McCain picks woman for VP slot

[Drea]

Retracted statment.

ModerateAmerican, you are not a rightwinger so whydja retract it? Was it really really baaaad?

Edited September 3, 2008 by Drea

[bush_cheney2004]

....After all, the rightwing has always said that moms need to be at home for their children.

No, I think they said that moms should stay out of the abortion clinics.....being home would just be gravy.

Edited September 3, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[August1991]

So i was reading CNN, yahoo, MSNBC, fox and all the other online headlines about her. Has anyone noticed the negative undertone the media has taken. They completely down play every good thing shes ever done or quality she has and highlight only the negative. Obviously the media is all out blitz mode on this women. Personally I dont think shes any worse or better than any other candidate. As far as political corruption goes, All i have to say is Bill Clinton and Richard Nixon. Hell George W. Hoover, FDR, JFK etc etc etc.

I think you've stated more clearly what I think, ma.

IMV, Obama had an easier ride than Hillary Clinton and Palin is having a particularly rough ride.

I understand that the US Left just loves to see someone on the right having "family troubles" or being caught in a sex scandal. Both the Left and the Right are moralistic in their own ways. Well, the US has a puritan streak. Women seem to get caught up in this more than men.

My posting was in response to White Doors asking me "Do you feel the same way about Nancy Pelosi? The Democrat head of the house? She has 5 kids? Can you show me the post where you think that she is being selfish? thought not. Consistency please."

It is clear from the facts that Palin's and Pelosi's family situations and how each approached them are not comparable. I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that facts demonstrating that might be appreciated. Pelosi's approach to her family is quite different from Palin's. Pelosi put her family ahead of her career. Palin has not. Those are the facts. White Doors' comments about Pelosi obscured those facts.

There is nothing in my post to suggest that I hold the notion that "woman should stay pregnant and in the kitchen." Why would you make such a leap?

However, I do question a person--male or female--who voluntarily and unnecessarily puts career before family, particularly a special needs infant, and professes to be champion of the Right Wing's notion of "family values.' Is it inappropriate to ask such questions? If so, why are they inappropriate?

Blah, blah, blah.

Best, to denigrate Palin, you compared her to Pelosi who waited until her kids were out of high school before she got involved in politics. That's not "progressive" thinking. I think we should send you back to Political Correctness re-education camp.

[Stephen Best]

You would choose the latter, but Gov. Palin shouldn't? Gee, that sounds really progressive!

But in this case, she can choose both.

It would be appear she is choosing both, and one or both of her obligations will suffer simply because of the time demands of each of her obligations.

Let me ask you now, if there is a conflicting demand on her time and she has to choose between her duties as Vice President and as a mother, which obligation should take precedence? The needs of her infant with Downs Syndrome or the country? As of now, it seems she's handed caring for Trig, her new special needs baby, over to her pregnant teenager Bristol. Is this how you'd raise your children?

[M.Dancer]

It would be appear she is choosing both, and one or both of her obligations will suffer simply because of the time demands of each of her obligations.

Let me ask you now, if there is a conflicting demand on her time and she has to choose between her duties as Vice President and as a mother, which obligation should take precedence? The needs of her infant with Downs Syndrome or the country? As of now, it seems she's handed caring for Trig, her new special needs baby, over to her pregnant teenager Bristol. Is this how you'd raise your children?

I'm sure you don't want to appear sexist....are you advocating that only childless celebates run for office?

[White Doors]

It would be appear she is choosing both, and one or both of her obligations will suffer simply because of the time demands of each of her obligations.

Let me ask you now, if there is a conflicting demand on her time and she has to choose between her duties as Vice President and as a mother, which obligation should take precedence? The needs of her infant with Downs Syndrome or the country? As of now, it seems she's handed caring for Trig, her new special needs baby, over to her pregnant teenager Bristol. Is this how you'd raise your children?

Why can't the father help with raising their children?

hello? The 1960's are calling and they want their democratic party back.

[Stephen Best]

So what if her 17 year old daughter is pregnant? It happens all the time. So what if she has a kid with down syndrome? My point is the media has an agenda (like it always has) and they arent pulling punches. Dont give me a bunch of shit about there family, do you think I give a rats ass about what anyone thinks about how she runs her family? I wanna know how she is going to run the country.

In my view, how she treats her family, particularly her new baby with Down's Syndrome and her pregnant teenage daughter, will give you some indication how she is going to run the country. I'm not comforted by Palin's apparent disregard for her special needs baby. It seems that as an anti-choice zealot Trig's being born was never in question, but her caring for him herself is.

You said you "wanna know how she is going to run the country". Would I be wrong in assuming that, like many of us, given McCain's age and medical condition that you are expecting Sarah Palin to become President? What kind of President do you think Sarah Palin would be?

[bush_cheney2004]

It would be appear she is choosing both, and one or both of her obligations will suffer simply because of the time demands of each of her obligations.

Yep...that's what I posted. Whether there will be any sufferin' remains to be seen, and in any event, is not anyone else's decision.

