Public Sector Employees (MANAGEMENT AND BARGAINING UNIT)

[eyeball]

The secrecy level of the public services is almost entirely due to the demand of the politicians that nothing be done or said or written or even suggested which might cause political difficulties for the politicians.

I've suggested for years that we monitor politcians. From where I'm sitting it looks like the biggest demand that nothing be done that might make politicians accountable is actually coming from voters, especially those who tilt rightward.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Unspoken truths are the hallmarks of government, there is no doubt of that. They rarely speak truthfully to each other let alone the public. That is the reason for making them accountable, giving them some real responsibility.

Lets face it folks, these trough hogs have an easy ride on the taxpayers dime. Its time to demand a little effort from them, if they can't handle the heat then they will want out of the kitchen. Give every last one of the elected officials a job, and trim the time off to that of the senior bureaucrat they displace.

If we eliminate the patronage appointments, lets see how many back stabbing yes people remain to do the dirty work of the "clean" politician. This will go a long ways to combat corruption.

[eyeball]

Unspoken truths are the hallmarks of government, there is no doubt of that.

I'd say these along with mis-truths, outright lies and worst of all, willful ignorance, are the hallmarks of personal cowardice and lack of character. Governments are just things, its what we do with them that matters.

They rarely speak truthfully to each other let alone the public. That is the reason for making them accountable, giving them some real responsibility.

I would have thought the reason was so we could better govern our own governance.

Lets face it folks, these trough hogs have an easy ride on the taxpayers dime. Its time to demand a little effort from them, if they can't handle the heat then they will want out of the kitchen. Give every last one of the elected officials a job, and trim the time off to that of the senior bureaucrat they displace.

We're the ones that need the biggest slap upside the head alright. We need to respect ourselves if we ever expect our representatives to follow suit.

If we eliminate the patronage appointments, lets see how many back stabbing yes people remain to do the dirty work of the "clean" politician. This will go a long ways to combat corruption.

I still think a wearable MP-cam would go a lot farther.

I think a little humility and sense of forgiveness for politicians is also in order. These people work in close proximity to the most morally corrosive things known to mankind, power and wealth. Asking people to work under such conditions without the protection of oversight is like asking people to work near nuclear reactors without shielding. Its just asking for trouble.

[Brunopolis]

There is a difference between politicians. OBviously a 25% pay cut for politicians is not nearly enough.

Great idea! Let's pay the politicians who make decisions on the order of millions(sometimes billions) of dollars peanuts! Then I'm sure we'll get the cream of the crop right? A typical Ottawa councilor makes 87,500 dollars a year. Ontario teachers can now cap out at over 80,000. I think regarding the importance of the position the salaries here seem out of whack.

Just because we do not like politicians doesn't mean we should pay them little. They do a very important job and we should pay them accordingly. Encouraging politicians to take "extra perks" because they have a terrible salary compared to their education/importance level is ridiculous and encourages corruption. The last thing we need is to have our elected officials start worrying excessively about their personal finances while in office.

If anything I would go so far to say that our elected officials should have their salary raised and get a further increase when they get re-elected.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I must agree. Pay them more and demand more from them. Its time to sort out the line cooks from the chefs. There are enough of these elected officials to do all the work, so how is it that they never seem to be working. Granted the cabinet guys have actual functions, but the back bench and the opposition do nothing. It is time to give them something to do, after all we pay them.

[Jack Weber]

I just lost 45% of my operating budget. I'm dealing with it. I'm underpaid too. I earn $120/hr for the company, and make a fraction of it. I don't cry about it.

You should!You're being ripped off!

You're company exists because of the products or services you,and your fellow employee's,provide!No one comes there for the personality of management.

In otherwords,you are the company.

Organize..And teach the clowns who are robbing you,and your family,of the wages you should be correctly making a serious lesson!!!!!

[bush_cheney2004]

...Organize..And teach the clowns who are robbing you,and your family,of the wages you should be correctly making a serious lesson!!!!!

Yeah...you can show them! Nevermind that you don't have the capital or business acumen to sustain viability over the long haul, but it will sure feel good for at least a week!

[Jack Weber]

Yeah...you can show them! Nevermind that you don't have the capital or business acumen to sustain viability over the long haul, but it will sure feel good for at least a week!

Hogwash...Money grubbing bullies always break!!!!!

[bush_cheney2004]

Hogwash...Money grubbing bullies always break!!!!!

...and "money grubbing" labor can only whine when they screw the golden goose.

[Progressive Tory]

"No, I think they should have a raise, and increase their benefits and entitlements"

I couldn't really answer this since there is no vote for the status quo. Right from wage cut to wage increase.

Canada needs good union jobs. It's those employees who pay the bulk of the income tax and have the best spending power, to keep the economy moving and add GST revenue. An across the board wage cut would almost certainly create another economic nose dive.

Benefit packages help to keep providers in business and prevent drain on social programs.

We need to look at the big picture. It's the middle class that carry the economy and often good union jobs that create the middle class.

[madmax]

Great idea! Let's pay the politicians who make decisions on the order of millions(sometimes billions) of dollars peanuts! Then I'm sure we'll get the cream of the crop right? A typical Ottawa councilor makes 87,500 dollars a year. Ontario teachers can now cap out at over 80,000. I think regarding the importance of the position the salaries here seem out of whack.

Wages are falling across North America, on both sides of the border. The Public Sector will not be immune to these changes over the next 10 years. The changes are coming at a faster pace then most people can grasp and they will be here with us for a long time.

Obviously Ottawa City Councillors, and teachers are making a significant amount of money, disproportionate to the workload they handle and will soon be out of the reality of private sector wages. THere was a time when a country or Province could sustain these well paying positions. Those days are a thing of the past in the new economy.

Just because we do not like politicians doesn't mean we should pay them little.

I like politicians. I like many politicians. I didn't say "pay them little" I suggest we continue to pay them very well. And a 25% cut to wages would maintain a high standard of living for our civil servants. Simply keeping them inline with the private sector. Removing the Pension Plans and Benefits and allowing the employees to purchase their own is the way things are done today.

They do a very important job and we should pay them accordingly. Encouraging politicians to take "extra perks" because they have a terrible salary compared to their education/importance level is ridiculous and encourages corruption. The last thing we need is to have our elected officials start worrying excessively about their personal finances while in office.

You can't be serious. Encouraging Politicians to take "Extra Perks" because they have "TERRIBLE SALARY"

Public sector employees and politicians do not have terrible salaries.

If anything I would go so far to say that our elected officials should have their salary raised and get a further increase when they get re-elected.

They do get an increase. It is called a gold plated pension plan.

Thanks for voting.

[madmax]

I'm not voting...both options strike me as draconian.

You find a wage increase is "Draconian"?

[DrGreenthumb]

"No, I think they should have a raise, and increase their benefits and entitlements"

I couldn't really answer this since there is no vote for the status quo. Right from wage cut to wage increase.

Canada needs good union jobs. It's those employees who pay the bulk of the income tax and have the best spending power, to keep the economy moving and add GST revenue. An across the board wage cut would almost certainly create another economic nose dive.

Benefit packages help to keep providers in business and prevent drain on social programs.

We need to look at the big picture. It's the middle class that carry the economy and often good union jobs that create the middle class.

Whatever happened to all the good progressive's that used to control your party? Please tell me you don't vote for Harper.

[madmax]

Deleted

Edited December 28, 2008 by madmax

[madmax]

Unspoken truths are the hallmarks of government, there is no doubt of that. They rarely speak truthfully to each other let alone the public. That is the reason for making them accountable, giving them some real responsibility.

Lets face it folks, these trough hogs have an easy ride on the taxpayers dime. Its time to demand a little effort from them, if they can't handle the heat then they will want out of the kitchen. Give every last one of the elected officials a job, and trim the time off to that of the senior bureaucrat they displace.

If we eliminate the patronage appointments, lets see how many back stabbing yes people remain to do the dirty work of the "clean" politician. This will go a long ways to combat corruption.

And this is the side most people don't talk about...

Very interesting.

[Mr.Canada]

Whatever happened to all the good progressive's that used to control your party? Please tell me you don't vote for Harper.

They formed the BQ. Show some examples of policy that Harper brought in that is socially conservative.

[Brunopolis]

Wages are falling across North America, on both sides of the border. The Public Sector will not be immune to these changes over the next 10 years. The changes are coming at a faster pace then most people can grasp and they will be here with us for a long time.

Obviously Ottawa City Councillors, and teachers are making a significant amount of money, disproportionate to the workload they handle and will soon be out of the reality of private sector wages. THere was a time when a country or Province could sustain these well paying positions. Those days are a thing of the past in the new economy.

I like politicians. I like many politicians. I didn't say "pay them little" I suggest we continue to pay them very well. And a 25% cut to wages would maintain a high standard of living for our civil servants. Simply keeping them inline with the private sector. Removing the Pension Plans and Benefits and allowing the employees to purchase their own is the way things are done today.

You can't be serious. Encouraging Politicians to take "Extra Perks" because they have "TERRIBLE SALARY"

Public sector employees and politicians do not have terrible salaries.

They do get an increase. It is called a gold plated pension plan.

Thanks for voting.

Sorry, I was not being very clear. When I said terrible salaries I meant our elected officials which are responsible for massive important projects. I wasn't referring to public sector employees which I do believe earn too much. I didn't mention the typical public sector(teachers, bus drivers, plow operators, etc) because most of them are overpaid for the work that they do. At least in comparison to the private work force.

[DrGreenthumb]

They formed the BQ. Show some examples of policy that Harper brought in that is socially conservative.

Hmm maybe that is why other than seperation, I mostly like BQ policy. There is no denying that quebec is a lot different than the rest of the country. I hope we always have a french quebec within Canada, largely because it allows me to take my family on vacation what ammounts to a french speaking nation right on my own doorstep. Going to quebec IS almost like visiting a foriegn country for most Canadians, and I think most of us like it that way.

C26 is socially conservative

c-51 is socially conservative

unborn victims of crime act is socially conservative

Allowing a vote on gay marriage after the supreme court granted rights to gays was socially conservative

Removing pay equity for women is socially conservative

[madmax]

C26 is socially conservative

c-51 is socially conservative

unborn victims of crime act is socially conservative

Allowing a vote on gay marriage after the supreme court granted rights to gays was socially conservative

Mr. Canada got his threads mixed up and started talking about religion in a wages and benefit thread.

When dealing with contraction, it is possible that there is no middle ground. That it is reasonable for Public Sector Employees to expect a wage increase. But that the position of the government... terrible fiscal management combined with a shrinking economy, and a growing gap between private and public sector wages are going to lead to concessions from the public sector.

The public sector is going to come under scrutiny from the private sector. All levels of service are to be analysed and the wage gap will be addressed.

Some people lean to helping the public sector. The more people become aware of the wages, benefits and the short number of hours worked, along with perks such as getting breakfast because you showed up for the "early 8:30am" meeting, the more they are unlikely to defend the public sector, when compared to their own situation.

[madmax]

Look where we are today..... Cuts towards the public sector.

[Michael Hardner]

mm, I don't understand your post.

"Should" the public service take cuts ? Sure, they "should". Lots of things "should" happen. I "should" be a famous political pundit, but instead I'm an earnest, sweaty, MLW poster, posting out of my basement like the rest of you.

[ironstone]

Fact is,public servants are very well paid considering the actual amount of work they do.Why should they be immune from the pain those of us in the private sector are feeling?PSAC and all of the other numerous gov't unions need a reality check.We in the private sector pretty much carry the load of our massive,bloated gov't.I always remember my fathers first day in plant engineering at NRC.He told me they were supposed to start at 8am.When 10am came around,he asked "shouldn't we have started some time ago?",another piped up,"hey,what's your hurry?" Ahhh,the gov't work ethic.Did I mention it's also very easy to steal from the gov't?I say cut away...

[Bonam]

This poll is terrible. I think public sector unions are a huge mistake and that in many cases they probably are overpaid for what they do, but a 25% arbitrary across the board pay cut is senseless. Cuts may be appropriate in some parts of the public sector, and the magnitude of those cuts would vary case by case. In others, it's even possible that raises are merited.

For example, bus drivers may indeed be overpaid, but I would certainly disagree with the statement that teachers are. The quality of education is extremely important and we need to attract bright, motivated, and enthusiastic people to be teachers. With the wages teachers earn now, this is rare, as such high caliber people can make much more in other jobs. Of course, the salary a teacher earns should be determined based on merit rather than seniority, but that's another major problem with having unions.

[Topaz]

Since we are looking at really the civil services of this country lets start at the top and work our way down. Lets start with the politicans who make the laws, that can and has made some Canadians to lose their jobs because of polices made, like the forestry industry for one. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories