Moonlight Graham Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Interesting: "The CIA destroyed a dozen videotapes of harsh interrogations of terror suspects, according to documents filed Friday in a lawsuit over the government's treatment of detainees. The 12 tapes were part of a larger collection of 92 videotapes of terror suspects that the CIA destroyed. The extent of the tape destruction was disclosed through a suit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union against the government..." Also, Guantanamo worse since Obama election: ex-detainee: LONDON (AFP) — A freed Guantanamo prisoner has said conditions at the US detention camp in Cuba have worsened since President Barack Obama was elected, claiming guards wanted to "take their last revenge". Binyam Mohamed, the first detainee to be transferred out of Guantanamo Bay since Obama took office, also said British agents "sold me out" by cooperating with his alleged torturers, in his first interview since release which was published Sunday. "Since the election it's got harsher," Mohamed told the newspaper. "The guards would say, 'yes, this place is going to close down,' but it was like they wanted to take their last revenge." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 "Harsh interrogations" Nice word spinning - you mean slimy videos of some sadists putting a pair of pliars to the testicles of bound weeping men...or suffocating a person until he crys like a baby and craps his pants....or threaten to do to his children what they are doing to him - enough - every last elected offical that suggested or supported torture should be picked up and jailed for a year and let them think about this hobby of the privledged and bored. In past history the only people who were remotely interested in torture were those of great wealth and power - who have tried every kinky diversion to eleviate their boredom with debauchery - this was history repeating it self - do a check - every last member of the American congress that suggested torture was civilized and protected civilization are the most uncivilized barbarian millionares on the planet - I think it's called sadism. Poor people are not interested in torture - apparently the rich are...jerks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 The only reason you destroy evidence is to hide your actions. Plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 No, Oleg, they don't torture. I can fully understand why the CIA would do this, now that Obama has outlawed waterboarding, the ACLU has the bit in it's mouth and wants to go after waterboarders. Except they can't, since when the army and CIA did it, it was legal. The ACLU are wasting their time and money, but that won't stop them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 No, Oleg, they don't torture. I can fully understand why the CIA would do this, now that Obama has outlawed waterboarding, the ACLU has the bit in it's mouth and wants to go after waterboarders. Except they can't, since when the army and CIA did it, it was legal.The ACLU are wasting their time and money, but that won't stop them. If it was legal, the tapes would show legal actions. But even water boarding was considered torture under the Bush Administration or another reason it was drowned in legal mumbo jumbo so there was no torture definition regarding water boarding. Can't be looking like a hypocrite now. It was legal, now illegal, then it will be legal, then illegal .. revolving door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 If it was legal, the tapes would show legal actions. But even water boarding was considered torture under the Bush Administration or another reason it was drowned in legal mumbo jumbo so there was no torture definition regarding water boarding.Can't be looking like a hypocrite now. It was legal, now illegal, then it will be legal, then illegal .. revolving door. I don't quite understand your second sentence, what does it mean? Waterboarding was not illegal at the time it was used, and it produced information that saved thousands of innocent lives from suicide bombers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I don't quite understand your second sentence, what does it mean? Waterboarding was not illegal at the time it was used, and it produced information that saved thousands of innocent lives from suicide bombers. That is exactly what I am getting at .. It was legal then but not now. And it was illegal before the Bush Admin. So it was changed because of the ware on terror. We do not torture, because we have changed the definition of what torture is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 If it was legal, the tapes would show legal actions. But even water boarding was considered torture under the Bush Administration or another reason it was drowned in legal mumbo jumbo so there was no torture definition regarding water boarding.Can't be looking like a hypocrite now. It was legal, now illegal, then it will be legal, then illegal .. revolving door. The fickle capricious freedom the west has to do things like this is probably our most hateful feature. Its no wonder so many people want to attack us. We couldn't look more hypocritical if we tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 The fickle capricious freedom the west has to do things like this is probably our most hateful feature. Its no wonder so many people want to attack us. We couldn't look more hypocritical