What is your take on Sarah Palin?

[kimmy]

Perhaps you should let betsy know then.

I don't speak for Betsy, and she doesn't speak for me. In 3 years on this website together, we've never agreed on a damned thing before this week. As I said before, I hate her views, but love the woman.

Betsy and I have almost nothing in common, aside from the fact that we're both disgusted by the way the media has treated Sarah Palin.

Betsy is absolutely right about one thing though: the disgraceful tactics being used against Sarah Palin have won her a lot of sympathy from women like me.

"But before everyone gets all smug and self-righteous about the Palin selection, remember where you live. You live in a nation of gun owners and hunters. You live in a country where one out of three girls get pregnant before they are 20. You live in a nation of C students. Knocking Bush for being a C student only endeared him to the nation of C students. Knock Palin for having kids, for having a kid who's having a baby, for anything that is part of her normalness -- a normalness that looks very familiar to so many millions of Americans -- well, you do this at your own peril."

-Michael Moore.

Phrased more cynically:

"Please, nice leftist people, make more fun of Palin's church, her moose-hunting skills, her family and her small-townness. You'll really show those extremist nuts -- who really are only the tiniest fraction of the American populace -- and put them in their place! Pay no attention to this new Rasmussen poll showing that Palin is now likely the most popular politician in the nation."

-Rod Dreher

An interesting poll indicates the extent to which Obama-boosters may be shooting their guy in the foot with their over-the-top attacks on Palin:

"Over half of U.S. voters (51%) think reporters are trying to hurt Sarah Palin with their news coverage, and 24% say those stories make them more likely to vote for Republican presidential candidate John McCain in November."

-k

[Guest American Woman]

I don't speak for Betsy, and she doesn't speak for me.

Ummm, I don't believe I said you did speak for her nor did I say she speaks for you.

Once again, I don't care who you "love." This is a presidential campaign; it's not about "love." It's nice that you've both jumped on the 'the media is horrible to Palin' bandwagon, though, while virtually ignoring that same media when it applies to Hillary. But keep playing the 'Sarah as victim' card if you must. Your selective outrage says a lot. And whatever you do, don't be critical of her for the issues you hate. Let's keep politics out of it.

[guyser]

What I *AM* doing is taking issue with many of the attacks being made against her, both by people on this message board and by the media at large.

-she's been mocked for having been in the Miss Alaska pageant 24 years ago.

So minor it is not worth getting worked up over.

-she's been called a lousy parent.

-she's been accused of causing her baby to be Downs' Syndrome through negligence, either through working while pregnant, flying while pregnant, or flying home after her water broke.

Doctors have said it was monumentally stupid to fly under her circumstances. I have never heard or read anyone suggest her baby was a DS baby due to reasons posted. If someone did, then it is in the "earth is flat" category.

-she's been accused of adultery through the most circumstantial evidence imaginable.

And others before her certainly have too. Should she get a pass as a woman, or is the issue the unfounded allegations that come from being centre stage. To me, the latter is the problem.

-she's been accused of lying about her baby's parentage.

From my limited time looking into that one, it seems...seems to stem from the fact that her daughter disappeared for 5 months w mono , and then voila mom shows up w a baby....a baby the family was not aware about.

-it has been argued that if she really loved her special needs baby, she would quit her job and be a full time mother.

Anyone that thinks that is missing the fact that as VP she will provide, and have access to, so much better care than if she stayed in AK.

And then the stuff making light of her background because Alaska is a small state, or Wasilla is a small town, or because she went to a small college, also strikes a raw nerve with me.

Arkansas is a small state. I know that was an issue at one time in the past. So why not now?

She went to 5, or was it 7, small colleges. If Bush was bashed for his marks (wrongly IME) why isnt the fact that she bounced around fair game.

Dole was ridiculed for having only one useful hand. Chretien was joked about because of the palsy (?) in his face. Those are far more worrisome than her college issues.

It has the same tone we often hear in Canada when central Canadian media talk about politics or politicians from Alberta. When the Reform Party of Canada first arrived on the federal stage nearly 20 years ago, it was regarded with mockery and ridicule by the national (read, Toronto) media. As the party rose from regional upstart, to regional force, to national factor, to national government, the Toronto media's reaction went from derision, to disbelief, to anxiety, to grudging acceptance.

