McCain picks woman for VP slot

[gc1765]

Obama is on the top of the ticket.

Palin at least was a governor - which means she had constitutional authority and had to run an administration and a large office. Obama was just a senator who had to decide how to vote.

It was John McCain who said that a VP should be able to step in and take over the role of President. It was John McCain who criticized Obama for his lack of experience. God forbid anything should happen to McCain, but the average life expectancy in the U.S. is about 77 years. At the end of his first term (should he win) McCain will be 76 and has had cancer.

As for who has more experience, I don't think either of them have as much experience as other candidates (though I think they are both qualified to be President), but even some of the right-wingers here think that Obama has more experience than Palin. If John McCain wanted to make this campaign about experience, he should have picked someone who is unquestionably more experienced than Obama. Choosing Palin hurts his whole "experience" argument.

[White Doors]

Why are her political ambitions and her children's needs mutually exclusive?

Apparently because she is a conservative republican who is John McCain's running mate in the presidential elections. That's all I can deduce BD.

Thank you for being consistent - unlike alot here.

[gc1765]

Look, her kids and decision to pursue both a family and a career in politics have sweet F.A.to do with anything.

Well said.

[M.Dancer]

I'm not aware of any person--male or female--who like Sarah Palin has, in effect, abandoned a special needs baby and pregnant teenage daughter to run for high office.

Given that she hasn't abandoned them as you say, the rest is plainly nonsense.

[Stephen Best]

Why are her political ambitions and her children's needs mutually exclusive?

The issue is which particular political ambitions and which particular children's needs. I've not heard anyone say she should resign as Governor of Alaska and stay home with Trig and Bristol. What is being judged--and rightly so--is the Vice Presidency of the United States and Palin's decision to pursue it with two, not one, what most people would consider serious family situations at home. Perhaps helping a daughter through a teen pregnancy and caring for Down's Syndrome baby are trivial matters, in fact. That's what the conservatives on this thread seem to suggest.

It would seem that Sarah Palin is putting her political ambitions ahead of the needs of her Down's Syndrome baby and pregnant teenage daughter. She has every right to do that. It's her children and she can treat them however well or badly she deems appropriate. She can decide how much time she wants to devote to or waste on them. Voters will decide if they want a person who favors political fortune over family members in need as their VP.

[Black Dog]

The issue is which particular political ambitions and which particular children's needs. I've not heard anyone say she should resign as Governor of Alaska and stay home with Trig and Bristol. What is being judged--and rightly so--is the Vice Presidency of the United States and Palin's decision to pursue it with two, not one, what most people would consider serious family situations at home. Perhaps helping a daughter through a teen pregnancy and caring for Down's Syndrome baby are trivial matters, in fact. That's what the conservatives on this thread seem to suggest.

Or perhaps Palin feels that she can manage both. That's her perogative.

I can see the frustration here with conservatives who are suddenly embracing women who want to "have it all," but I don't see how taking their old stance on the matter helps.

It would seem that Sarah Palin is putting her political ambitions ahead of the needs of her Down's Syndrome baby and pregnant teenage daughter.

It "seems" that way because that's the narrative you've decicided upon. Personally, I don't see any evidence to suggest the pursuit of high office and dealing with the particular needs of her family are incompatable. Certainlt, if she becomes Veep, there'll be no shortage of dark-suited babysitters handy.

A final note: you like to carp on how your criticism of Palin for not dropping her political career and staying home with her brood is unique to this situation, but it doesn't take much of a leap of logic to go from "Plain should stay home with her kids" to "women should stay home with their kids".

[bush_cheney2004]

.... Perhaps helping a daughter through a teen pregnancy and caring for Down's Syndrome baby are trivial matters, in fact. That's what the conservatives on this thread seem to suggest.

They are neither trivial or remarkable.....people do it every day. So what's the big deal?

It would seem that Sarah Palin is putting her political ambitions ahead of the needs of her Down's Syndrome baby and pregnant teenage daughter. She has every right to do that. It's her children and she can treat them however well or badly she deems appropriate. She can decide how much time she wants to devote to or waste on them. Voters will decide if they want a person who favors political fortune over family members in need as their VP.

Correct....we've already said that many times. Inflating the significance of a daughter of almost majority age and an infant (special needs or not) will not dissuade her or her supporters. How many other women (certainly not men) will you exclude from such a political opportunity?

[Stephen Best]

A final note: you like to carp on how your criticism of Palin for not dropping her political career and staying home with her brood is unique to this situation, but it doesn't take much of a leap of logic to go from "Plain should stay home with her kids" to "women should stay home with their kids".

That's how your logic leaps, not mine. In fact, rarely can one logically leap from the particular to the general. For the simple reason that the particular is usually an insignificant statistical sample. Also, you can rarely leap from the general to the particular. Research may show that men are generally, on average, physically stronger than women, but it doesn't follow that any particular man is stronger than any particular woman.

You should be careful where you leap your logic. It may not be logical at all.

[guyser]

All I can say is that if I had a DS baby, and a pregnant teenage daughter I would be much better able to provide for them as VP than anything other job.

Resources at her fingertips galore.

Of course, her family is none of our business apart from an interest angle.

[Stephen Best]

Inflating the significance of a daughter of almost majority age and an infant (special needs or not) will not dissuade her or her supporters.

It's not her and Republican supporters that Palin and McCain need to concern themselves with. They need to concern themselves with people who are not supporters, but might give them consideration.

[Stephen Best]

All I can say is that if I had a DS baby, and a pregnant teenage daughter I would be much better able to provide for them as VP than anything other job.

Resources at her fingertips galore.

Of course, her family is none of our business apart from an interest angle.

Maybe that's why she accepted McCain's offer to be VP. She needs the job and pay increase to raise Trig and support Bristol. Is that why, if you're American, you'll be giving her your support on election day?

[Black Dog]

That's how your logic leaps, not mine. In fact, rarely can one logically leap from the particular to the general.

Actually one can, and with great ease, especially in this case.

For the simple reason that the particular is usually an insignificant statistical sample. Also, you can rarely leap from the general to the particular. Research may show that men are generally, on average, physically stronger than women, but it doesn't follow that any particular man is stronger than any particular woman.

So where is the research supporting your conclusion that Palin alone among working mothers with challenging family issues must sacrifice either family or career? And why, pray tell, are the same forces which compel her, in your view, to choose one or the other not applicable to other working mothers? What, in other words, is so goddamn special about Palin that she and she alone is subject to your approbation for her ambition?

Edited September 3, 2008 by Black Dog

[Stephen Best]

Actually one can, and with great ease, especially in this case.

So where is the research supporting your conclusion that Palin alone among working mothers with challenging family issues must sacrifice either family or career? And why, pray tell, are the same forces which compel her, in your view, to choose one or the other not applicable to other working mothers? What, in other words, is so goddamn special about Palin that she and she alone is subject to your approbation for her ambition?

And that "one" is you.

What's so special about Palin? She wants to be Vice President of the United States and she has a new baby with Down's Syndrome and a teenage daughter who's pregnant. That makes her "goddamn special", at least I think so and so do many, many others. How many people do you know who have been in similar circumstances.

Where "pray tell" did I suggest that "working mothers with challenging family issues must sacrifice either family or career"? Each working mother or father and family has unique issues they confront every day. We're talking about Palin's situation, or at least I am. What are you talking about?

In general, I'm fully supportive of women having it all. Ask my wife and daughter. But each situation is different. Sometimes you have to put personal ambition on hold because someone needs you. Perhaps there's more to Palin's decision, but at the moment it seems that her personal ambition takes precedence over both her children and her country.

Just for the record, I am not alone in questioning Palin's choice. The media and forums like this one are filled with people doing the same--men and women.

[Oleg Bach]

And that "one" is you.

What's so special about Palin? She wants to be Vice President of the United States and she has a new baby with Down's Syndrome and a teenage daughter who's pregnant. That makes her "goddamn special", at least I think so and so do many, many others. How many people do you know who have been in similar circumstances.

Where "pray tell" did I suggest that "working mothers with challenging family issues must sacrifice either family or career"? Each working mother or father and family has unique issues they confront every day. We're talking about Palin's situation, or at least I am. What are you talking about?

In general, I'm fully supportive of women having it all. Ask my wife and daughter. But each situation is different. Sometimes you have to put personal ambition on hold because someone needs you. Perhaps there's more to Palin's decision, but at the moment it seems that her personal ambition takes precedence over both her children and her country.

Just for the record, I am not alone in questioning Palin's choice. The media and forums like this one are filled with people doing the same--men and women.

I give my blessing and praise to any family that has a 15 year old that is about to give birth - what would be better? To abort a family member - anglos are a dying race.

[M.Dancer]

Just for the record, I am not alone in questioning Palin's choice. The media and forums like this one are filled with people doing the same--men and women.

“Let me be as clear as possible,” Obama said. “I think people’s families are off-limits, and people’s children are especially off-limits. This shouldn’t be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin’s performance as governor or her potential performance as a vice president.”

[Oleg Bach]

If the matriarch - dragged the pregnant daughter off to the abortion provider that provides nothing of real value - I would totally disrespect this left over 50s attitude of shame....let the child live and let America live again. Besides - McCain needs a new body - may as well use a female one - what a loser.

[bush_cheney2004]

What's so special about Palin? She wants to be Vice President of the United States and she has a new baby with Down's Syndrome and a teenage daughter who's pregnant. That makes her "goddamn special", at least I think so and so do many, many others. How many people do you know who have been in similar circumstances.

So what? FDR was a "goddamn" paraplegic. Does that make him a "special needs" president?

...Just for the record, I am not alone in questioning Palin's choice. The media and forums like this one are filled with people doing the same--men and women.

That's right....which was the intended dynamic. Polarization is fine for this stage of the game, and a lot of mothers with kids don't like being told what they can and can't do.

Why is Barack Obama putting career ahead of family?

[Stephen Best]

It's clear. Obama's a better man than me.

[M.Dancer]

It's clear. Obama's a better man than me.

Right. A man is better than a woman...

[Stephen Best]

So what? FDR was a "goddamn" paraplegic. Does that make him a "special needs" president?

Huh? Does Sarah Palin have Down's Syndrome?

[Oleg Bach]

Right. A man is better than a woman...

Woman feel nicer when you hold them and their wiskers are softer...

[White Doors]

The issue is which particular political ambitions and which particular children's needs. I've not heard anyone say she should resign as Governor of Alaska and stay home with Trig and Bristol. What is being judged--and rightly so--is the Vice Presidency of the United States and Palin's decision to pursue it with two, not one, what most people would consider serious family situations at home. Perhaps helping a daughter through a teen pregnancy and caring for Down's Syndrome baby are trivial matters, in fact. That's what the conservatives on this thread seem to suggest.

It would seem that Sarah Palin is putting her political ambitions ahead of the needs of her Down's Syndrome baby and pregnant teenage daughter. She has every right to do that. It's her children and she can treat them however well or badly she deems appropriate. She can decide how much time she wants to devote to or waste on them. Voters will decide if they want a person who favors political fortune over family members in need as their VP.

There's that glass ceiling. She is ok to be governor, but not VP.

I was going to ask you if you need a shovel, but you are working your way into excavator territory here.

[Oleg Bach]

There's that glass ceiling. She is ok to be governor, but not VP.

I was going to ask you if you need a shovel, but you are working your way into excavator territory here.

There is no glass ceiling - who do you think has more influence over George Bush than Dick Cheney? Why Laura of course! Just like Nancy Ragan was the actual commander in chief...the term glass ceiling is dated....what woman complain about is not being allowed to be a man - they call THAT the glass ceiling - and there always will be a barrier for men without a penis - If you are a woman - use your power and stop blaming things on abusive males - who will persecute a male as well as a female - go for it girls - find a man and use him as a surrogate...Even Barbara Bush is like a woman in a Berka - totally in control .

[Black Dog]

What's so special about Palin? She wants to be Vice President of the United States and she has a new baby with Down's Syndrome and a teenage daughter who's pregnant. That makes her "goddamn special", at least I think so and so do many, many others. How many people do you know who have been in similar circumstances.

None who want to be vice president, but I'm sure there are many whose personal circumstances and choices are equally challenging.

Where "pray tell" did I suggest that "working mothers with challenging family issues must sacrifice either family or career"? Each working mother or father and family has unique issues they confront every day. We're talking about Palin's situation, or at least I am. What are you talking about?

And I'm asking why you've internalized the conservative critique of working mothers (but only, you say, in this particular instance).

In general, I'm fully supportive of women having it all. Ask my wife and daughter. But each situation is different.

Especially if the person who wants to have it all is in a different idealogical camp, I reckon.

Sometimes you have to put personal ambition on hold because someone needs you. Perhaps there's more to Palin's decision, but at the moment it seems that her personal ambition takes precedence over both her children and her country.

You haven't shown that being VP will prevent Palin from being a good mother to her children. You say it will, that she has "abandoned a special needs baby and pregnant teenage daughter to run for high office" but that does not make it so. And here's the rub: if each situation is different, then determining the best course of action is probably best left to those closest to it. In this case, that would be Palin and hers, not the denizens of random internet fora.

Just for the record, I am not alone in questioning Palin's choice. The media and forums like this one are filled with people doing the same--men and women.

Logical fallacy-argumentum ad populum

Edited September 3, 2008 by Black Dog

[bush_cheney2004]

Huh? Does Sarah Palin have Down's Syndrome?

No...it's her child, but apparently that is enough to deny her the office of VP. We will pass a new amendment....no Presidents or Vice Presidents with disabilities in the family out to 3rd cousins and pets, because they need undevoted care by the designated FEMALE parental unit.

Edited September 3, 2008 by bush_cheney2004