if we tried. Never will I forget the one remark by the old lawyer. This remark personifys our total hypocritacal approach to reality when dealing with our selves and the world - "It may be immoral but it is legal." If it is wrong then it is illegal - end of damned story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 we have changed the definition of what torture is. Exactly. The definition of torture has been changed, to now include, sleep deprivation, and even playing loud music. I can understand why tapes would be destroyed, especially when the goal posts have been moved after the fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Exactly. The definition of torture has been changed, to now include, sleep deprivation, and even playing loud music. I can understand why tapes would be destroyed, especially when the goal posts have been moved after the fact. You can not re-define torture anymore than the vain attempt to re-define life in the abortion debate. It is either torture or it is not - it is either alive or its not - sorry for my austere approach, but to attempt to create degrees of discomfort and draw a line where ever you please as far as torture is very very insincere and shows a sadistic streak - we either execute the person or we confine them with out torture (molestation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Exactly. The definition of torture has been changed, to now include, sleep deprivation, and even playing loud music. I can understand why tapes would be destroyed, especially when the goal posts have been moved after the fact. Why would you destroy tapes anyways?? If the torture was legal then, then it would mean the tapes would show no wrongdoing because of the definition of torture at that time. No biggie and no crimes committed. You destroy things when you do not want anyone else to know what you really been up to. The goal posts were moved by the Bush admin to allow these acts of torture. Now Obama has just put them back to where they were originally. Move that goalpost to where ever it makes you feel comfortable. Is it done to ease the mind? We don't torture like THAT anymore ... but torture still happens. And later on it might not be considered torture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Why would you destroy tapes anyways?? If the torture was legal then, then it would mean the tapes would show no wrongdoing because of the definition of torture at that time. No biggie and no crimes committed. You destroy things when you do not want anyone else to know what you really been up to. The goal posts were moved by the Bush admin to allow these acts of torture. Now Obama has just put them back to where they were originally. Move that goalpost to where ever it makes you feel comfortable. Is it done to ease the mind? We don't torture like THAT anymore ... but torture still happens. And later on it might not be considered torture. They destroyed them because they were horrific..If made public - those doing the tormenting and those that ordered it and the officals that condoned it - would all be doing time - smart on their part to destroy the tapes - better than doing five years. They must have been very very bad images and sounds ...torture is horror - not hollywood but real horror - to bad they destroyed them - if they existed we could put a few people away where they belong - where they can not torture us politically or prisoners physically and mentally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 They destroyed them because they were horrific..If made public - those doing the tormenting and those that ordered it and the officals that condoned it - would all be doing time - smart on their part to destroy the tapes - better than doing five years. They must have been very very bad images and sounds ...torture is horror - not hollywood but real horror - to bad they destroyed them - if they existed we could put a few people away where they belong - where they can not torture us politically or prisoners physically and mentally. I guess too much torture happened. More so than a smile and finger pointing at someone else's crotch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I guess too much torture happened. More so than a smile and finger pointing at someone else's crotch. The guys that were condoning this sadism continued domestically mutilating the people of America also - politically and economically. Look at what these sadists did to our corporate and banking systems? Holy cow ------ they must have gotten a real thrill out of torturing 300 million people all at once - and don't say that they did not enjoy it...God what a mess! Have you ever considered that the super powerful get a kick out of hurting people - whether it be a gitmo detainee or a whole nation.