Plains of Abraham re-enactment cancelled

August1991 · February 19, 2009

So now we have a victory for the terror tactics of people who see history as a tool to play the victims.

Terror tactics? Were there car bombs?

How is it insulting Quebec? What does todays Quebecer have to be ashamed of because of what happened that day? What do Anglo Canadians have to be proud of because of it?

History is rarely about "what happened that day". It's all about what is happening today or could happen tomorrow. Most people don't care about the past except in teh way it can affect the future. If you don't believe me, think of any couple who has gone through a divorce.

This re-enactment has nothing to do with history or even veiled threats of violence. It has everything to do with politics.

About 30% of Quebecers want a country. Some of them are extremely frustrated people and they will use any means to make their case.

----

If you care about history, here are a few points to consider.

The French won at Ste. Foy because Montcalm out generaled Wolfe that day.

That would have been difficult. Both Wolfe and Montcalm were dead. Lévis and Bourlamaque returned from Montreal and defeated Murray in what is now the Parc des Braves, a battle that did not occur in Ste-Foy.

Then again, it was the first ship to arrive in Quebec City in 1760, after the winter, that determined who controlled the colony of some 60,000. The first warship that spring was British. Bourlamaque gave up the city to teh British.

Ultimately though, it was the Treaty of Paris in 1763 ending the Seven Years War that gave New France to Pitt and the British. As Voltaire famously wrote at the time, New France was merely quelques arpents de neiges.

BTW, between 1760 and 1850, no French ship arrived in Quebec City. The 60,000 French of Northern America were severed from all ties with the French of Europe. Until the Irish, no Roman Catholics arrived either. They were like Bulgarians under the Turks or Russians under the Mongols.

Last point. Wolfe and his battleships arrived in the spring of 1759 but his troops attacked finally on the Plains in September. During the summer of 1759, Wolfe burned houses up and down the St. Lawrence, on Orleans Island and lobbed bombs into Quebec City. In Quebec today, there is little architecture from the French era. Wolfe and his troops destroyed it.

CANADIEN · February 19, 2009

Terror tactics? Were there car bombs?

Good for you if your treashold is higher than mine.. In my book, any threat of physicla violence for political motives is a terror tactic.

Oleg Bach · February 19, 2009

Good for you if your treashold is higher than mine.. In my book, any threat of physicla violence for political motives is a terror tactic.

Those in terror and afraid of physical violence have no quams about creating a stituation from the comfort of the board room that breeds violence and generates wealth for the mussy butted girly men that think no one knows they are trouble makers and indirect killers....Having said that - those high and mighty buisness and political leaders that fear violence should move out of the fancey condo and horse ranch and take a room on the mean streets and partake in the odd bar fight and toughen up ---- the sissies...chicken poopers... :lol: Be men for God's sake and have the honour and honest male dignity that the Taliban you so envy for having balls have.. :rolleyes:

Leafless · February 19, 2009

Care to translate into something that makes sense in the English language, please?

Same thing as Wilber said in post #91 except said in a different way. Learn to comprehend.

"The French lost North America not because they were lesser people but because French colonists were badly outnumbered by British colonists "

And I said:

"They also lost because they never did believe in proper immigration"

Edited February 19, 2009 by Leafless

Leafless · February 19, 2009

No leafless, they lost because Montcalm gambled on a frontal assault against well trained and led troops in an undamaged line that had no threats to the flanks or rear.

By the end of 1757, with increased British resources, greater demands on the colonists, and the French facing national bankruptcy, the tide began to turn.

http://www.clpgh.org/research/pittsburgh/h...hindianwar.html

Blame? Blame? Who seeks blame? not me.

You stated the Plains of Abraham was used to insult Quebec.

And I replied:

Blame France for that. After the Treaty of Paris the French elite took to the boats and headed back to France leaving nothing but an army of farmers behind in Quebec.

France insulted their own.

Yes, Leafless. Its cause of the snowdrifts that the English were unaccustomed to. After all the English had just spent all winter in Quebec and snowdrifts are rare at that time of year...and oh so difficult to traverse. Frenchmen having been bred with bunny's don't seem to find snowdrifts a problem.
Or, howsabout the French were better trained and officered and thier morale hadn't sunk through 3 months of near starvation and thier numbers weren't thinned by disease? Hows that sound? Impossible! No Frenchy can defeat the English without some sly and underhanded trick up thier sleeve - like snow in April!

