McCain picks woman for VP slot

[Liam]

I still question, however, how Gov. Palin's daughter's pragnancy make Palin a hypocrite for not extending new funds to the aforementioned program?...

But, let's examine the argument further. It appears that the argument is: Palin supports certain type of sex-ed as a way of preventing pregnancy. Her daughter got pregnant. Therefore she is a hypocrite, or her prescription is a failure.

People misuse the term hypocrite all the time. Palin's not being a hypocrite. She doesn't believe in abortion or birth control and she's walking the walk. I'd agree that her prescription is a failure and that she is ill-informed that abstinence education is the best way to prevent pregnancy in teenage girls. Nor is it an effective way to teach kids about STDs.

I have a friend who is an HIV outreach worker in Africa. His job is one that relies quite a bit on HIV prevention funds from the US federal government. He's not even allowed to volunteer information about HIV prevention through condom usage with prostitutes in places like Nigeria or the men who frequent them. Bush's rules basically gag health professionals. My friend will lose funding for his outreach work if he volunteers information about condoms. He can discuss them only if someone asks -- and no one over there asks about condoms. Needless to say, Bush programs (and ones I suspect Palin would encourage McCain to continue) are doing little to stem the tide of growing numbers infected with HIV.

[Liam]

I read this, then I watch the clip above where the same person you're quoting calls the pick "Bullshit" and says the race is "over" and I just have to giggle. The G.O.P.'s water carriers don't know whether to shit or wind their watches.

What you're seeing among all GOPers, with the exception of the "Left Behind"ers, is what's called putting on a brave face in public. Behind the closed doors, they're very concerned, some are angry and almost all are resigned to the notion that McCain has bad judgment. In public, it's all pride and bluster. Noonan and Murphy merely got caught on a microphone saying what I've been hearing among family and colleagues since Friday. And now we know the GOP establishment is just as bewildered, angry and insulted as many outside the Beltway. (Of course there are many outside the Beltway who are walking on air over this pick.)

A co-worker of mine had a grandfather who was a US congressman from the midwest (GOP). Her mom is very active back home in state-wide GOP politics. My co-worker said "I know my grandfather just turned in his grave." No one in the family but her mom are voting for McCain this year. Palin sealed his fate with them.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Needless to say, Bush programs (and ones I suspect Palin would encourage McCain to continue) are doing little to stem the tide of growing numbers infected with HIV.

Then why do they take the money?....hypocrites?

Edited September 3, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[BubberMiley]

Nothing wrong with that...just win baby!

But fortunately it's transparent to all but the most blind partisans, and his recent poll numbers demonstrate that.

[Shady]

You forgot the best bit:

"Most qualified MILF."-Noonan

This is the same Noonan who wrote in today's Wall Street Journal that "Palin's friends should be less immediately worried about what the Obama campaign will do to her than what the McCain campaign will do." That, friends, is called a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'm glad you brought that up. I'd really like to ask her which Peggy Noonan we're suppose to believe. If she has a problem with writing her true beliefs, then she needs to cease being a columnist and find new career. And I suppose if Sarah Palin was fat and ugly, she'd have left the MILF part of the comment aside, and focused on something more meaningful.

[jdobbin]

I don't think her family situation should enter into the equation at all. In fact, it's the McCain campaign that has been trying to extend the shelf life of this story to divert attention from the real story---that McCain showed his reckless lack of judgement by choosing her, as he clearly didn't know anything about her before he put her on the ticket.

There are some Republicans who have been wondering what Palin will bring to the table to use against Obama. They can't use the celebrity argument much anymore because she is on the cover of People and they can't say that Obama's inexperience disqualifies him from high office because Palin could find herself in that position through twist of fate.

Her political record could still be a problem, especially the investigation in Alaska.

Her personal life is not as much as an issue compared to politics. Certainly her politics will appeal to the base but for independents and Democrats who might have voted for McCain, the issue of social conservatism and Roe v. Wade will be hard to overlook.

[BubberMiley]

I suppose if Sarah Palin was fat and ugly, you would have never heard of her.

