DogOnPorch Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I agree. If the Palestinians were as militarily well-endowed as Israel, peace would break out. During each of the Arab Israeli Wars, the Israelis were outnumbered and outgunned yet still won hands down each time. Israel enjoys superior command & control structures plus excellent officers and elite troops. The Arabs can only dream of such a dynamic military. Since the Arabs attacked Israel on each occasion, one might think that superior Arab firepower doesn't equal peace...it equals a new war. ----------------------------------------------- It's a Daisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I wasn't confused how you were using the pronoun "they". As I say, however, the same applies to Israel, "that if they wish to attack, they have the priviledge of accepting the consquences." In this case though, they are defending, and they have the privilidge of watching their enemies die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Up to a point. However, Israel is one of the planet's great weapon makers...and a rich country, to boot. So the vast bulk of their military has 'Made in Israel' stamped on the side. Yep...and Israel is remarkable in many other aspects of engineering and medical technology...from desalination to software development to advanced therapies. It is a an economic beacon among some very backward neighbours. In the end....Israel is very much like....ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Are you saying that the Palestinians do not have the right of self-defense?Firing inaccurate missiles into Israel is as much self-defense as Bernardo and Humulka's random activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 I don't think firing rockets into Israel from Gaza meets the defenition of 'defence'However the IDF invasion of Gaza to stop Hamas fring rockets into Isreal does meet the definition of 'defence' pretty straitforward really. Then the dirty Israeli bombs going into Gaza don't meet the definition of "defence" either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFCaper Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 I agree. If the Palestinians were as militarily well-endowed as Israel, peace would break out. I believe that if the Palestinians had the ability to have a 50-50 chance in destroying Israel, They would not stop trying. After there eventual success, they'd in fight. This deference of opinion is probably why we cannot see eye to eye on the conflict in general, except maybe, wanting to see it end. I just wish Israel would put on a strong humanitarian effort to go along with the attack. And keep that effort strong afterwards also. There current method is not going to solve anything long term. We have plenty of history to prove this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Then the dirty Israeli bombs going into Gaza don't meet the definition of "defence" either. Hmmmm...interesting point. Lobbing rockets/bombs into another land is not defence. Okay. Then the rockets of Hamas were'nt defending anything and IDF artillery/bombs arn't defending anything either. So nobobdy is defending anything. I can live with that. What would this concept of 'self-defence' entail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstone Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Israel does indeed recieve much military aid from the United States,that does not necessarily mean they are merely a lapdog of the Americans.Israel is a true democracy after all.Remember,most of the surrounding Arab nations recieved military aid from the former Soviet Union,in some cases they had it quicker than the Red Army.Israel also produces their own military equipment as well,some of the finest hardware in the world. What a sharp contrast between the opposing sides.One side fights with honor,doing everything in their power to avoid collateral damage,while the other side not only seeks out the easiest targets,but will willingly sacrifice their own women and children to win in the court of world public opinion. Truly pathetic that they do seem to be winning in that area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 All most half of the dead in Gaza are children and Israel is throwing white phosphorus bombs at them just like the US did in Fallujah and many women and children were severely burned! By using these illegal weapons the Middle-East of Arabs are getting angry at Israel and this could lead to nothing peaceful. Is this Israel plan to goat Iran into a war so they can go in and take out their nuclear plants? IF this happend both US and Canadians troops will be suck into a bloody war and remember Pakistan and India do have the nukes. Is this what both and Harper and Bush want to see happen?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Israel does indeed recieve much military aid from the United States,that does not necessarily mean they are merely a lapdog of the Americans.Israel is a true democracy after all.Remember,most of the surrounding Arab nations recieved military aid from the former Soviet Union,in some cases they had it quicker than the Red Army.Israel also produces their own military equipment as well,some of the finest hardware in the world.What a sharp contrast between the opposing sides.One side fights with honor,doing everything in their power to avoid collateral damage,while the other side not only seeks out the easiest targets,but will willingly sacrifice their own women and children to win in the court of world public opinion. Truly pathetic that they do seem to be winning in that area. History agrees with your post. It would actually be quite handy if more people had a better context of history when it comes to Arab Israeli conflicts. As I've mentioned, it's ironic that many of the APCs carrying Israeli soldiers are old Soviet-Syrian/Egyptian T-54/55s and T-62s used in past wars to destroy Israel. Good short documentary on the 1973 Yom Kippur War... ----------------------------------------------- Russians can give you arms but only the United States can give you a solution. ---President Anwar Sadat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 All most half of the dead in Gaza are children and Israel is throwing white phosphorus bombs at them just like the US did in Fallujah and many women and children were severely burned! By using these illegal weapons the Middle-East of Arabs are getting angry at Israel and this could lead to nothing peaceful. Is this Israel plan to goat Iran into a war so they can go in and take out their nuclear plants? IF this happend both US and Canadians troops will be suck into a bloody war and remember Pakistan and India do have the nukes. Is this what both and Harper and Bush want to see happen?? Do you have any idea how far Iran is away from Israel? --------------------------------------------------- I think Israel will think one thousands times before invading Gaza. ---Sheikh A. Yassin: founder HAMAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstone Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 All most half of the dead in Gaza are children and Israel is throwing white phosphorus bombs at them just like the US did in Fallujah and many women and children were severely burned! By using these illegal weapons the Middle-East of Arabs are getting angry at Israel and this could lead to nothing peaceful. Is this Israel plan to goat Iran into a war so they can go in and take out their nuclear plants? IF this happend both US and Canadians troops will be suck into a bloody war and remember Pakistan and India do have the nukes. Is this what both and Harper and Bush want to see happen?? You are way off on your assumptions.You are insinuating that Israel is "throwing" bombs indiscriminately towards Gaza.Nothing could be further from the truth and you would know this if you checked your facts first.The IDF is well equipped with precision guided munitions and they use these to avoid,as much as possible,collateral damage. As for almost half of the total casualties in Gaza being children,that responsibility must lie with Hamas.They are the one's that protect missile launch sites by surrounding them with women and children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) Howard Schweber has written the best article I've ever read on the Gaza conflict where he refutes the biggest lies continually being fed to us about situation. It's quite long, but if you've got the time, read it. Brilliantly detailed, he demonstrates how the Gaza's 'withdrawal' was nothing more than a sham, how Hamas is NOT calling for the destruction of Israel and how the continual refusal to speak to them is counter-productive. Finally, and mostly importantly, IMO, he touches on what the OP here (and I in the past) have said about the paradox of Israel's right to defend itself while revoking that same right from Palestinians. The blockades were an act of war and the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves. Calling them terrorists for fighting for what we take as our most sacred tenet of our society (freedom) is simply reprehensible. Finally, with the blogosphere creating some competition for the MSM in the pro-Israel bias, it seems the tide is turning. Even the New York Times ran 3 editorials criticising the latest SLAUGHTER in Gaza. Nicholas Kristof Gideon Lichfield Even Rashid Kalili's views on the subject got published in the Times, imagine that! Edited January 11, 2009 by BC_chick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 All most half of the dead in Gaza are children and Israel is throwing white phosphorus bombs at them just like the US did in Fallujah and many women and children were severely burned! So what? Would it be better if all the dead had full grown testicles instead? By using these illegal weapons the Middle-East of Arabs are getting angry at Israel and this could lead to nothing peaceful. Is this Israel plan to goat Iran into a war so they can go in and take out their nuclear plants? When are they not "angry" at Israel? You mean this time they are reallly, really, really mad? IF this happend both US and Canadians troops will be suck into a bloody war and remember Pakistan and India do have the nukes. Is this what both and Harper and Bush want to see happen?? Canada has no dog in this fight....relax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barts Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Canada has no dog in this fight....relax. Almost every nation has a "dog in this fight", which is why both Harper and Ignatieff have commented on it, and taken the positions they have in favour of Israel. Some dogs just happen to be bigger and dumber and more vicious than other dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Almost every nation has a "dog in this fight", which is why both Harper and Ignatieff have commented on it, and taken the positions they have in favour of Israel.Some dogs just happen to be bigger and dumber and more vicious than other dogs. My dog also has a position on this....of identical importance as Canada's. Canada also took a position on Kyoto....we all know how that worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barts Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 My dog also has a position on this....of identical importance as Canada's.Canada also took a position on Kyoto....we all know how that worked out. Can you muster anything but specious arguments? Canada also had a position on Apartheid and we all know-perhaps with the exception of you-how that worked out. Canada also had a position on the American hostages held by Iran and we all know-perhaps with the exception of you-how that workd out. Canada also has a position on Afghanistan and we all know-perhaps with the exception of you-how that's working out. Give my regards to your dog, perhaps he can assist you next time in composing your comments. It would be an improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) Can you muster anything but specious arguments? Only when I feel like it. Canada also had a position on Apartheid and we all know-perhaps with the exception of you-how that worked out. However, its larger investment was in the Boer Wars! Canada also had a position on the American hostages held by Iran and we all know-perhaps with the exception of you-how that workd out. As stated before your rookie tenure here, I would have rathered been an American than a fake Canadian. Canada also has a position on Afghanistan and we all know-perhaps with the exception of you-how that's working out. Afghanistan is not the Middle East. Give my regards to your dog, perhaps he can assist you next time in composing your comments. It would be an improvement. So what's your excuse? Edited January 11, 2009 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Almost every nation has a "dog in this fight", which is why both Harper and Ignatieff have commented on it, and taken the positions they have in favour of Israel.Some dogs just happen to be bigger and dumber and more vicious than other dogs. Put in plain language - Palestinians are not dogs...this problem arises from the cultural heritage of specialness and exclusivness that the Jews proudly display - as if they are god's people that the rest of the world are earthly infidels - or dogs. I could never understand how the Jewish community got away with their racism for so long. If you want peace in the middle east - then make sure that Israel never returns to the day when Palistine was just a labour camp suppling a cheap and abused work force - this class system that came about - devides these semites - It's time that Israel started sharing the wealth - as I said before the stereo typical Jewish cheapness and materialism is real - and someone should mention to the Jews - as my dad used to say "THERE ARE OTHERS" - They have to become civilized and part of the human community - eventually! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 It's time that Israel started sharing the wealth - as I said before the stereo typical Jewish cheapness.... Dude...if I was from Canada, I wouldn't go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Dude...if I was from Canada, I wouldn't go there. I battled it out in court with a Jewish agency for five full years and learned one thing - they are sissies..and they did all they could to protect their interests including lieing and creating convoluted evidence - Funny though - they did not "get a good Jewish law firm" - They hired an upscale anglo firm ---- I lost respect for the Jewish community - they were willing to provide a letter of apology but were not willing to cough up the cash....I am not anti-semetic - I am anti-bad behaviour....yes it is dangerous to even utter what I do in regard to the Jews....they really let me down...Seriously speaking...I hope the best for them - but their days of privledge are coming to an end....And for those that think that the Jews control the world ----that's a crock - They in part are used as henchmen by the anglo elite - so I really don't blame them for anything...having said that.....I am not afraid of being branded an anti-semite - One of the methods they used in court was to spread rumors that we were white supremists...no way in hell did we have a chance when this ruse was used ----yes I am bitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 .....I am not afraid of being branded an anti-semite - One of the methods they used in court was to spread rumors that we were white supremists...no way in hell did we have a chance when this ruse was used ----yes I am bitter. Or cheap? Tell us about their days of privilege, Grandpa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyStone Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 I battled it out in court with a Jewish agency for five full years and learned one thing - they are sissies..and they did all they could to protect their interests including lieing and creating convoluted evidence - Funny though - they did not "get a good Jewish law firm" - They hired an upscale anglo firm ---- I lost respect for the Jewish community - they were willing to provide a letter of apology but were not willing to cough up the cash....I am not anti-semetic - I am anti-bad behaviour....yes it is dangerous to even utter what I do in regard to the Jews....they really let me down...Seriously speaking...I hope the best for them - but their days of privledge are coming to an end....And for those that think that the Jews control the world ----that's a crock - They in part are used as henchmen by the anglo elite - so I really don't blame them for anything...having said that.....I am not afraid of being branded an anti-semite - One of the methods they used in court was to spread rumors that we were white supremists...no way in hell did we have a chance when this ruse was used ----yes I am bitter. As a tip, If you are going to say that you aren't an anti-semite, you probably don't want to include gross generalizations about Jewish people in the same post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyStone Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 I battled it out in court with a Jewish agency for five full years and learned one thing - they are sissies..and they did all they could to protect their interests including lieing and creating convoluted evidence - Funny though - they did not "get a good Jewish law firm" - They hired an upscale anglo firm ---- I lost respect for the Jewish community - they were willing to provide a letter of apology but were not willing to cough up the cash....I am not anti-semetic - I am anti-bad behaviour....yes it is dangerous to even utter what I do in regard to the Jews....they really let me down...Seriously speaking...I hope the best for them - but their days of privledge are coming to an end....And for those that think that the Jews control the world ----that's a crock - They in part are used as henchmen by the anglo elite - so I really don't blame them for anything...having said that.....I am not afraid of being branded an anti-semite - One of the methods they used in court was to spread rumors that we were white supremists...no way in hell did we have a chance when this ruse was used ----yes I am bitter. As a tip, If you are going to say that you aren't an anti-semite, you probably don't want to include gross generalizations about Jewish people in the same post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 As a tip,If you are going to say that you aren't an anti-semite, you probably don't want to include gross generalizations about Jewish people in the same post. I agree...if he wants to say such things, better to have real freedom of speech first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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