Let me ask you now, if there is a conflicting demand on her time and she has to choose between her duties as Vice President and as a mother, which obligation should take precedence? The needs of her infant with Downs Syndrome or the country? As of now, it seems she's handed caring for Trig, her new special needs baby, over to her pregnant teenager Bristol. Is this how you'd raise your children?

She should do whatever the hell she feels like doing. Pure conjecture on your part....I had to care for my younger siblings as well, and my parents were not running for vice president of anything. Millions of families juggle even tougher circumstances, so stop making Palin's situation out to be anything special, given the income/resources available to her. Lots of rooms at the US Naval Observatory.

[Stephen Best]

Why can't the father help with raising their children?

hello? The 1960's are calling and they want their democratic party back.

White Doors, it would appear you don't want to confront the question or real issue at hand.

[White Doors]

White Doors, it would appear you don't want to confront the question or real issue at hand.

And it appears that you cannot see the irony in your statements coming from a self-proclaimed 'progressive'.

Heck, if this is what is to come from the left, McCain has this baby sewn up.

I'm calling for a McCain win in November. you heard it here first.

[bush_cheney2004]

... What kind of President do you think Sarah Palin would be?

That would be.....Mrs. President.

[Stephen Best]

Yep...that's what I posted. Whether there will be any sufferin' remains to be seen, and in any event, is not anyone else's decision.

It is everyone's decision to vote or not vote for a ticket that includes Sarah Palin, or a Presidential nominee who would pick her as running mate. How she conducts her family life, how she chooses to split her time between her children who need her, because of an unwanted pregnancy and Down's Syndrome, and a country that is relying on her are legitimate areas of concern for voters. When you put yourself forward for the highest office in the land everything about you is of legitimate concern to voters. She will make her decisions, and voters will make theirs. Voters will weigh Palin's decsions in theirs.

[Stephen Best]

I'm sure you don't want to appear sexist....are you advocating that only childless celebates run for office?

Why would you make such a leap? We're not talking about the generality of women or mothers running for the highest office in the land. We're--or at least I am--talking about a particular person, Sarah Palin, and her particular family situation at this particular time. To remind you, she has just become the mother of baby with Down's Syndrome and she has a teenage daughter who is pregnant.

It's silly for you to extrapolate a legitimate query and concern about Sarah Palin in particular to a charge that I am advocating only childless celibates run for office. Why would you make such a silly, unsupportable statement? How odd.

[White Doors]

Why would you make such a leap? We're not talking about the generality of women or mothers running for the highest office in the land. We're--or at least I am--talking about a particular person, Sarah Palin, and her particular family situation at this particular time. To remind you, she has just become the mother of baby with Down's Syndrome and she has a teenage daughter who is pregnant.

It's silly for you to extrapolate a legitimate query and concern about Sarah Palin in particular to a charge that I am advocating only childless celibates run for office. Why would you make such a silly, unsupportable statement? How odd.

I see. Can you link us to any comment you EVER made in regards to a male running for office that you had similar concerns about?

Thank you!

[M.Dancer]

I see. Can you link us to any comment you EVER made in regards to a male running for office that you had similar concerns about?

Thank you!

I'm worried about Obama's kids. If elected how will he take care of them? Will they grow up with a run away father like him?

[Stephen Best]

Best, to denigrate Palin, you compared her to Pelosi who waited until her kids were out of high school before she got involved in politics. That's not "progressive" thinking. I think we should send you back to Political Correctness re-education camp.

If you'll recall, I didn't introduce the Palin/Pelosi comparison. White Doors did. I provided the facts and what those facts logically entail. If you find the facts uncomfortable, you'll have to jump through whatever mental hoops you need to to either deny or reconcile them to your beliefs.

By the way, it's refreshing when so many conservatives here are questioning my "progressive" bona fides. Does this mean that the conservatives here have now accepted the supremacy of progressive over conservative values?

[Stephen Best]

I'm worried about Obama's kids. If elected how will he take care of them? Will they grow up with a run away father like him?

What little I know of the Obama and Palin families, it would seem that Mr. and Mrs. Obama are doing a better job with their children than the Palins.

[GostHacked]

Stephen Best.

Methinks many do not understand what you are trying to say. Twisting it and offering really disingenuous situations that do not reflect what you are saying.

Does a woman put her career ahead of her children/family?

If so, why would she put her career ahead of her children/family?

If she puts career ahead of the children/family, what will suffer most?

It is not considered 'progressive' to abandon your children for your career. It is also not considered 'conservative' or 'liberal' to abandon your children for a career. That is just plain stupid no matter how you look at it.

From the information here, Pelosi waited untill her children were old enough to take care of themselves before entering politics. Is that a bad thing? Not at all. I consider that responsible parenting. When you become a parent, you have an obligation and a long term commitment to raise the child as best as you can. This means personal and proffesional sacrafices along the way as well. For those who make the concious choice and effort to have a child, they will also put the time and care needed to raise the child properly.

If you are a single woman or man without children .. then by all means, go for the career. But if you have family, .. please take care of them.

[White Doors]

If you are a single woman or man without children .. then by all means, go for the career. But if you have family, .. please take care of them.

haha

So you think Senator Obama should pull out of the presidential race?

This is SO easy!

McCain ftw!

[Stephen Best]

I see. Can you link us to any comment you EVER made in regards to a male running for office that you had similar concerns about?

Thank you!

I'm not aware of any person--male or female--who like Sarah Palin has, in effect, abandoned a special needs baby and pregnant teenage daughter to run for high office. Can you name any such person, male or female, other than Sarah Palin? It seems you're asking me to post a link about something that hasn't happened.

[Stephen Best]

haha

So you think Senator Obama should pull out of the presidential race?

This is SO easy!

McCain ftw!

Then you think George Bush should not have been President, or John McCain or most of the past Presidents. Clearly, being President is not incompatible with raising children. However, Sarah Palin's situation is that, at this particular time, she has a Down's Syndrome baby and a pregnant teenage daughter who need her. Moreover, there are many better qualified people who could serve as McCain's VP.

It is important to understand that concerns about Sarah Palin have nothing to do with mothers or parents or women serving in the highest offices in the land. The concerns have to do with Sarah Palin, in particular, and her choosing between her political ambitions and her children's particular needs at this particular time. Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp? It's the one most feminists are making.

It is interesting that similar concerns about family were raised about John Edwards pursuing the Democratic Party's nomination with his wife suffering from cancer. It was Elizabeth Edwards who insisted that her husband continue his campaign.

[White Doors]

I'm not aware of any person--male or female--who like Sarah Palin has, in effect, abandoned a special needs baby and pregnant teenage daughter to run for high office. Can you name any such person, male or female, other than Sarah Palin? It seems you're asking me to post a link about something that hasn't happened.

I see. So it's strictly women who have special needs children that should be confined to the home then?

Or is it women with a special needs child and another one that is pregnant? Can you let me know what your goal posts are so I can play too?

Also, why are you against the husband staying home and helping?

[Liam]

What matters is what role Todd Palin will have. As I asked four or five pages ago: is he going to quit his job and move to Washington to be the primary care giver for their baby? If so, then I have no problem with a woman like Palin running for and serving as VP or even President. If Todd Palin is not going to quit his job, but take on some kind of employment, whether in Washington or Alaska, I would think the Palins were doing a disservice to their family. Being the VP isn't like working as an accountant where one can leave the office early or telecommute a few days a week. A job at that level often requires lengthy travel, intense scheduling and will be the master of Palin's life. If she can do it with the undivided help of her husband, more power to her.

But an added problem for me is the 17 year old daughter. Where is she going to go? Back to Alaska to live with her teenager husband? Or will she stay in Washington (and will the teen hubby?) to be near her family? I'm sorry, but there are just times when a young woman needs her mom -- I know this as a single dad with two girls -- and I'd imagine that the first several months of teenage motherhood would be one of those times. Having her be in Alaska or having Sarah Palin off to Pakistan or Burundi or Germany would not be in her daughter's best interests. Todd could be the best dad on earth, but he's still not going to be able to fill the role of surrogate mom to their daughter. I speak from experience.

[Stephen Best]

I see. So it's strictly women who have special needs children that should be confined to the home then?

Or is it women with a special needs child and another one that is pregnant? Can you let me know what your goal posts are so I can play too?

Also, why are you against the husband staying home and helping?

The goal posts are very simple, and obvious to me. Sarah Palin's Down's Syndrome baby and her pregnant teenage daughter need her more than her country. It seems you and Sarah don't think so. The USA can get along fine without Sarah Palin, Governor of Alaska. She's also very young, and has years to fulfill her political ambitions. I don't wish her well in achieving those ambitions; her values are not mine.

What makes you think I'm against Todd Palin staying home and caring for Trig and Bristol?

[Black Dog]

Boy it would be nice, all these days after the Palin pick was announced, to come here and not see a bunch of regressive sexist claptrap couched in faux-concern for Sarah Palin's family. Look, her kids and decision to pursue both a family and a career in politics have sweet F.A.to do with anything.

Given the number of other questions around her candidacy (how will her right-wing views play with the centre? how will a woman play with the G.O.P base? etc.) I see no reason to drag her family into it.

(All that being said, I do so love how the McCaniacs here and in meatworld have heartily embraced the concept that anything whatsoever that happens to the McCain campaign is good news. That kind of hope is notable for it's audacity.)

It is important to understand that concerns about Sarah Palin have nothing to do with mothers or parents or women serving in the highest offices in the land. The concerns have to do with Sarah Palin, in particular, and her choosing between her political ambitions and her children's particular needs at this particular time. Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp? It's the one most feminists are making.

Why are her political ambitions and her children's needs mutually exclusive?

Edited September 3, 2008 by Black Dog