[Liam]

Then why do they take the money?....hypocrites?

Do you ever consider that people who disagree with Bush policy may have valid reasons for their disagreements? Honestly, your posts are predictable to the point of being Pavlovian.

They're not hypocrites. Do you consider every businessman who dislikes the regulatory scheme governing his industry a hypocite if he adheres to the rules? These people adhere to the rules of the game. They dislike the rules, they know the rules make their jobs more difficult, but they don't say one thing and do another. They are not hypocrites. If they are to operate and if they are to help fight this disease they have to operate within the rules.

Why do they take the money? Because if they didn't, they wouldn't be able to do their jobs. Because without them, there would be almost no resource available to the people they are trying to help and because they feel a dedication to the people whose health they are trying to keep intact.

[Shady]

I suppose if Sarah Palin was fat and ugly, you would have never heard of her.

Why is that?

[Riverwind]

I suppose if Sarah Palin was fat and ugly, you would have never heard of her.

If Obama was fat and ugly you would have never heard of him. This is politics. Apperance matters - get over it. Edited September 3, 2008 by Riverwind

[Shady]

Some great excerpts from Palin's speech tonight:

"Since our opponents in this presidential election seem to look down on that experience, let me explain to them what the job involves," Palin said in excerpts of her remarks, released in advance of her appearance. "I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a 'community organizer,' except that you have actual responsibilities."

"Here's how I look at the choice Americans face in this election," she said. "In politics, there are some candidates who use change to promote their careers. And then there are those like John McCain, who use their careers to promote change."

[Liam]

The reviews of this speech have already been written. Short of having her throw up on herself or having her suffer a bout of nervous giggles during the address, every Republican on TV tonight will say it was a master stroke. She will have delivered a bloody punch to Obama. She will have thumbed her nose at the coastal and Beltway elites. She will have cowed and shamed the media as sexist and unpatriotic. She will have defended everything good about small-town America. She will be hailed as a model citizen and mom, as a brave feminist who believes in family and country. She will be hailed as the least appreciated public servant and as a maverick, a reformer, and the patron saint of sunny dispositions. And as Peggy Noonan and Mike Murphy showed today, it's all a show.

[Guest American Woman]

Just watched the Colbert Report and he was showing the clip of Cindy McCain saying that Palin has foreign policy experience because Alaska is the closest part of our country to Russia (still laughing at that-- someone would have to be pretty desperate to be willing to make themself look that stupid) and Colbert said "not only is Alaska America's closest point to Russia, Alaska has Mount McKinley which makes it America's closest point to space... so that means she has space policy experience."

Edited September 4, 2008 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

Do you ever consider that people who disagree with Bush policy may have valid reasons for their disagreements? Honestly, your posts are predictable to the point of being Pavlovian.

Of course...but they look pretty stupid when taking the money at the exact same time. Your posts are so special...sigh.....

They're not hypocrites. Do you consider every businessman who dislikes the regulatory scheme governing his industry a hypocite if he adheres to the rules? These people adhere to the rules of the game. They dislike the rules, they know the rules make their jobs more difficult, but they don't say one thing and do another. They are not hypocrites. If they are to operate and if they are to help fight this disease they have to operate within the rules.

Then what are they bitching about? Either "Bush's" policies are helping or they are not...can't have it both ways.

Why do they take the money? Because if they didn't, they wouldn't be able to do their jobs. Because without them, there would be almost no resource available to the people they are trying to help and because they feel a dedication to the people whose health they are trying to keep intact.

That's what I thought....talk is cheap. So I guess "Bush" has helped after all.

[kimmy]

So when do we start playing Palin Bingo? you know, an adaptation of that game bored college kids play in the lecture halls of repetitive, cliche-addled professors? I suggest a different version, where we pick 16 words we know the McCain apologists will all be saying about Palin's address (regardless of how good or how awful it is -- and it'll be good enough, I'm sure). First one to get four in a row wins. My board:

authentic fighter warm all-American

maverick reformer values home run (or any variation on the theme)

real winner experience family

elites conservative spunky private

You seem like a very bright person, Liam, so I am sure you know full well that the Democrats will be doing the exact same thing after the speech, with their own set of talking points (I haven't read enough of their stuff to distill 16 handy sound bites yet; I am sure that "lacking in substance" and talking about how much better Hilary's speeches were will figure prominently, unless they don't want to remind people that they can't actually vote for Hilary.) Of course, there is no way that Palin's speech, regardless of how good it is, will do anything to impress those who've already decided that she sucks. As confident as you are that "apologists" will find reasons to like the speech, I am equally confident that you guys will find reasons why it was a terrible speech.

I have to point out that you guys (sorry, I haven't figured out something as perjorative as "apologist" to describe you guys) have worked so hard to lower expectations for Palin over the past 5 days that unless she spontaneously combusts during the speech, it'll be a "home run".

-k

[Guest American Woman]

Don't know if anyone has posted this yet; if they have, I've missed it:

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin told ministry students at her former church that the United States sent troops to fight in the Iraq war on a "task that is from God."

She says we have to have a plan, and we have to make sure that plan is God's plan.

She says can try to do all she can for Alaska, but unless the people's hearts are with God, it won't do any good. In that light, evidently it's God's will that the pipeline be built. She's working to "implement God's will from the governor's office."

link

Edited September 4, 2008 by American Woman

[BubberMiley]

If Obama was fat and ugly you would have never heard of him. This is politics. Apperance matters - get over it.

I'm over it. I was just waiting for the predictable responses, and I could have written yours for you.

[Liam]

You seem like a very bright person, Liam, so I am sure you know full well that the Democrats will be doing the exact same thing after the speech, with their own set of talking points (I haven't read enough of their stuff to distill 16 handy sound bites yet; I am sure that "lacking in substance" and talking about how much better Hilary's speeches were will figure prominently, unless they don't want to remind people that they can't actually vote for Hilary.) Of course, there is no way that Palin's speech, regardless of how good it is, will do anything to impress those who've already decided that she sucks. As confident as you are that "apologists" will find reasons to like the speech, I am equally confident that you guys will find reasons why it was a terrible speech.

I have to point out that you guys (sorry, I haven't figured out something as perjorative as "apologist" to describe you guys) have worked so hard to lower expectations for Palin over the past 5 days that unless she spontaneously combusts during the speech, it'll be a "home run".

-k

The same rules apply for the Dems, they huffed and puffed over Hillary and Obama and they will now routinely frown over Palin and McCain. And I agree that the media has set up Palin perfectly for an average performance to be a stick in the eye to the elites.

I have never advocated that one should underestimate Palin's abilities. I think she's absolutely wrong in some of her positions, but I suspect she'll do a serviceable job as a VP candidate.

I'll come up with a word in lieu of apologists. Only "Kool-Aid drinkers" is out. I think the modern GOP has that one taken already.

[kimmy]

Actually, as evidenced by this thread, there's no left-wing consensus on the Palin pick vis a vis her family issues. Liberals are not a monolith.

And conservatives are not a monolith either.

And when I see people like Drea...

And Black Dog, it's the hypocrisy that have us centre/lefties pissed off -- conservatives who normally vilify women for working while they have small children have done a complete flip-flop. They are falling all over themselves. It's funny really.

...complaining about the hypocrisy of conservatives supporting Palin while vilifying working moms, I am wondering what conservatives she is talking about.

There are Republicans who think mothers should be home with the children, but to ascribe that position to conservatives in general or to people supporting Palin in particular is just a straw-man. The Republican Party in the US, as with the Conservative Party in Canada, contains a wide range of view points ranging from very social conservative, to people who don't have socially conservative views but find themselves more closely aligned with the Republicans than the Democrats because of other issues.

-k

[BubberMiley]

The Republican Party in the US, as with the Conservative Party in Canada, contains a wide range of view points ranging from very social conservative, to people who don't have socially conservative views but find themselves more closely aligned with the Republicans than the Democrats because of other issues.

If you're so aware of the wide range of viewpoints within the parties, it's odd that you never once had an issue with, say, August's repeated generalizations about "the Left."

