherwise. Every society has crackpots.

[eyeball]

Make that two bricks.

[bush_cheney2004]

Make that two bricks.

Which still leaves you far short of a tonne on this subject.

[dub]

If the people in the Middle East had the opportunity to throw out all their dictators, who would they choose to lead them and under what type of government? You know as well as I do that, given the popular will of the people, we would see theocratic states, Sharia law, and no further democracy.

So yes, I rather doubt many would share my viewpoints over there either.

mossadegh.

[Argus]

The trouble is though when the people of the west impose their will in the ME and the region surrounding it, and places in South America and SE Asia also comes to mind, the result is more dictatorship and no democracy.

Ah what's the point, I might as well be talking to a brick.

Given a choice between a dictatorship which ignors us or is allied with us, and a dictatorship which supports terrorist actions against us, I think I'm save in saying there really is no moral problem with supporting the former.

[Borg]

It's interesting to note the almost ceaseless whining from the Muslim world about the human rights of Palestinians, and the respect they feel the Muslim world is entitled to and isn't getting - and then contrast that with Omar al-Bashir and the Muslim world's respect and protection for this wanted man, a man the International Criminal Court in the Hague has indicted for crimes against humanity and orchestrating atrocities in Darfur. al-bashir has now visited 5 Muslim countries since his indictment, and been greeted warmly by all of them. He's now in Saudi Arabia, preparing to go to Mecca like all good Muslims.

He was earlier greeted warmly at the Arab summit, unsurprisingly as his contemporaries are all murderers and crooks anyway, even if not yet indicted. "What is required from all of us is to stand with our brothers in Sudan and its leadership in order to prevent dangers that affect our collective security," Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallem said.

Charming.

The Organization of the Islamic Conference, representing 56 Muslim nations has already rejected the ICC indictment, and its secretary general flew to Khartoum to personally reassure al-bashir that he was behaving as a proper Muslim ought to behave, and his fellow Muslim despots were fully supportive of his butchery, slaughter and genocide.

And what do we see of this topic here? Nothing. Just the endless prattling, snivelling and accusations against Israel of the usual crowd, who fearlessly demonstrate, yet again, that the reason they are fixated on Israel has nothing whatsoever to do with any concern for human rights abuses.

Oh I'm not saying they're all anti-Semites and jew-baiters. Most of them are just unthinking lefties. If, for example, Sudan were a US client state instead of a Chinese one, they'd be howling for blood here day after day, just like they are about Israel.

Like the Muslims, their concerns for human rights seem to be little more than mouth noises.

Human rights for Palestinians?

I assume you are talking about the West Bank - which borders on Jordan - an Arab country - a country that wants nothing to do with them

Or perhaps those in Gaza - which borders on Egypt - an Arab country - a country that wants nothing to do with them

Sorry for the "off topic" addition - then again - maybe it was not.

Borg

[Rue]

It's interesting to note the almost ceaseless whining from the Muslim world about the human rights of Palestinians, and the respect they feel the Muslim world is entitled to and isn't getting - and then contrast that with Omar al-Bashir and the Muslim world's respect and protection for this wanted man, a man the International Criminal Court in the Hague has indicted for crimes against humanity and orchestrating atrocities in Darfur. al-bashir has now visited 5 Muslim countries since his indictment, and been greeted warmly by all of them. He's now in Saudi Arabia, preparing to go to Mecca like all good Muslims.

He was earlier greeted warmly at the Arab summit, unsurprisingly as his contemporaries are all murderers and crooks anyway, even if not yet indicted. "What is required from all of us is to stand with our brothers in Sudan and its leadership in order to prevent dangers that affect our collective security," Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallem said.

Charming.

The Organization of the Islamic Conference, representing 56 Muslim nations has already rejected the ICC indictment, and its secretary general flew to Khartoum to personally reassure al-bashir that he was behaving as a proper Muslim ought to behave, and his fellow Muslim despots were fully supportive of his butchery, slaughter and genocide.

And what do we see of this topic here? Nothing. Just the endless prattling, snivelling and accusations against Israel of the usual crowd, who fearlessly demonstrate, yet again, that the reason they are fixated on Israel has nothing whatsoever to do with any concern for human rights abuses.

Oh I'm not saying they're all anti-Semites and jew-baiters. Most of them are just unthinking lefties. If, for example, Sudan were a US client state instead of a Chinese one, they'd be howling for blood here day after day, just like they are about Israel.

Like the Muslims, their concerns for human rights seem to be little more than mouth noises.

I think your biting criticism is well stated and warranted. You were very specific as to the context and I appreciate your being precise and exact as to who you are criticizing and why. Bang on.

My only mild smile or laugh was the shot at unthinking lefties. After the fiasco with that idiot MP from the UK trying to get into Canada I was feeling very Argus like myself in regards to unthinking lefties. But unfortunately Argus there are unthinking centrists like myself and righties who equally deserve a slap some days when we underestimate the intolerance of certain people in our zeal to defend our own beliefs as well as project them on others intentionally or unintentionally.

Nothing like an Argus critique to get the day going. Like snapping a wet towel on a chubby dude's butt.