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 .....God what a mess! Have you ever considered that the super powerful get a kick out of hurting people - whether it be a gitmo detainee or a whole nation.. Gee...I guess you have never been Mexico way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Gee...I guess you have never been Mexico way. Not picking on you....not everything is about you, yah know - the universe does not revolve around America yah know...and diverting things off to Mexico when I am talking about you is not amuzing me in the slightest - Mexico...awh that place where their crooks called up our crooks and said - Hey take a few million poor people off our hands and locate them on your side of the boarder..they are starting to smell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Not picking on you....not everything is about you, yah know - the universe does not revolve around America yah know...and diverting things off to Mexico when I am talking about you is not amuzing me in the slightest - Mexico...awh that place where their crooks called up our crooks and said - Hey take a few million poor people off our hands and locate them on your side of the boarder..they are starting to smell... It wasn't a diversion...it was an in-your-face dose of reality about power and sadism, because it's not just about America yah know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 It wasn't a diversion...it was an in-your-face dose of reality about power and sadism, because it's not just about America yah know. You got that right - what are the Mexicans up to this year as far as offing people within the drug trade and resisting it? What's the count - about 20 thousand murders? ...makes you wonder about the Pan American union stuff. What is heartening about your retort is that finally someone is acknowledging the fact that we have sick f***s in high places - Most assume that the educated and wealthy are gentleman and woman. Look at that Kissinger fellow who bared his ass with the statement "Power is the greatest aphrodisiac" _ what's that tell you about the so-called elite? They get a pudge on when they bomb some abscure village? It was a very telling statement and no one seemed to notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 You got that right - what are the Mexicans up to this year as far as offing people within the drug trade and resisting it? What's the count - about 20 thousand murders? ..and when they murder Canadians, it's still a surprise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 ..and when they murder Canadians, it's still a surprise? Why should it be in a nation that kills thousands as if they were barn yard chickens - what do they do...look at Canadians and say ---- be sweet to them they are sacred Canadians" - What they really think and say....is probably - "Look some rich white people down here to get drunk and have sex with our 14 year olds - lets rob them - they deserve it and besides the cops really don't care - worse thing that could happen is having to give 40 bucks to Juan at the station." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted March 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Why would you destroy tapes anyways?? If the torture was legal then, then it would mean the tapes would show no wrongdoing because of the definition of torture at that time. No biggie and no crimes committed. Have you thought of the possibility that the U.S. did more than waterboarding? And that stuff was on the tapes? There's no way in heck that there was only waterboarding going on at Gitmo. I'd bet my sister that there were many thinks on those tapes that defied the Geneva Conventions. I've heard of this place called Abu Ghraib... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Why would you destroy tapes anyways?? If the torture was legal then, then it would mean the tapes would show no wrongdoing because of the definition of torture at that time. No biggie and no crimes committed. You destroy things when you do not want anyone else to know what you really been up to. The goal posts were moved by the Bush admin to allow these acts of torture. Now Obama has just put them back to where they were originally. Move that goalpost to where ever it makes you feel comfortable. Is it done to ease the mind? We don't torture like THAT anymore ... but torture still happens. And later on it might not be considered torture. Even in this country - they do not jail a drunk and burn him with hot irons - heat causes marks...but when they put you in the cooler on a hot summer night they turn up the AC to the point you can see your breath - and they make sure you have no blankets...They torture with low temperature...does not leave a mark. The poor prisoner shakes and sudders for 12 solid hours - This is common practice in Canada....but I guess it is the kinder tormenting - and the more polite torture that Canadians can except - it may not be water boarding but it's getting up there. I wonder if frost bite set into the fingers and toes of a prisoner in July would be going a bit to far? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Have you thought of the possibility that the U.S. did more than waterboarding? And that stuff was on the tapes? There's no way in heck that there was only waterboarding going on at Gitmo. I'd bet my sister that there were many thinks on those tapes that defied the Geneva Conventions. I've heard of this place called Abu Ghraib... Oh but of course, again you only destroy the records when you want to hide something. IF everything that was recorded/documented was determined not torture under Bush's watch then the tapes would show no wrongdoing. One can surmize that more than waterboarding took place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 (edited) .... I've heard of this place called Abu Ghraib... ...and I've heard of another place.... called Millhaven Penitentiary in Bath, Ontario.... aka 'Gitmo North. 192610 10MAR2009 CDT Edited March 11, 2009 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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