My encyclopedia is not available on line but this quote from another source is close enough:

At first he had some success, but the advance masked his artillery, while the infantry became bogged down in the mud and melting snowdrifts of the late spring. The battle turned into a two-hour fight at close range;

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Battle-of-St.-Foy

And from the same source:

Lévis was, however, unable to retake Quebec City. The British garrison withstood a feeble sieged until the arrival of naval reinforcements. The French fleet never arrived, France's naval hopes having been smashed at Quiberon Bay the previous autumn—and when HMS Lowestoft raised its flag as it neared Quebec, Lévis raised the siege and retreated to Montreal, where he surrendered in September to overwhelming British force.

CANADIEN · February 19, 2009

Same thing as Wilber said in post #91 except said in a different way.

Different indeed. What Wilber wrote was clear enough that nobody was left wondering what he meant. Unlike what you wrote.

Learn to comprehend

:lol:

Learn to write. Edited February 19, 2009 by CANADIEN

CANADIEN · February 19, 2009

You stated the Plains of Abraham was used to insult Quebec.
And I replied:

France insulted their own.

Not getting it, as usual. The argument by Peter F., and some sovereignist (which I clearly disagree with), is that commemoration of the Battle is used TODAY, in 2009, to insult Quebecers. Not the battle, its commemoration.

Wilber · February 19, 2009

That would have been difficult. Both Wolfe and Montcalm were dead. Lévis and Bourlamaque returned from Montreal and defeated Murray in what is now the Parc des Braves, a battle that did not occur in Ste-Foy.

I realize they were both dead, I corrected myself at the bottom of the post. I was thinking of Beauport or Montmorency, not Ste Foy.

Murray was badly outnumbered at Ste Foy, when he realized he was in danger of being outflanked he returned to the city. He made a mistake trying to attack a superior force over poor ground but still managed to hold on to the city. New France's fate was sealed when the French fleet was defeated at Quiberon, ensuring France's colonies could not be reinforced.

Edited February 19, 2009 by Wilber

Leafless · February 19, 2009

Not getting it, as usual. The argument by Peter F., and some sovereignist (which I clearly disagree with), is that commemoration of the Battle is used TODAY, in 2009, to insult Quebecers. Not the battle, its commemoration.

And what I wrote is a lot more of an insult and humiliation towards Quebecers than ANY type of reference by way of commemoration or otherwise to the battle of the Plains if Abraham.

Blame France for that. After the Treaty of Paris the French elite took to the boats and headed back to France leaving nothing but an army of farmers behind in Quebec.

I still can't figure out why any Quebecer would still want to speak French after being humiliated and abandoned by their own country like that.

Leafless · February 19, 2009

Different indeed. What Wilber wrote was clear enough that nobody was left wondering what he meant. Unlike what you wrote.
:lol: Learn to write.

There is nothing to learn from you by way of your improperly structured sentences and usually full of spelling errors.

Reading your post everyone knows you are francophone without you speaking a single word.

Edited February 19, 2009 by Leafless

Leafless · February 19, 2009

Murray was badly outnumbered at Ste Foy, when he realized he was in danger of being outflanked he returned to the city. He made a mistake trying to attack a superior force over poor ground but still managed to hold on to the city. New France's fate was sealed when the French fleet was defeated at Quiberon, ensuring France's colonies could not be reinforced.

The battle of St. Foy was a meaningless battle and made no difference relating to the British who were the victors of the war with France.

Progressive Tory · February 19, 2009

Really, the language and separation issues should have been regarded as being settled at the Plains of Abraham.

Nothing was settled at the Plains of Abraham. The battle was inconsequential. It only became important in the 19th century. Read French and English history at the time. They don't even mention it. Trade wars, nothing more.

Wilber · February 19, 2009

Nothing was settled at the Plains of Abraham. The battle was inconsequential. It only became important in the 19th century. Read French and English history at the time. They don't even mention it. Trade wars, nothing more.

Perhaps you should read up on the Seven Years War. It was described by Churchill as the first world war and involved every major power in Europe. The Plains of Abraham was one small battle in that war but it was the most important battle in North American history up to that date and certainly could not be called inconsequential when it comes to our history, that is why we continue to argue about it.

jbg · February 19, 2009

Too bad that the damn Frenchies still refuse to draw proper conclusion and insit on not assimillating, right?

Fiscal transfers help an awful lot in "not assimilating", right?

CANADIEN · February 20, 2009

Fiscal transfers help an awful lot in "not assimilating", right?

I'm an Ontarian. Fiscal transfers to Quebec is not what helped us survive forced unilingual schools. No more that it helped the Acadians survive the Deportation.

Besides, let's not fool ourselves shall way. After your expressed wih that the language issue would have been solved 250 years ago, yoou don't expect me to believe money is the primary factor behind that wish, do you?

Edited February 20, 2009 by CANADIEN

CANADIEN · February 20, 2009

And what I wrote is a lot more of an insult and humiliation towards Quebecers than ANY type of reference by way of commemoration or otherwise to the battle of the Plains if Abraham.

