Powell Endorsement

[BC_chick]

For those of you who missed it, here is Powell in his own words. It was so moving I welled-up.... he is so eloquent and intelligent.

Bravo to this man, that's a true maverick. It must have been very difficult for him to go public with his decision.

[eyeball]

Ditch the Honkey pick the Donkey.

How long it will be until the rednecks point to this as evidence of blacks ganging up together against whitey? Even Tom Brokaw couldn't leave the question alone.

I hate to say it but race might be the main factor when many voter's lead hits the paper. Apparently its not uncommon for people to answer yes to a pollsters questions about whether they would vote for a black man before an election but after the poll that really counts is taken, the results often say otherwise.

[Riverwind]

Bravo to this man, that's a true maverick. It must have been very difficult for him to go public with his decision.

Hmm. Republicans have been abandoning McCain for couple weeks now. He was on pretty safe territory.

McCain self destructed. Obama deserves to win. Let's hope Obama does not turn into a left wing version of W who severely damaged the country with ideology driven policies. I am not optimistic given his current rhetoric but it is election time...

[bush_cheney2004]

How long it will be until the rednecks point to this as evidence of blacks ganging up together against whitey? Even Tom Brokaw couldn't leave the question alone.

Beats me...they only have about two weeks to do it. "Rednecks" get to vote too....

I hate to say it but race might be the main factor when many voter's lead hits the paper. Apparently its not uncommon for people to answer yes to a pollsters questions about whether they would vote for a black man before an election but after the poll that really counts is taken, the results often say otherwise.

Voters don't use lead anymore...it's more of a marker or touch screen experience. This has already been discussed as the "Bradley Effect" in other threads. Voting for Obama strictly because of "race" opens up all kinds of opposite and legitimate possibilities for all voters.

[BC_chick]

Hmm. Republicans have been abandoning McCain for couple weeks now. He was on pretty safe territory.

It's not 'abandoning' McCain that made him a maverick in my eyes, you're right, many other Republicans are doing the same thing.

The reason I called him a maverick is two-fold. First, he officially endorsed Obama, this is very different than merely criticising McCain. Second, he criticised the general direction the Republican party has taken, not just with negative campaigning, but also by moving too far to the right. He mentioned that he would not want to see two McCain/Palin choices for the bench.

This is a very high-ranking Republican making these statements. Who else of his stature has gone this far?

Edited October 19, 2008 by BC_chick

[bush_cheney2004]

This is a very high-ranking Republican making these statements. Who else of his stature has gone this far?

..Senator Joe Lieberman.

[Shady]

Bravo to this man, that's a true maverick. It must have been very difficult for him to go public with his decision.

LOL, maverick? If Powell endorsed McCain, that would be impressive, but this, this was the easy thing to do, not the hard. So hardly maverick like.

I hate to say it but race might be the main factor when many voter's lead hits the paper

Well, it certainly played a part in Powell's endorsement. Ask yourself what the policy differences are between Barack Obama and John Kerry. I don't remember John Kerry getting Colin Powell's endorsement. Hmm, what's different about the two?

..Senator Joe Lieberman.

Bingo. Only the Democratic Vice-Presidential candidate of 8 years ago. That's how far the party has drifted away from what it once was. FDR and Kennedy would also be Liebermanized from the current crop of Democrats.

[BC_chick]

..Senator Joe Lieberman.

Mommy Mommy, why did that woman say Republicans are the only ones endorsing Obama when Democrats have mavericks too who are endorsing McCain?

She didn't honey, she was discussing the issue with the other poster who was insinuating that there is nothing maverick these days about a Republican turning their back on Senator McCain.

Waaaa! Well, well, well, at least Dion lost!

[peter_puck]

It's not 'abandoning' McCain that made him a maverick in my eyes, you're right, many other Republicans are doing the same thing.

The reason I called him a maverick is two-fold. First, he officially endorsed Obama, this is very different than merely criticising McCain. Second, he criticised the general direction the Republican party has taken, not just with negative campaigning, but also by moving too far to the right. He mentioned that he would not want to see two McCain/Palin choices for the bench.

This is a very high-ranking Republican making these statements. Who else of his stature has gone this far?

I don't know how much of a Maverick he is. After the number of senior members of the Bush administration who have turned on the weasel, Powell's endorsement of Obama is nothing new.

[GostHacked]

I think the Colin Powell's endorsement will hurt Obama in the long run. Powell was railroaded into promoting the lies during the run up to the Iraq war. He may not have been responsible for the information, but he seemed to have gone against his better judgement and presented the so called evidence. Powell has since then come clean with his involvement in it. He knew the intelligence was wrong, but the boss will tell you what you are going to say and present.

I really don't think this will benefit Obama at all.

[Sir Bandelot]

I think the Colin Powell's endorsement will hurt Obama in the long run. Powell was railroaded into promoting the lies during the run up to the Iraq war. He may not have been responsible for the information, but he seemed to have gone against his better judgement and presented the so called evidence. Powell has since then come clean with his involvement in it. He knew the intelligence was wrong, but the boss will tell you what you are going to say and present.

I really don't think this will benefit Obama at all.

I think many people would respect him because he was doing his duty as instructed from the administration, even though he did so reluctantly. Every soldier is trained to so what they're told, not what they believe, and the fact that he later admitted it makes him look more honest to me than most are at his level. It took some courage to criticize the admin, and he may have paid for it in part by losing his position sometime thereafter. So the way I see it is, he did what was instructed to do, - a plus, and then later came clean revealing more to the world about the secretive manipulations of the Bush administration, another plus. In any case a positive endorsement from a high profile mlitary leader does help Obama.

Edit-

What is really repugnant is the amount of racism on display in many US media articles... I think it shows how deeply racism still affects the United States, and I think many places in the world where racism is *less* pervasive are watching it with great disdain. Although in some ways, bringing this out in the open is a positive step towards understanding and eliminating it. If/when Obama wins, it will also be a major positive step because the racism is on both sides, and this will help blacks to have more self-esteem and be less suspicious, and help many whites to get over it too.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

[bush_cheney2004]

Edit-

What is really repugnant is the amount of racism on display in many US media articles... I think it shows how deeply racism still affects the United States, and I think many places in the world where racism is *less* pervasive are watching it with great disdain.

And that would be where? Certainly not Canada, where "racism" is alive and well. "Racism" has always been part of America, and it would be foolish to pretend that it doesn't / shouldn't exist. As for the rest of world, America has nothing to regret when it comes to other brands of "racism" either.

Although in some ways, bringing this out in the open is a positive step towards understanding and eliminating it. If/when Obama wins, it will also be a major positive step because the racism is on both sides, and this will help blacks to have more self-esteem and be less suspicious, and help many whites to get over it too.

This is patronizing at best....if Obama wins, the Secret Service will have to work overtime. BTW, there are more than two "sides" in America.

[eyeball]

The movie A Few Good Men, which is apparently based on a true story, comes to mind.

Powell should be on trial for the same reason his superiors should be.

[Guest American Woman]

It's not 'abandoning' McCain that made him a maverick in my eyes, you're right, many other Republicans are doing the same thing.

The reason I called him a maverick is two-fold. First, he officially endorsed Obama, this is very different than merely criticising McCain. Second, he criticised the general direction the Republican party has taken, not just with negative campaigning, but also by moving too far to the right. He mentioned that he would not want to see two McCain/Palin choices for the bench.

This is a very high-ranking Republican making these statements. Who else of his stature has gone this far?

There have been a few newsworthy endorsements recently as some high-profile Republicans have publicly moved to Democratic territory. Christopher Buckley, William F. Buckley's son, endorsed Obama (and subsequently lost his column at the National Review over it). Colin Powell did the same this weekend. Republican talk show host Michael Smerconish announced he'd be voting for a Democrat for the first time in 28 years. link

I agree with you regarding Powell. I like the direct way he's stated his opinions. Just straight out said what he had to say without apology or trying to sugar coat it. We need more of that, so hopefully more will follow his lead. I do think Powell's endorsement will swing some undecided moderates over to Obama.

[Argus]

Edit-

What is really repugnant is the amount of racism on display in many US media articles... I think it shows how deeply racism still affects the United States, and I think many places in the world where racism is *less* pervasive are watching it with great disdain.

Like *where* is racism less pervasive than in the United States? Not in Africa, Asia, Latin America or the Middle East, that's for sure. Europe likes to see itself as pure and noble in this regard, but the amount of racism there goes hand in hand with the numbers of visible minorities. Where there are few, there is little. Where there are many, it can be nastier than in the US by far.

There are no racist political parties being elected to the US congress, as there are in a number of European countries, and I don't believe Black people worry when walking down the streets, that gangs of white nazis will beat them to a pulp.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Argus

[GostHacked]

This is patronizing at best....if Obama wins, the Secret Service will have to work overtime. BTW, there are more than two "sides" in America.

And that is why everything needs to be BIpartisan??

[Sir Bandelot]

Like *where* is racism less pervasive than in the United States?

"Many places in the world", includes any place where there are people who object to racism. That would even be in some places in the United States. Does that clarify it for all you all?

Edited October 20, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

[Moonlight Graham]

Powell was great on Meet The Press, except on the questions on Iraq where he doesn't regret supporting the war, and that everyone in admin thought Saddam had WMD's etc. & he was just working on the best intelligence the CIA could muster. That's B.S. Powell is awesome, minus that part. And his fatal flaw may be in his being too loyal. Sometimes you do need to refuse to follow orders, but i'd find that very hard for him being a lifelong military man.

I hope he's just still being the good soldier & not wanting to snitch on Bush & co. after the cards fell.

Does anyone have a link where Powell says that he disagreed with the report he presented at the U.N.?

[Sir Bandelot]

Sure, here you go-

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Politics/story?...5979&page=1

[Sir Bandelot]

(Race) certainly played a part in Powell's endorsement.

Isn't it interesting how, when a white person endorses a white candidate, we wouldn't call it a race issue.

[bush_cheney2004]

Isn't it interesting how, when a white person endorses a white candidate, we wouldn't call it a race issue.

Sure "we" do....see George Wallace.

[Sir Bandelot]

I meant with the exception of obvious people like that, or like David Duke. I don't think thats a valid comparison. In this case it seems to be simply because he's black, without precedent.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

[bush_cheney2004]

I meant with the exception of obvious people like that, or like David Duke. I don't think thats a valid comparison. In this case it seems to be simply because he's black, without precedent.

No matter....many "African" Americans will vote for Obama simply because he is "black" (though he really isn't). "Whites" will vote for McCain out of a countering motivation. Sometimes it's "racial" because that's what the voter wants it to be, and it's their choice.

"Whites" endorsing "whites" has certainly been called racial before. Being "black" (or white) is not a new idea, and is not even a complete understanding of racial dynamics in the the USA, Canada, or elsewhere. For some people, race even trumps gender.

[Sir Bandelot]

I think it does matter, because criticism of Powells endorsement based on his race can only have a negative backlash for John McCain, IMO. Among undecided voters, for sure. There's probably alot of military families who also respect Colin Powell, and they won't appreciate that. My view is, here is a man who's served is country, and all they do now, is call him nigger.

I stand by what I said earlier- the behaviour of certain people, in particular parts of the US media in this election, is repugnant to civilized people.

[bush_cheney2004]

I think it does matter, because criticism of Powells endorsement based on his race can only have a negative backlash for John McCain, IMO. Among undecided voters, for sure. There's probably alot of military families who also respect Colin Powell, and they won't appreciate that. My view is, here is a man who's served is country, and all they do now, is call him nigger.

No, I think you have it backwards. The political motivations for criticising Powell clearly advertise that he is not a "nigger". That what the struggle was all about you know....the right to make choices and earn criticism regardless of "race" (a social construct).

I stand by what I said earlier- the behaviour of certain people, in particular parts of the US media in this election, is repugnant to civilized people.

Fine....as Argus pointed out....the same behaviour can be found in any nation on the planet. Race baiting didn't seem to bother the Clinton campaign.