kuzadd Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 It was 7.30 on a hot July morning when the plane came swooping low over the remote ravine. Below, a bridal party was making its way to the groom's village in an area called Kamala, in the eastern province of Nangarhar, to prepare for the celebrations later that day.The first bomb hit a large group of children who had run on ahead of the main procession. It killed most of them instantly. A few minutes later, the plane returned and dropped another bomb, right in the centre of the group. This time the victims were almost all women. Somehow the bride and two girls survived but as they scrambled down the hillside, desperately trying to get away from the plane, a third bomb caught them. Hajj Khan was one of four elderly men escorting the bride's party that day. "We were walking, I was holding my grandson's hand, then there was a loud noise and everything went white. When I opened my eyes, everybody was screaming. I was lying metres from where I had been, I was still holding my grandson's hand but the rest of him was gone. video at link, for you viewing 'pleasure' Afghanistan, the war will not be won, Canada is wasting taxpayer dollars and participating in the death of innocents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 (edited) I am not sure why I am even bothering responding. I appreciate your Hanoi Jane, Toyko Rose broadcast. "Go home Joe you can not win". Here is the problem Tokyo; 1. the soldiers in Afghanistan contrary to what you think did not go there to "WIN"-this concept of winning or losing is your own and what you assume others also believe in-those are your thoughts that you now try project on others; 2.Canadian soldiers were not drafted-they are there because they are committed to helping build a country free of violence-no more, no less; 3. yes I do not doubt you are convinced that Afghanistan will always be a society run by violence and tribes and that will never be changed by "foreigners"; 4. yes most of us including Canada's fighting soldiers are intelligent enough to know a conventional war is not being fought and so a conventional war ending will never happen; 5. yes most of us are well aware that the interest in Afghanistan is deeply related to securing oil pipelines as well as some people believing by keeping the theatre of confrontation in Afghanistan it diminishes its likelihood of coming to our borders-yes we all know that thank you. Yankee go home. GI Joe go home. Been there. Done that. Heard it. Now tell me Kuzadd when do you stop using oil, gas, and living the lifestyle you do? You planning to move to Kabul and become a fundamentalist Muslim and live by the values of these warlords? Do you think you live the lifestyle you do in a vacum?....that it just happens? Could it be the lifestyle and values you take for granted and allow you to write the thread you do are also part of the reason we have such conflicts? You think it is as black and white as GI Joe picking on peasants? You probably do. Canadian soldiers as well as some of us Canadians are capable of seeing many things Kuzadd not just your black and white constructs. The difference between us is while I may question the military tactics or assumptions of politicians, I do not confuse it for the spirit and value in each and every soldier. You underestimate the idealism in our soldiers. But that is o.k. They probably don't take people like you seriously-I can not imagine they take what we civilians have to say so far removed from their reality seriously when it is negative. Excuse me but I have only positive thoughts and wishes for our soldiers. Until I readjust my way of life and you do yours-they do what they do because you live the way you do and take it for granted as a given-that is just comes without anyone sacrificing for it to be. Before I criticize these soldiers, I have some readjusting of my own lifestyle to take care of. Edited December 18, 2008 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Let me tell you a story. As is know with out Iraq - there would be no Canadian Afghani engagement. What began as fraud should not end as fraud. About 18 months ago I gained the trust of a young American intelligence officer. He was missing and eye and leg due to his tour of Iraq in the early stages. He explained to me that during the time he was billeted in one of Saddams palaces - they got a call to investigate a car bombing. He went to interview the video store guy - the sausage salesman..and others. It was reported to him by a trusted local, that a car pulled up and two men got out and left - then the explosion. The men were in casual western Arab clothing - they were over heard speaking to each other as they walked away - they were American operatives. The young and idealist intelligence officer presented his report on the incident....as his commander read the report - he came to the line that stated that the suspects looked and acted American - the officer blotted out that line and inserted "Arab looking guys" - That was the turning point in the attitude of the intelligence officer - he lost faith immediately in the mission. Makes you wonder if this thing was perlonged intentionally to get the maximum profits out of the Iraqi affair - If there is this kind of corruption in Iraq then surely it exists in Afghanistan - for this simple reason - to continue with the "troop surge" - would be a continued murderous endevour on the part of our government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuzadd Posted December 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 (edited) Rue: I skimmed through what you wrote, which boils down to..... the west went there to do good, like the "do gooders' we like to think we are. freedom, woman's rights, were not quitters, we get the job done, rah rah... and of course a number of rude assumptions.. par for the course with yourself. I don't quite know where you got off on this rant of being critical of soldiers but, whatever floats your boat. I'll quote Eric Margolis here "Most Europeans see the Afghan conflict as a 19th-century style colonial war for regional domination and resources. By contrast, Americans are still being misled by their corporate media and posturing politicians of both parties into believing the seven-year U.S. occupation of Afghanistan is a noble `anti-terrorism' mission that is defending women's rights and rebuilding a ravage nation instead of another brutal grab for energy, this time from the Caspian Basin. or this Both Georgia and Afghanistan are seen as energy bridges – transit routes for the export of land-locked hydrocarbons.Washington has long promoted a gas pipeline south from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan and India. It would pass through Kandahar. Realistic or not, construction is planned to start in 2010, and Canadian Forces are committed until December 2011. Richard Boucher, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State, said last year: "One of our goals is to stabilize Afghanistan," and to link South and Central Asia "so that energy can flow to the south." Unwittingly or willingly, Canadian forces are supporting American goals. the soldiers are committed to a pipeline.... this is not a do gooder mission in any way shape or form. invasion and occupation were not necessary, unless the goal was domination and control. Which it was. (and you at least acknowledge) I guess it is a coincidence the canadia soldiers are in Kandahar, on the pipelines route? Rebuilding for the pipeline I guess, but not for the people. Which makes a do-gooder ideal nonsense. Edited December 18, 2008 by kuzadd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Womans' rights sure. Woman have no rights in our nation so how the hell are we supposed to install rights that we do not have in another nation...Look at the family law system we have in Canada - instead of protecting the woman and making sure the family surives under the Family Service act - clever parasitic lawyers commodify the female - dupe her and lead her down the garden path to "freedom" from some supposed abuser...It's an abuse of womans rights...They take the womans real wealth away which is husband and family..she goes from a good middle class existance to living in some hovel like public housing and her children on Ritalin - real nice ..... as for those "Taliban" that ALL beat their wives and ALL beat the hell out of young females for showing an ankle - This is rare - but we sensationalize isolated incidents and expand them into a reason for going to war....and as for the war on terror - If our friends to the south would stop terrorizing the rest of the world - maybe the terrorists would stop fighting them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 kuzadd: do you really believe every US/Allied soldier is in Iraq and/or Afghanistan to kill "innocents"? ------------------------------------------- If everything isn't black and white, I say, 'Why the hell not?' ---John Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 kuzadd: do you really believe every US/Allied soldier is in Iraq and/or Afghanistan to kill "innocents"?------------------------------------------- If everything isn't black and white, I say, 'Why the hell not?' ---John Wayne That's not the point - Ivading the weakest most backward nation on earth is cowardly - This is a war for rich hobbyists...it's and adventure not a war - Why don't you go and invade Russia - there are lots of drunks there that beat their wives...but of course you would not..because instead of sending back expensively packaged indivudual corpses you would need container ships for the dead...real high way of heros...chasing around a bunch of half starved bearded goat herders and killing them - sure they are nasty - but so is a fox - maybe the new uniform for our troops should be bright red...and each platoon should have some Beagle dogs to sniff out the primatives...They should have never outlawed the fox hunt in England Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuzadd Posted December 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 (edited) It is NOT about what I "believe", it is about the FACT that it is a happening. Edited December 18, 2008 by kuzadd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 It is NOT about what I "believe", it is about the FACT that it is a happening. Every soldier shares the blame for these few events regardless of their participation? Is the same true of the Iraqi and Afghani armies? How about the enemy? How's their score card look? ----------------------------------------------- One time they traded me for seven horses. Seven stunt horses. ---Jimmy Stewart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Kuzadd believes that it is a fact.....kuzadd also believe in the Amero too and the NAU... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Every soldier shares the blame for these few events regardless of their participation? Is the same true of the Iraqi and Afghani armies? How about the enemy? How's their score card look?----------------------------------------------- One time they traded me for seven horses. Seven stunt horses. ---Jimmy Stewart I firmly disagree. The common soldier does not have an inkling on how the sytem works - most are dupes...and very trusting of our system. They go to fight because the actually believe in what they are doing - once there - madness can set in and barbarity raises it's ugly head...those to blame are not the footmen...nor the henchman...The ones that finance terror are to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuzadd Posted December 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 The comparisons to "others"? How about "them" aren't they bad too? We aren't any worse then "them" I see the invaders apologist line is out in full force. Apparently the truth hurts, but it still doesn't change the facts. The invading forces are killing innocent civilians. For Pipelines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 For the great and powerful -influential and super rich - killing is a sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 The comparisons to "others"? How about "them" aren't they bad too? We aren't any worse then "them" I see the invaders apologist line is out in full force. Apparently the truth hurts, but it still doesn't change the facts. The invading forces are killing innocent civilians. For Pipelines. I know the overwhelming number of civilian deaths are intentional rather than accidental (as per the wedding party)...and it certainly isn't the US/Allies that are doing the butchery. Most civilian deaths come from bomb blasts outside mosques/markets. ----------------------------------------------------- It's a Daisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I know the overwhelming number of civilian deaths are intentional rather than accidental (as per the wedding party)...and it certainly isn't the US/Allies that are doing the butchery. Most civilian deaths come from bomb blasts outside mosques/markets.----------------------------------------------------- It's a Daisy. Wow - those are some real clever goat herders - They sit in their very high tech labs and create the most powerful up to date explosives on the planet...and all done in a cave - wow! Who's shipping this stuff in that blasts the hell out of innocent people shopping or praying? That's the interesting question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 (edited) Wow - those are some real clever goat herders - They sit in their very high tech labs and create the most powerful up to date explosives on the planet...and all done in a cave - wow! Who's shipping this stuff in that blasts the hell out of innocent people shopping or praying? That's the interesting question. Iran, Pakistan, Syria....China...Russia. ----------------------------------- It's a Daisy. Edited December 18, 2008 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Iran, Pakistan, Syria....China...Russia.----------------------------------- It's a Daisy. everytime we feed him they take away some of his meds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Iran, Pakistan, Syria....China...Russia.----------------------------------- It's a Daisy. What about the stuff that was stored in Iraq - American explosives that went missing? Is it possible a few tons of the stuff got in the hands of some of the private "contractors" and was sold? .....and if Pakistan is sending it in - you would think someone would get on it diplomatically....Russia - oh well - not much you can do about the mafia taking over the Kremlin...But China - there is nothing you can say to them - that would be like attempting to get the Saudi Arabians who spawned and protected and financed Bin Ladin to admit they are bastards - not going to happen. Nations that are strong or that some of our important people are in league with can not be approached - it's taboo...someone might just lose some money - and as we know - people are expendable cash is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 A typical road side bomb would be four or so 122mm artillery shells left over from the Russians lashed together with a remote detonator to set them off. Place in trunk of car...or bury alongside the road...or under a donkey. However, some of the more recent blasts were found to be using much more modern high explosives not yet in use during the Soviet Afghanistan 'adventure'. ---------------------------------------- I see a red door and I want it painted black... ---The Rolling Stones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Galinda Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 The invading forces are killing innocent civilians.For Pipelines. Majority of killing civillians are victims of suicide bombers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moderateamericain Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Let me tell you a story. As is know with out Iraq - there would be no Canadian Afghani engagement. What began as fraud should not end as fraud. About 18 months ago I gained the trust of a young American intelligence officer. He was missing and eye and leg due to his tour of Iraq in the early stages. He explained to me that during the time he was billeted in one of Saddams palaces - they got a call to investigate a car bombing. He went to interview the video store guy - the sausage salesman..and others.It was reported to him by a trusted local, that a car pulled up and two men got out and left - then the explosion. The men were in casual western Arab clothing - they were over heard speaking to each other as they walked away - they were American operatives. The young and idealist intelligence officer presented his report on the incident....as his commander read the report - he came to the line that stated that the suspects looked and acted American - the officer blotted out that line and inserted "Arab looking guys" - That was the turning point in the attitude of the intelligence officer - he lost faith immediately in the mission. Makes you wonder if this thing was perlonged intentionally to get the maximum profits out of the Iraqi affair - If there is this kind of corruption in Iraq then surely it exists in Afghanistan - for this simple reason - to continue with the "troop surge" - would be a continued murderous endevour on the part of our government. Sausage salesmen in Iraq Huh? I have to admit your post are at least entertaining even though fictional. Unfortunetly in this case innocents were targeted and killed by most likely US fighters. Theres nothing PBI hate worse than allied planes overhead mistaking friendlies for Tangos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 (edited) Here's a typical car comb going off...impressive. The troops use a smaller charge to set it off. Its size alarms them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csJ3qTRJKaY -------------------------------------------------------- ...an evil petting zoo? ---Dr Evil Edited December 18, 2008 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Sausage salesmen in Iraq Huh? I have to admit your post are at least entertaining even though fictional. Unfortunetly in this case innocents were targeted and killed by most likely US fighters. Theres nothing PBI hate worse than allied planes overhead mistaking friendlies for Tangos. OK the sausage insertion was not accurate - how about a Felafel counter person? But really - this story was told to me - I don't believe it's fanciful - and the source seemed credible - what are you saying - that these things never occur and that the west is pure....give me a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuzadd Posted December 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Interesting to view while in process, a thread hijacking. Sleight of hand. Don't look at the bad being done by the west, as per opening post and video clip. Quick look over here, at what "they" do. See they are bad, and "we" are the do-gooders. Fabulous, what is this called when this is done for purposes of misleading? It is clearly propogandistic in nature, displays a delusionary perception of reality. One in which the person dissipating it feels they must lie to others and themselves to be ok with the crimes perpetuated on behalf of an action that they are in agreement with. But really, maybe another thread is in order, or at least enough courtesy to discuss the op and the film clip that accompanies it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 In a free country, one can even cheer on the enemy. --------------------------------- Reg: If you want to join the People's Front of Judea, you have to really hate the Romans. Brian: I do! Reg: Oh yeah, how much? Brian: A lot! Reg: Right, you're in. ---Life of Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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