jbg Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Howard Schweber has written the best article I've ever read on the Gaza conflict where he refutes the biggest lies continually being fed to us about situation.Finally, with the blogosphere creating some competition for the MSM in the pro-Israel bias, it seems the tide is turning. Even the New York Times ran 3 editorials criticising the latest SLAUGHTER in Gaza.Nicholas Kristof Gideon Lichfield Even Rashid Kalili's views on the subject got published in the Times, imagine that! I read as far as the Cristoff column and nearly puked. These people are doing drugs. Hamas respecting a "proportionate" response whatever that is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 The prime argument justifying Israel's attack on Gaza is that Israel not only has a right but also an obligation to defend itself and its citizens. Do the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank have similar rights and obligations? Yes. They have the same rights. Point the finger of blame in the right direction. So why don't they do something about Hamas? Why do they let Hamas keep using them as shields? We all know Hamas is the real culprit here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 So if Israel has a right to self-defense, I guess anyone that feels threatened by them has the right pound them into submission if they could, right? This is why there will never be peace on Earth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Why do they let Hamas keep using them as shields? We all know Hamas is the real culprit here.... Oh right, of course *we all know* Hamas is the real culprit because everything the IDF does is an open book, verified and documented by independent journalists from all over the world. Oh wait, no, journalists aren't allowed anywhere near the war zone and we have to just believe what the IDF says. But they'd never lie, would they Betsy? *We all know* that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusThermopyle Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Howard Schweber has written the best article I've ever read on the Gaza conflict where he refutes the biggest lies continually being fed to us about situation.Finally, with the blogosphere creating some competition for the MSM in the pro-Israel bias, it seems the tide is turning. Even the New York Times ran 3 editorials criticising the latest SLAUGHTER in Gaza.Nicholas Kristof Gideon Lichfield Even Rashid Kalili's views on the subject got published in the Times, imagine that! I find many of Kristof's points to be dubious at best, mere speculation and supposition with no substance to back them.Still, they must be encouraging to the pie in the sky everything is beautifull crowd. As for the other articles, well I don't subscribe to the NYT so I couldn't read them. My question to you is, why do you link to articles that are subscription only? Do you believe that everyone subscribes to the NYT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 So if Israel has a right to self-defense, I guess anyone that feels threatened by them has the right pound them into submission if they could, right? This is why there will never be peace on Earth...Why is it only Israel that seems to have to play be Marquis of Queensbury rules? Russia invades Georgia in a brutal manner this past summer; Russia turns off the natural gas supply to Ukraine (and by extension much of Western Europe) in the middle of January; Sudan's depradations are well-known but not the subject of much angst; China massacres dissidents in Tianamen Square; Indonesia conducts brutal multi-year campaign against East Timor Yet all the outrage in the mass media, this Board and the U.N. is directed at Israel; The United States over Guantanamo;and The United States over Abu Ghraib. Where's the consistency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkness Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Why is it only Israel that seems to have to play be Marquis of Queensbury rules? Russia invades Georgia in a brutal manner this past summer; Russia turns off the natural gas supply to Ukraine (and by extension much of Western Europe) in the middle of January; Sudan's depradations are well-known but not the subject of much angst; China massacres dissidents in Tianamen Square; Indonesia conducts brutal multi-year campaign against East Timor Yet all the outrage in the mass media, this Board and the U.N. is directed at Israel; The United States over Guantanamo;and The United States over Abu Ghraib. Where's the consistency? The most powerful countries whether it be independently or through alliance are always put under the highest expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Why is it only Israel that seems to have to play be Marquis of Queensbury rules? 1. Russia invades Georgia in a brutal manner this past summer; 2. Russia turns off the natural gas supply to Ukraine (and by extension much of Western Europe) in the middle of January; 3. Sudan's depradations are well-known but not the subject of much angst; 4. China massacres dissidents in Tianamen Square; 5. Indonesia conducts brutal multi-year campaign against East Timor Yet all the outrage in the mass media, this Board and the U.N. is directed at 1. Israel; 2. The United States over Guantanamo;and 3. The United States over Abu Ghraib. Where's the consistency? This is flat out untrue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 The most powerful countries whether it be independently or through alliance are always put under the highest expectations. Apparently not......Russia and China are plenty powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) Why is it only Israel that seems to have to play be Marquis of Queensbury rules? Russia invades Georgia in a brutal manner this past summer; Russia turns off the natural gas supply to Ukraine (and by extension much of Western Europe) in the middle of January; Sudan's depradations are well-known but not the subject of much angst; China massacres dissidents in Tianamen Square; Indonesia conducts brutal multi-year campaign against East Timor Yet all the outrage in the mass media, this Board and the U.N. is directed at Israel; The United States over Guantanamo;and The United States over Abu Ghraib. Where's the consistency? The most powerful countries whether it be independently or through alliance are always put under the highest expectations. Israel's more powerful than Russia? Really? And China? Surely you jest.This is flat out untrue. What is flat out untrue? It's actually all true. Edited January 16, 2009 by jbg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost&outofcontrol Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 It's a silly...no, it's a stupid argument. It's the same as many other threads....who threw the first punch? I'm sure if I said that Hamas threw the first punch by continuously launching rockets into Israel - you would say that's not what started it.....and around and around we go....just like many, many other threads. Number of rockets fired during the cease fire by Hamas: 0 Israel admits: "No Hamas rockets were fired during ceasefire" Hamas allegedly digs a tunnel to "kidnap Israeli citizens" (The ongoing blockade has nothing to do with it of course...). Israel use this incident as a pretext for all out war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) Number of rockets fired during the cease fire by Hamas: 0Israel admits: "No Hamas rockets were fired during ceasefire" Hamas allegedly digs a tunnel to "kidnap Israeli citizens" (The ongoing blockade has nothing to do with it of course...). Israel use this incident as a pretext for all out war. False premise. Israel did not retaliate against rocket attacks in Oct or Nov. Or for tunnels to smuggle weapons...... Try rocket attacks in December, if you will.... 602 strieks against Israel by the terrorists..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rocke...n_2008#December And yes it does suck to be you Edited January 17, 2009 by M.Dancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost&outofcontrol Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) False premise. Israel did not retaliate against rocket attacks in Oct or Nov. There were no rocket attacks in October by Hamas. Try rocket attacks in December, if you will....602 strieks against Israel by the terrorists..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rocke...n_2008#December Your basic premise is that Israel's gaza offensive is in retaliation to the December rocket attacks. Hamas did not start launching rockets until the joint ISA-IDF operation on the evening of November 4th. Israel in its generosity gave Hamas a pass on the rockets fired in November but took a stand to the December ones? Edited January 17, 2009 by lost&outofcontrol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 There were no rocket attacks in October by Hamas. Your basic premise is that Israel's gaza offensive is in retaliation to the December rocket attacks. Hamas did not start launching rockets until the joint ISA-IDF operation on the evening of November 4th. Israel in its generosity gave Hamas a pass on the rockets fired in November but took a stand to the December ones? looks like dancer is out of excuses. we'll see how he'll dance around these facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 There were no rocket attacks in October by Hamas. Well there was a rocket attack...none-the-less. Hamas is apparently in charge of Gaza? Or what? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rocke...in_2008#October ------------------------------------------------------------ One of these days, Alice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 looks like dancer is out of excuses.we'll see how he'll dance around these facts. Oh great...now we're arguing about which day - week - month the rocket attacks occurred. Next it will be which color rockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 I think Israel just got pissed off and literally said enough. I don't think they really care anymore about Hamas and its so-called 'ceasefires'. One rocket too many at some point...doesn't really matter when anymore. The opportunity was perfect and Hamas walked into the trap. The planet is busy with other things like falling stock markets and new presidents. Personally if I had terrorists (or freedom fighters if you prefer) lobbing mortars and such at me, I'd expect Canada's military to squash them like bugs. Quickly, too. (crunch) ---------------------------------- Bye-bye, and buy bonds. ---Bob Hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 I think Israel just got pissed off and literally said enough. I don't think they really care anymore about Hamas and its so-called 'ceasefires'. One rocket too many at some point...doesn't really matter when anymore. The opportunity was perfect and Hamas walked into the trap. The planet is busy with other things like falling stock markets and new presidents. Boo-yah! That's it in a nutshell. Leave the navel gazing for those who are best at doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Boo-yah! That's it in a nutshell. Leave the navel gazing for those who are best at doing that. Occam's Razor. No need for wild conspiracy theories. Israel 'took the shot'. Zing...through the temple. ---------------------------------- Got 'em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IranianPride Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 (edited) This is absolutely remarkable: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MonthlyRocketHits.svg Rockets being fired from Gaza had almost stopped completely until the November 4th Israeli attack that killed seven Hamas members. Edited January 18, 2009 by IranianPride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 This is absolutely remarkable:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MonthlyRocketHits.svg Rockets being fired from Gaza had almost stopped completely until the November 4th Israeli attack that killed seven Hamas members. how is that remarkable? anyone who has done any research knows that israel has been planning this attack for some time. they timed it for the end of bush's term while the transition is happening. just because the zionist PR and a few mongrels here are declaring that this is all due to rockets being shot, it doesn't mean that it's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Personally if I had terrorists (or freedom fighters if you prefer) lobbing mortars and such at me, I'd expect Canada's military to squash them like bugs. Quickly, too. how would you react if people from bolivia started moving into your neighbourhood and started pushing the residence out of their homes and then began setting up checkpoints at every four way, and didn't really allow much movement outside of your neighbourhood? what if they stopped food and supplies from coming into your neighbourhood and you weren't able to get the necessary food and medical supplies? what if you made complaints to all authorities and nothing was done about it and this continued for over 40 years? how would you react to that dogonporch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 how would you react if people from bolivia started moving into your neighbourhood and started pushing the residence out of their homes and then began setting up checkpoints at every four way, and didn't really allow much movement outside of your neighbourhood? what if they stopped food and supplies from coming into your neighbourhood and you weren't able to get the necessary food and medical supplies?what if you made complaints to all authorities and nothing was done about it and this continued for over 40 years? how would you react to that dogonporch? Analogies about the birth of Israel that don't include all the elements of its creation are less than useless. anyone who has done any research knows that israel has been planning this attack for some time. they timed it for the end of bush's term while the transition is happening. ...and if you read my post again, that's exactly what I said, as well. The IDF have several plans. Plans to take out Syria. Plans to take down Iran a peg or two. Plans for Egypt if it ever gets Nasser-ish again. They've even been training in a mock-up of Gaza streets just to get their urban combat up to snuff. Good militaries have plans well in advance and for every possibility. It's their job. --------------------------------------------- If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli. ---Hassan Nasrallah: Hezbollah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 (edited) Analogies about the birth of Israel that don't include all the elements of its creation are less than useless....and if you read my post again, that's exactly what I said, as well. The IDF have several plans. Plans to take out Syria. Plans to take down Iran a peg or two. Plans for Egypt if it ever gets Nasser-ish again. They've even been training in a mock-up of Gaza streets just to get their urban combat up to snuff. Good militaries have plans well in advance and for every possibility. It's their job. meaning that the rockets were not the reason for israel's attack. however, the PR that is coming out continues to say that it was a retaliation to the rockets. rockets that were hardly fired until israel attacked hamas' leaders knowing it would provoke them to respond with homemade rocket attacks. israel counts on these made up threats and plays the victim card to justify and start wars to continue its agenda, which is to annex more palestinian land and to not allow or majorly delay palestinians from coming out of the occupation and forming their own country. the settlements continue to grow and not even the gaza pullout has slowed down the illegal jewish settlements on the palestinian land. Edited January 18, 2009 by dub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 what if you made complaints to all authorities and nothing was done about it and this continued for over 40 years?how would you react to that dogonporch? What about the fact that in 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973 these "people" started wars and were beaten each time? Are you saying that war is a game of "heads I win tails you lose"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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