The opinions your express are insulting indeed. And not just to Quebecers or any French-speaking Canadians.

I still can't figure out why any Quebecer would still want to speak French after being humiliated and abandoned by their own country like that.

Because their country is CANADA. You shall never get it.

CANADIEN · February 20, 2009

There is nothing to learn from you by way of your improperly structured sentences and usually full of spelling errors.

Speaking of improperly structured sentences...

I will readily admit that I am the King of typos (in French too).

Reading your post everyone knows you are francophone without you speaking a single word.

I will also admit that my sentences structures sometimes betray that English is not my first language. Not that I have any problem with people knowing that I am a Francophone.

BTW, what's YOUR excuse for the way you butcher your own language?

Oleg Bach · February 20, 2009

Frankaphone....what's that ? Does one of these anglo phones ever get refered to by the French as an anglophone...? What about the rest of Canada that "minority" that is the majority that out numbers the French and the Anglos? What do you call them ----- multiaphones? Have you ever considered that this war between France and Britian has been over for a long long time? Talk about the Muslims and the Jews maintaining intergenerational feuds and us being pissed off for bringing their problems here ----- we are similar it seems --- so how did it start... ? A duel over what tastes better for breakfast ---- Kipper vs. Poop poo teen? :rolleyes:

Wilber · February 20, 2009

How about a kipper on a croissant?

Griz · February 20, 2009

Frankaphone....what's that ? Does one of these anglo phones ever get refered to by the French as an anglophone...? What about the rest of Canada that "minority" that is the majority that out numbers the French and the Anglos? What do you call them ----- multiaphones? Have you ever considered that this war between France and Britian has been over for a long long time? Talk about the Muslims and the Jews maintaining intergenerational feuds and us being pissed off for bringing their problems here ----- we are similar it seems --- so how did it start... ? A duel over what tastes better for breakfast ---- Kipper vs. Poop poo teen?

Build nice big boats and ship em all back overseas--that's the solution ;-)

whowhere · February 20, 2009

And what I wrote is a lot more of an insult and humiliation towards Quebecers than ANY type of reference by way of commemoration or otherwise to the battle of the Plains if Abraham.
I still can't figure out why any Quebecer would still want to speak French after being humiliated and abandoned by their own country like that.

France did not abondon Quebec. Fact France was blocked from Sending its battleships during the Seven Year War to protect Canada. Abodonment?? The Marquies Lafayette of France tried to get the Continental Congress to support a final push to capture Canada in 1778 to 1780. Abondonment Pal?? The continental Congress didn't have the backbone because they already Got what they wanted - an Independent United States at France's and Quebec's expense. There is documented dialogue of King Louis XV and another King (Germany??) of his aspirations to get Canada back. Abondonment buddy? You can be sure that these documents will become more mainstream as time comes out. There is alot of supporting historical documentation the proves that Quebec was not abondoned but lost in the shuffle of History. It could be argued the invasion of Canada during the war of 1812 by the United States was a move on their part to make good on this intention. The documented dialogue of the founders of the United States demonstrate this potential.

Abondoned buddy?? You are definately a effing lying loser. I would systematically find the supporting documentation to support what I have stated but I will leave that as my future to do list. If anything I would have to question your Heritage. You are either a Queen Loving Freedom Traitor who ran from the United States fight for Independence or you are just some asshole who came here because your parents decided to settle in Canada from another common wealth Country, or you are just a lifeless loser peroid. If you are a decendent of one of those American Traitor Assholes, I suggest you leave because you are just a dick.

Not only was Quebec not abondoned by France, it is on record the "original Canadians" fought with the Americans for four years to secure American Independence. What did your traitor to freedom Ancestors do? Fought against the United States but now like some beaten dog you are eager to kiss the United States Ass at every opportunity - Loser!! Keep projecting what you are on Quebec because the force of history states otherwise.

The Problem is, the Real Canadian History is a contrast to the English Canada revisionist agenda.

Continue to be vain you will get what you deserve.

bush_cheney2004 · February 20, 2009

...The Problem is, the Real Canadian History is a contrast to the English Canada revisionist agenda.

Either way, you just set a record post for the number of "United States".....salute! :lol:

Oleg Bach · February 20, 2009

Either way, you just set a record post for the number of "United States".....salute!

See you later BC - gotta go home and tune up the axe ---- jam night....grace upon America...and that hostage you have - Lord Black ---- make sure the old guy has a a cigar once in a while - and some nice dry white wine with his salmon tonight - Then send him home...he's good boy --- just a bit mischievious..and fit to be your real president...now I will quote the infamous Conrad Black right after his sentencing ----" AMERICA IS IN GOOD HANDS" .. :lol: