What is your take on Sarah Palin?

[WIP]

I didn't include it because it still doesn't change the meaning of what she is saying. But let's add it in.

"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right; also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

There, that only further supports my argument anyways. I don't know why you think that changes it.

She says we have to pray we are doing the right thing.

"Thats what we have to make sure that that is what we are praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's."

We have to make sure that we are praying that we are doing God's will, that this there is a plan and that it's Gods plan.

She is saying we have to be sure there is a plan, and that its Gods plan, not that "it is God's plan".

And you talk about Bill Clinton! "its Gods plan, not that "it is God's plan". Does "Gods" mean that you now have more than one god?

The problem with interpreting Sarah Palin's sermon, is that her sentences are rambling and incoherent, so a number of meanings could be derived from that paragraph quoted above.

But if you really want to understand her message, maybe you should listen to a longer clip that shows that she believes that real Christians should be able to interpret prophecy. That ought to clear up any uncertainty over whether the plan that a Christian soldier is fighting for is God's plan.

At about the 6:00 minute mark, she reads a note that was given to her and she decided to present it to the Master's Commission students, since they are told they will have the gift of prophecy:

.....it was called Ephesians 1:17, and this is what I want to pray over you guys too; that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of Glory may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him, and that spirit of revelation also including the spirit of prophecy, that God is going to tell you what is going on and is going to tell you what is going to go on, and you guys are going to have that within you and it's just going to bubble up and bubble over and it's going to pour out throughout the State of Alaska, again good good things for the State of Alaska............

So she is not praying and keeping her fingers crossed that Iraq is part of God's plan; she plainly believes that the spirit-filled Christian has the "spirit of revelation" and the "spirit of prophecy" to discern everything that comes from on high. So a Vice President Palin, or possibly a President Palin will use her gift of prophecy to discern when God wants her to lead the nation to war, or build a natural gas pipleline -- she says it's God's will to get it done at 2:10 of the video.

So, I have to ask again -- do a majority of Americans want a leader who believes that she can use her gifts of revelation and prophecy to tell what God wants?

Edited September 9, 2008 by WIP

[CANADIEN]

-she's been called a lousy parent.

Using the same criteria used regularly by social conservatives. And she is not a lousy parent.

-she's been accused of causing her baby to be Downs' Syndrome through negligence, either through working while pregnant, flying while pregnant, or flying home after her water broke.

Care to quote where someone has shown enough lack of knowledge and intelligence that they would clame that anything Palin did during her pregnancy caused her baby to have Down's syndrome? But let's face it, no matter the condition of the baby, flying for 12 hours after her water broke just so that the baby would be born at home is NOT a sign of good judgement.

-it has been argued that if she really loved her special needs baby, she would quit her job and be a full time mother.

And people arguing it are wrong. But let's not forget that social conservatives have been arguing for decades that mothers who really love their children should stay at home, no matter the children's health condition.

[CANADIEN]

Sarah Palin has not called the war in Iraq a part of God's plan. Bad enough that she prays that a n unjustified war founded on a lie be part of God's plan. As a Christian, she should already know it is not.

[betsy]

I don't know what all the hoopla is about her Christian values. So she speaks as a Christian. Her decisions in office will reflect her Christian values. Be glad she is open about it. Whether she is one "pixie-believing-pie-in-the-sky-of-a-politician-or-a-loonie" to some. American people are being given a choice whether they want a Christian VP like her sitting in office or not.

That she, quite surprisingly for a newbie - and a woman at that, has this refreshing "gift of gab," is actually what's causing this panic among those who embrace and practice the liberal religion - the religion of non-religion or of the "personally-customized" religion.

Palin is using palin language - plain language - that seems to be reaching out to everyone. Will it sway everyone? We'll have to wait and see. But so far, it is looking good.

[BubberMiley]

It's starting to shake out the extent to which Palin's candidacy is based on bold-faced lies. Not only was she for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it, she only opposed it once it was dead. But she still kept the money. In fact, she was the worst when it came to earmarks.

Evidence is also coming out that she was directly involved in Troopergate, despite her denials.

She's probably lying about being born again too.

[Shady]

A politician who truly believes there is a magic sky pixie directing any type of “plan” doesn’t get my vote of confidence. Her personal life is not relevant to the campaign; it’s her willingness to mix superstition (religion) with governing the country that should scare people off. Hiding behind some mythical “plan” that no one is privy to, or can objectively say even exists, is not the sign of a rational person.

You mean the same "magic sky pixie" that Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe in?

[moderateamericain]

Not only that but nearly the whole United States of America believes in some sort of Religious Diety. Something like 90 percent (unconfirmed). So if i was running for office, Id be praying to sky pixies myself. Not to mention ive seen too much violence throughout the world for me to believe that there isnt a devil. because how else could man come up with the sick and twisted ways we kill eachother? And if there is a devil there is a god.

Moving on from that side bar, I like the women. I fail to see how she is anti feminism. The women seems to have a good deal of "I can deal with it myself and don't need a man to do it for me" to her. Isn't that kind of a plus for feminism? I think the Lesbians are just mad because a beautiful women is a family women. (joke) Apparently family women are not Feministic enough. Id say a women who could shoot her meal is pretty damned independent? But keep on trashing her Libs you will just drive voters right into the GOP camp.

Edited September 9, 2008 by moderateamericain

[betsy]

Moving on from that side bar, I like the women. I fail to see how she is anti feminism.

Some feminists don't seem to really understand what they are fighting for. I can't understand why even now, Hillary is being claimed as the "role-model" for feminists....because she is far from that. These feminists are blinded by partisanship.

Well I don't know but ironically it seems the few high-profile women who truly shows strength and steely characters

come from the conservative lot. Anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Visible minorities and women should look to Condoleeza Rice, as an example. A woman who holds one of the most important positions in government, who meets with world leaders and brokers peace. By the way she had handled her job shows she earned it by her own merit. I don't think she was a prominent figure in the political circle before she landed that position. Feminists should be singing her praises!

Oh times had really changed. The pressure for women is high. There is this notion that being a stay-at-home mom is no longer good enough. I guess the bar set by the Feminist is so high.

Not anyone has the good fortune of becoming the First Lady just to be able to get the necessary experiences required to eventually land a seat in the Senate.

[JerrySeinfeld]

From Mark Steyn:

What was it the feminists used to say? "You can have it all." Sarah Palin is a mom, and the first female governor of her state. But the enforcers at the National Organization of Women dismiss her as "more a conservative man than she is a woman".

Golly. These days, NOW seems to have as narrow and proscriptive a view of what women are permitted to be as any old 1950s sitcom dad.

As for her beliefe in God or "God's plan", you lefty libs can debate the merits of this all day long. Remember we live in a VERY secular country here in Canada. You need to remember her chosen style of faith will play far differently, more favourably, in the US where 25% of the population describe themselves as evangelical and the rest is certainly more amenable to Christianity than your average secular post-modern Toronto/Vancouver liberal.

As for the people in the US who actually WILL give a shit, they all live in New York and California anyway - states long ago won by the Democrats.

In other words, move along to a new reason to hate her, please, because this one ain't playin.

Seen the polls lately?

[Black Dog]

Not only that but nearly the whole United States of America believes in some sort of Religious Diety. Something like 90 percent (unconfirmed). So if i was running for office, Id be praying to sky pixies myself. Not to mention ive seen too much violence throughout the world for me to believe that there isnt a devil. because how else could man come up with the sick and twisted ways we kill eachother? And if there is a devil there is a god.

If there is a devil, it is because god created it.

Moving on from that side bar, I like the women. I fail to see how she is anti feminism. The women seems to have a good deal of "I can deal with it myself and don't need a man to do it for me" to her. Isn't that kind of a plus for feminism? I think the Lesbians are just mad because a beautiful women is a family women. (joke) Apparently family women are not Feministic enough. Id say a women who could shoot her meal is pretty damned independent?

What we have here is profound lack of understanding about feminism. Being an "independent woman" is not enough tp make one a feminist hero. It also helps to not actively work to undermine some of feminisms core causes, such as abortion, birth control, LGBT rights etc. Palin opposes abortion including in cases of rape and incest. She opposes birth control, emergency contraception and is all about abstinence-only education. Nothing feminist about her.

[stevoh]

What we have here is profound lack of understanding about feminism. Being an "independent woman" is not enough tp make one a feminist hero. It also helps to not actively work to undermine some of feminisms core causes, such as abortion, birth control, LGBT rights etc. Palin opposes abortion including in cases of rape and incest. She opposes birth control, emergency contraception and is all about abstinence-only education. Nothing feminist about her.

Palin is the result of feminism and the freedom of choice they have fought so hard to obtain for women. She is not however a feminist herself because she believes in restricting the rights of other women to match her belief system.

A female leader I would respect would be fighting to ensure all women have the same right to make their own career, personal, and religious choices that Palin has. Palin believes instead in restricting those rights, and so cannot be truly called a feminist.

Palins rise to success is a result of Feminism, she is not a good representative of feminism herself however.

[guyser]

Palin opposes abortion including in cases of rape and incest. She opposes birth control, emergency contraception and is all about abstinence-only education. Nothing feminist about her.

Not to forget she and the church she attends will "pray for gays to go straight"

Ah the power of prayer. What cant it do? Can I ask for them to pray for summer 365 days a year? Cuz that would be really cool...ya know...like wow!

[AngusThermopyle]

Not to mention ive seen too much violence throughout the world for me to believe that there isnt a devil. because how else could man come up with the sick and twisted ways we kill eachother? And if there is a devil there is a god.

Wow!

What a perfect demonstration of unassailable logic!

NOT!!!

[Melanie_]

So the fact that she prays that God will help guide her in making the right choices disqualifies her as a valid candidate? So, in essence, you are saying that Christians (a demographic among which it is not uncommon to pray that God will help them to do what is right) should not hold high office.

(Note: I don't think she actually demands that "everyone" ask God what that plan might be. She asked people in a Church to ask God to help guide them to make the right choices.)

In the end these people will make their choices. They will still analyze facts like anyone else and try to make the best decision they see fit. And they will pray that God helps them to see things clearly in order to make the right decisions. Do you think that praying about it will curse it somehow? That sounds.. ummmm....superstitious.

You’re right, people will make their choices – my choice wouldn’t be to support someone who depends on her Imaginary Friend when it comes to making important decisions. Whether or not a Christian should hold office depends on whether or not they are willing to take responsibility for their choices, or instead will hide behind “God’s will” when something doesn’t work out. No, I don’t think praying will curse anything – as you say, that would be superstitious – I just don’t think it will result in divine intervention, either. It may allow someone to work something out in their heads, but if it does it is their own logical thought processes at work, not “God’s answer”.

Betsy, I agree with you. I am glad she is open about it. It allows people to make informed decisions about supporting her or not – if I were American, and had a vote, this information would be important to me in deciding against voting for her.

Yes, Shady, Obama and Biden also believe in the magic sky pixie. Lucky for me I don’t have to vote for them, either!

As for her beliefe in God or "God's plan", you lefty libs can debate the merits of this all day long. Remember we live in a VERY secular country here in Canada. You need to remember her chosen style of faith will play far differently, more favourably, in the US where 25% of the population describe themselves as evangelical and the rest is certainly more amenable to Christianity than your average secular post-modern Toronto/Vancouver liberal.

Well said, Jerry. My personal aversion to mixing superstition with governance may not be the norm south of the border. But remember, some of us secular post modern liberals live in Winnipeg, too!

[moderateamericain]

Wow!

What a perfect demonstration of unassailable logic!

NOT!!!

Its about the same as someone talking about war who has never seen it. Never said its full proof, but what do you care if i believe in Pixies in the sky? If I have to rationalize the horror that I have seen that way I guess its better than drinking?

Anyways, Moving on to a legitmate post. Blackdog, So are you saying Feminism is only about abortion and women's rights to her own body? I disagree with you because I personally believe Feminism has more to do with cultural change for women then something so simple as the abortion issue. I also believe that most people think feminism is only for people who traditionally follow Liberal or Democratic beliefs. Why is that so? Im pro womens choice for Rape and other circumstances. Yet I still look at her as a women who is bucking the trend. Why is it impossible for her to be a pioneer for women and because of one issue thats based more on her faith than anything makes her a step backwards for women?

[Shady]

Yes, Shady, Obama and Biden also believe in the magic sky pixie. Lucky for me I don’t have to vote for them, either!

So which atheist candidates do you usually vote for? Cause as far as I know, Harper, Dion, and Layton all believe in the "magical sky pixie"!

[Black Dog]

Blackdog, So are you saying Feminism is only about abortion and women's rights to her own body?

No I did not. But those are major touchstones for the feminist movement.

I disagree with you because I personally believe Feminism has more to do with cultural change for women then something so simple as the abortion issue.

They aren't exclusive.

I also believe that most people think feminism is only for people who traditionally follow Liberal or Democratic beliefs. Why is that so?

Because most of the time, that's the way it shakes out.

Yet I still look at her as a women who is bucking the trend.

In what sense? Because she was chosen because she is a woman? The word for that is tokenism.

Why is it impossible for her to be a pioneer for women and because of one issue thats based more on her faith than anything makes her a step backwards for women?

Feminism isn't about individual women achieving power or prosperity; it's about creating equality for all women. And so anyone in power, regardless of gender, who opposes women's rights (not to mention gay rights, and everything else feminists stand for) is a step backwards.

Edited September 9, 2008 by Black Dog

[Shady]

who opposes women's rights

I think that's the fundamental disagreement here. So-called women's rights, don't supercede the rights of other human beings to live.

[Black Dog]

I think that's the fundamental disagreement here. So-called women's rights, don't supercede the rights of other human beings to live.

I think this here is an answer to moderateamerican's question of why most people think feminism is only for people who traditionally follow Liberal or Democratic beliefs. Those people wouldn't refer to an individual's right to decide the circumstances of their reproduction as a "so-called" right.

[Guest American Woman]

A politician who truly believes there is a magic sky pixie directing any type of “plan” doesn’t get my vote of confidence. Her personal life is not relevant to the campaign; it’s her willingness to mix superstition (religion) with governing the country that should scare people off. Hiding behind some mythical “plan” that no one is privy to, or can objectively say even exists, is not the sign of a rational person.

The problem with your criticism is that you are denouncing religion. Palin has every right to believe in God; she doesn't have the right to bring her God into the government. We are supposed to have separation of church and state. It's no different from those who say they are acting according to Allah's plan.

[Shady]

Those people wouldn't refer to an individual's right to decide the circumstances of their reproduction as a "so-called" right.

I would agree, if individual's didn't already have the right to decide the circumstances of their reproduction. Anyone has the choice to engage in activities that can lead to pregnancy, or the chioice to take certain precautions to prevent it from occuring. However, actions have consequences.

[Black Dog]

I would agree, if individual's didn't already have the right to decide the circumstances of their reproduction. Anyone has the choice to engage in activities that can lead to pregnancy, or the chioice to take certain precautions to prevent it from occuring. However, actions have consequences.

Yep and one consequence of the failure to take precautions to prevent pregnancy or a failure of those precautions is abortion. As far as birth control goes, it's pretty damn effective.

[Melanie_]

The problem with your criticism is that you are denouncing religion. Palin has every right to believe in God; she doesn't have the right to bring her God into the government. We are supposed to have separation of church and state. It's no different from those who say they are acting according to Allah's plan.

I think we are almost saying the same thing. I have no issue with her holding private beliefs, although I don't share them (Shady - that goes for Harper, Dion, and Layton as well). But when she talks about God's plan for government, or the war, or whatever else she thinks there is a supernatural plan for, she is mixing religion with politics. You're right, it is no different from those who say they are acting according to Allah's plan; both are being influenced by their subjective mythologies.

[jdobbin]

Palin charged raped victims for rape kits.

http://www.feministing.com/archives/010930.html

under her mayoral leadership in Wasilla, Alaska, rape victims were charged for their own rape kits.

[bush_cheney2004]

Palin charged raped victims for rape kits.

http://www.feministing.com/archives/010930.html

Good....you should see what my city charges to get a car out of the impound lot!