The Reform party was mocked because of the people in it, the least worrisome being Manning.It wasnt a collection of bright thinkers now was it?

Contradiction? Carrying a rifle and being pro-life is a contradiction? Just for the record, Rue, can you tell us whether you believe killing animals and killing humans are equivalent? And if the answer is no, then can you explain where the contradiction is?

Abortion does not = killing humans. Whole 'nother debate.

[Guest American Woman]

Good post, Guyer. Well said.

What I find amazing is that there hasn't been the same outrage-- make that no outrage at all-- from the 'Palin is a victim of sexism' crowd regarding Limbaugh's disgusting comment about 14 year old Chelsea and McCain's crude joke about Chelsea and Hillary.

[bush_cheney2004]

What I find amazing is that there hasn't been the same outrage-- make that no outrage at all-- from the 'Palin is a victim of sexism' crowd regarding Limbaugh's disgusting comment about 14 year old Chelsea and McCain's crude joke about Chelsea and Hillary.

Why are you amazed....it's a political campaign...DUH!

[kimmy]

Ummm, I don't believe I said you did speak for her nor did I say she speaks for you.

If Betsy took my position on Palin to be "rah-rah!" support for her electoral chances, it's because that's how you described my position.

Betsy just returned after an extended absence, and I can understand why she hasn't read through the 1000-post thread on Palin to get my position first hand. You, on the other hand, have been in that 1000-post thread from the beginning, and I would have hoped you'd have a better grasp of where I stand.

Once again, I don't care who you "love." This is a presidential campaign; it's not about "love." It's nice that you've both jumped on the 'the media is horrible to Palin' bandwagon, though, while virtually ignoring that same media when it applies to Hillary.

I have commented on sexism and Hilary's campaign several times. I have been vocal on this subject for years, going way back to Belinda Stronach's campaign for the leadership of the Conservative Party of Canada in 2004. ("Parliament Hill Barbie".)

If you're skeptical of my history on this topic, feel free to fire up the board's search function and prove me wrong.

Furthermore, in my view, neither Stronach nor Hilary faced either the volume or viciousness that has been directed at Palin.

But keep playing the 'Sarah as victim' card if you must. Your selective outrage says a lot. And whatever you do, don't be critical of her for the issues you hate. Let's keep politics out of it.

First off, I object to the accusation of "selective outrage". I have a history on this topic that spans a longer time than you've been on this message board. I would say that the accusation says a lot more about *you* than it says about *me*.

Secondly, why does it matter that my political views disagree with Palin's, when my focus has been not on her merits as a candidate, but on criticizing the smear campaign that's being directed at her? What, am I supposed to preface each post by saying "I don't support teaching creationism in schools, but..." ?

And lastly: Politics? Politics is the whole problem here. If people wanted to talk about issues of substance, I would be absolutely fine with that, but this has nothing to do with issues and everything to do with politics. Only politics would make "progressives" earnestly argue that a woman should leave her job to spend more time with her baby.

-k

[cybercoma]

Her religion wouldn't be a factor if she didn't introduce it into her politics by saying things like, "[the Iraq war] is a task from God," and that an Alaskan pipeline is, "God's will."

I wonder how people would react to a Muslim candidate saying this and that are, "the will of Allah".

I wonder how people would react to any candidate saying this and that are, "the will of (insert ancient deity here)".

It's utter nonsense, especially considering the post she will potentially take up.

[betsy]

So go ahead and support Palin as the "openly Christian Conservative" that you admit to being, but don't try to pass yourself and Palin off as anything else. To claim your views or hers are in sync with "feminists" is something you're not going to be able to sell to me or any other enlightened critical thinking liberal out there.

Now where did it say that I'm claiming my views are "in sync with feminists'?"

Gee....as I understood from Kimmy's post, she's just conveying an admiration for a woman who caught everyone's attention. That although Kimmy doesn't share her views, Kimmy was honest and open enough to admit how she felt.

As stated in my initial post, those two female journalists' reactions seemed to have taken Brokaw and Biden by surprise.

The grin on their faces after witnessing her "coming out swinging," as one of the journalists said, says a lot.

Well, to these journalists.... who knows, maybe there's just that element of pride simply because of "sisterhood." After all, Hillary mentioned the "Sisterhood of the Travelling Pant Suit" at the Democrat's Convention. A lot of liberal women were disappointed and angered over Hillary's defeat.

And right on cue, here comes Sarah Palin!

Women were flocking to the campaign trail of McCain and Palin (the next day after the convention), and those interviewed openly stated they came to see Palin.

Will this translate into votes? I don't know. But at least Palin is garnering a lot of interest.

I must say, she seems to be quite a hot button alright...for some.

[bush_cheney2004]

It's utter nonsense, especially considering the post she will potentially take up.

Sure, that's why the motto "In God We Trust" appears prominently on US currency and coins since at least 1957...and many times before that. It doesn't say "In Allah We Trust".

The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins.

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-shee...-we-trust.shtml

[sharkman]

It is obvious that Palin has the left very afraid by simply observing their response to her. It's been reported that the Obama campaign will be trotting out women this week in visible roles to counter her. Good luck with that.

[bush_cheney2004]

It is obvious that Palin has the left very afraid by simply observing their response to her. It's been reported that the Obama campaign will be trotting out women this week in visible roles to counter her. Good luck with that.

Yep..some of the Democrat talking heads admitted that they were not prepared for Sarah Palin and have lost momentum. Their biggest fear is that any assault on Palin may backfire if not focused very carefully on an issue unrelated to her gender, parental status, religion, gun control, energy production, education.....gee....what does that leave.....oh yeah...abortions!

[Wilber]

Thinking Hillary should be "humiliated" because Bill and Monica did wrong is a pretty Dark Ages attitude, one I'm guessing most feminists wouldn't share. I'm sure they'd put the "humiliation" squarely on those responsible.

I would think the humiliation would come from having it made the subject of world wide media for a year or more. The event was a personal issue between individuals and should have stayed that way. It's not like Monica was Mata Hari. Or Marylin Monroe.

[kimmy]

So minor it is not worth getting worked up over.

Easy for you to say. Re-read Stephen Best's first 3 posts in the "McCain picks woman..." thread. Do a quick round of Google searching for some blogs and mainstream media articles that look at this aspect of Palin's past, and tell me I'm getting worked up over nothing.

A woman who was in a beauty pageant as a young adult wants to be Vice President.

A man who was hooked on marijuana and cocaine as a young adult wants to be President.

And which one does the media decide is hilarious comedy?

From my limited time looking into that one, it seems...seems to stem from the fact that her daughter disappeared for 5 months w mono , and then voila mom shows up w a baby....a baby the family was not aware about.

From my limited time looking into that one, journalists (including the mighty CBC!) heard about a wild conspiracy theory posted at a belligerently left-wing website and decided it was too sexy not to report.

(I especially love that CBC brought this hard-hitting news story to Canadians *after* it had been debunked.)

Anyone that thinks that is missing the fact that as VP she will provide, and have access to, so much better care than if she stayed in AK.

And yet, a wide range of people from bloggers and to op-eds from major news outlets have pressed this argument with earnestness.

Arkansas is a small state. I know that was an issue at one time in the past. So why not now?

Watch Bill Maher's comedy routine again, or reflect on Obama mentioning to an audience that he's been to 49 states, "but not Alaska... I guess I'll have to go there now," to uproarious laughs, and tell me again that this aspect isn't being ridiculed by her opponents.

The Reform party was mocked because of the people in it, the least worrisome being Manning. It wasnt a collection of bright thinkers now was it?

It wasn't? If Manning was so dumb, how come the Liberals lifted so many of their policies from him, including the Clarity Act as well as Paul Martin's blueprint for balancing the books? If Reform was such a collection of dimwits, remind me again who's been the Prime Minister for the past 33 months?

We both know that Reform was ridiculed from day one as collection of hillbillies, and that this characterization only intensified when the party began to push beyond Alberta's borders. We both know that this characterization often crossed the line between the party itself and the region that launched it. We both know that it keeps popping up, especially at election time.

"Those guys, from out there, they're not like us!"

So, if you're done insulting both of our intelligences, let's move on.

Abortion does not = killing humans. Whole 'nother debate.

There is a great deal of differing opinion on the subject of whether a fetus is a human life.

However, I don't think there's a lot of people arguing that a moose is a human life. Yet, strangely, this seems to be the argument Rue is making when he accuses Palin of hypocrisy for wanting to save a fetus while she kills her own food.

-k

[jefferiah]

"Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God,"

You gotta give credit to the selective quoters of the world. I don't mean you WIP, by the way. I know you pulled that from somewhere.

What Sarah Palin said was:

"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them[u.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God..."

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/blog/inde...&post_id=93

She was asking people to pray that they were doing the right thing. That's not the same as saying it's a task from God.

Edited September 8, 2008 by jefferiah

[WIP]

You gotta give credit to the selective quoters of the world. I don't mean you WIP, by the way. I know you pulled that from somewhere.

If you double-clicked the underlined portion, you would have discovered that "somewhere;" it was an embedded link that should open the Yahoo news article I was quoting from, under a new tab.

What Sarah Palin said was:

"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them[u.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God..."

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/blog/inde...&post_id=93

She was asking people to pray that they were doing the right thing. That's not the same as saying it's a task from God.

So, where did Beck get his quote from? "According to real life" he says; what's his source for real life? And his version of the quote doesn't match with the Yahoo article that he posts as a related link -- which is the same article that I quoted from:

"Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God," she said. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

[jefferiah]

So, where did Beck get his quote from? "According to real life" he says; what's his source for real life? And his version of the quote doesn't match with the Yahoo article that he posts as a related link -- which is the same article that I quoted from:

OK, is this real enough for ya.

You'll note that this is posted by someone who is obviously anti-Sarah, so there is no conservative bias here. Also note how the person who made this video highlights the exact same part of the post people are selectively quoting, but the entire quote still stands.

I think this actually proves that the Glenn Beck quote I gave is not exact as well. Nonetheless, the meaning is closer to Beck's than to the one you found at Yahoo. Well, the meaning is the same as Beck's. Your quote changes the entire meaning of what she actually said.

Edited September 8, 2008 by jefferiah

[WIP]

A woman who was in a beauty pageant as a young adult wants to be Vice President.

A man who was hooked on marijuana and cocaine as a young adult wants to be President.

And which one does the media decide is hilarious comedy?

Let me guess: the one who thinks that it's

From my limited time looking into that one, journalists (including the mighty CBC!) heard about a wild conspiracy theory posted at a belligerently left-wing website and decided it was too sexy not to report.

(I especially love that CBC brought this hard-hitting news story to Canadians *after* it had been debunked.)

And if the "false pregnancy" story was debunked, that left an even more damning question for her to answer: why did she take a 12 hour flight home from Dallas, after her water broke?

And yet, a wide range of people from bloggers and to op-eds from major news outlets have pressed this argument with earnestness.

When a complete unknown is rolled out as the VP pick and refuses to answer questions from reporters, attacks the media, along with other Republican accomplices who refuse to explain how they have the gall to act as if someone else has been in charge of the country and made a complete disaster on every front, then they shouldn't expect the media to just roll over for them and take all their BS at face value (except for FoxNews of course)

It wasn't? If Manning was so dumb, how come the Liberals lifted so many of their policies from him, including the Clarity Act as well as Paul Martin's blueprint for balancing the books? If Reform was such a collection of dimwits, remind me again who's been the Prime Minister for the past 33 months?

We both know that Reform was ridiculed from day one as collection of hillbillies, and that this characterization only intensified when the party began to push beyond Alberta's borders. We both know that this characterization often crossed the line between the party itself and the region that launched it. We both know that it keeps popping up, especially at election time.

"Those guys, from out there, they're not like us!"

I always felt that Manning and Stockwell Day were earnest, straightforward guys who were trying clean up a corrupt system and provide some regional balance to federal politics. But honestly, outside of Alberta, Reform/Canadian Alliance candidates were a collection of hillbillies. In my riding on Hamilton Mountain, the Alliance ran a 25 year old guy who was a stockboy at my local supermarket.

But now that we have a united Conservative Party run by the Canadian equivalent of Karl Rove, it's no laughing matter!

So, if you're done insulting both of our intelligences, let's move on.

There is a great deal of differing opinion on the subject of whether a fetus is a human life.

However, I don't think there's a lot of people arguing that a moose is a human life. Yet, strangely, this seems to be the argument Rue is making when he accuses Palin of hypocrisy for wanting to save a fetus while she kills her own food.

-k

Well, a moose may not be human, but Palin has such ignorance and callous disregard for wildlife, that she wants the polar bear taken off the endangered species list, an expansion of aerial hunting -- and she's a global warming skeptic to boot! How much of her nonchalant attitude towards the environment comes from absorbing the Dominionist philosophy of "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it."

* Proposed paying a $150 bounty for the left foreleg of each dead wolf.

* Approved a $400,000 state-funded propaganda campaign to promote aerial hunting.

* Introduced legislation to make it even easier to use aircraft to hunt wolves and bears.

http://dekerivers.wordpress.com/2008/09/03...ting-of-wolves/

[jefferiah]

"I think God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gasline built. So pray for that."

That doesn't sound so bad either.

[WIP]

OK, is this real enough for ya.

You'll note that this is posted by someone who is obviously anti-Sarah, so there is no conservative bias here. Also note how the person who made this video highlights the exact same part of the post people are selectively quoting, but the entire quote still stands.

I think this actually proves that the Glenn Beck quote I gave is not exact as well. Nonetheless, the meaning is closer to Beck's than to the one you found at Yahoo. Well, the meaning is the same as Beck's. Your quote changes the entire meaning of what she actually said.

At the end of that 20 second Youtube clip she says: "our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God," as quoted in the Yahoo article. Does that mean something other than a belief that the Iraq War is divinely mandated by God?

[jefferiah]

At the end of that 20 second Youtube clip she says: "our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God," as quoted in the Yahoo article. Does that mean something other than a belief that the Iraq War is divinely mandated by God?

Don't tell me what it says at the end of that clip, halfway through her sentence. Tell me what the entire clip says.

Here I'll transcribe it word for word for you.

"Pray for our military. He's gonna be deployed in September to Iraq. Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure we are praying for...."

I just transcribed that word for word from the video. And as it turns out, it is exactly as Glenn Beck quoted it. So it seems he had a real life source.

It means she is asking them to pray that this mission is mandated by God, to pray that they are doing the right thing.

The last part of your post, you will note, says "War is divinely mandated by God." So I guess we can all start posting this as a WIP-ism.

Edited September 8, 2008 by jefferiah

[jefferiah]

deleted

Edited September 8, 2008 by jefferiah

[jefferiah]

I always felt Manning and Stockwell Day up

Selective quoting sure is fun, huh WIP?

Edited September 8, 2008 by jefferiah

[WIP]

Don't tell me what it says at the end of that clip, halfway through her sentence. Tell me what the entire clip says.

Here I'll transcribe it word for word for you.

"Pray for our military. He's gonna be deployed in September to Iraq. Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure we are praying for...."

I just transcribed that word for word from the video. And as it turns out, it is exactly as Glenn Beck quoted it. So it seems he had a real life source.

It means she is asking them to pray that this mission is mandated by God, to pray that they are doing the right thing.

The last part of your post, you will note, says "War is divinely mandated by God." So I guess we can all start posting this as a WIP-ism.

Read that quote you transcribed again. She is not asking them to pray for a sign that the war is divinely mandated, she is telling them with absolute certainty that it is a a holy war! "our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God"

Could it be any clearer? You and Glenn Beck are likely the only ones who refuse to take what she said at face value!

[jefferiah]

Read that quote you transcribed again. She is not asking them to pray for a sign that the war is divinely mandated, she is telling them with absolute certainty that it is a a holy war! "our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God"

Could it be any clearer? You and Glenn Beck are likely the only ones who refuse to take what she said at face value!

No she says

"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right; also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God."

When she says "also for this country" what do you think she means? Also what?

Also (pray) for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God.

I didn't say she was asking them to pray for a "Sign", but simply praying that they were doing the right thing. It could not be clearer.

I can't believe you actually believe yourself.

Edited September 8, 2008 by jefferiah

[jefferiah]

I can't believe you actually believe yourself.

Let me paraphrase that.

I don't believe you actually believe yourself.