[Guest American Woman]

And when I see people like Drea...

And Black Dog, it's the hypocrisy that have us centre/lefties pissed off -- conservatives who normally vilify women for working while they have small children have done a complete flip-flop. They are falling all over themselves. It's funny really.

...complaining about the hypocrisy of conservatives supporting Palin while vilifying working moms, I am wondering what conservatives she is talking about.

There are Republicans who think mothers should be home with the children, but to ascribe that position to conservatives in general or to people supporting Palin in particular is just a straw-man. The Republican Party in the US, as with the Conservative Party in Canada, contains a wide range of view points ranging from very social conservative, to people who don't have socially conservative views but find themselves more closely aligned with the Republicans than the Democrats because of other issues.

-k

She didn't ascribe it to "conservatives in general or to people supporting Palin in particular." She ascribed it to the "conservatives who normally vilify women for working while they have small children."

[M.Dancer]

...complaining about the hypocrisy of conservatives supporting Palin while vilifying working moms, I am wondering what conservatives she is talking about.

There are Republicans who think mothers should be home with the children, but to ascribe that position to conservatives in general or to people supporting Palin in particular is just a straw-man. The Republican Party in the US, as with the Conservative Party in Canada, contains a wide range of view points ranging from very social conservative, to people who don't have socially conservative views but find themselves more closely aligned with the Republicans than the Democrats because of other issues.

-k

She didn't ascribe it to "conservatives in general or to people supporting Palin in particular." She ascribed it to the "conservatives who normally vilify women for working while they have small children."

No of course she didn't mean all conservatives ...just the some.....she felt I'm sure that no one would be confused by her words in black and white if she omitted "some" or any other qualifier.....

Edited September 4, 2008 by M.Dancer

[BubberMiley]

Conservatives do normally vilify women for working when they have small children. That's a central tenet of conservativism, like their belieft that women should not have control over their bodies, pot smokers should be subject to criminal records, government is bad when it inconveniences me but good when it benefits me, war is profitable, soldiers should be canonized but are expendible for profit, cynical displays of patriotism can be an effective political tool, political correctness is wrong unless it's my political opponent being politically incorrect...etc. etc.

[M.Dancer]

Conservatives do normally vilify women for working when they have small children. That's a central tenet of conservativism, like their belieft that women should not have control over their bodies, pot smokers should be subject to criminal records, government is bad when it inconveniences me but good when it benefits me, war is profitable, soldiers should be canonized but are expendible for profit, cynical displays of patriotism can be an effective political tool, political correctness is wrong unless it's my political opponent being politically incorrect...etc. etc.

Central tenet of conservatism...yeah okay...won't even ask for the citation...is it in the protocols of the elders of conservatism, Peggy Thatcher, editor?

[kimmy]

...Perhaps helping a daughter through a teen pregnancy and caring for Down's Syndrome baby are trivial matters, in fact. That's what the conservatives on this thread seem to suggest.

They are neither trivial or remarkable.....people do it every day. So what's the big deal?

I wanted to emphasize this exchange, because I thought it was stated so simply and yet eloquently by BC2004.

From the tone of some of these comments, you'd think Sarah Palin was in utterly unique circumstances.

In fact, no. Her circumstances are challenging, but not remarkable. It is a fact of life that people face, and deal with.

My cousin is a working mother of two autistic children. The stuff being said about Palin applies equally to people like my cousin, and to millions of women who face challenges and soldier on. People need to remember that these are not hypotheticals, these are real families. Not just Sarah Palin's. If you're condemning Sarah Palin's decision to continue working after having a special needs child, you're also condemning my cousin, and literal millions of working mothers who have special needs children.

-k

But perhaps she does believe in child neglect.

By choosing to run in a Presidential election after just giving birth to child with Down's Syndrome and teenage daughter newly pregnant says much about Palin's priorities.

I'm not aware of any person--male or female--who like Sarah Palin has, in effect, abandoned a special needs baby and pregnant teenage daughter to run for high office. Can you name any such person, male or female, other than Sarah Palin? It seems you're asking me to post a link about something that hasn't happened.