McCain picks woman for VP slot

CANADIEN · September 4, 2008

I thought that I could not find anything funnier than social conservatives demonstrating that in fact they are quite OK with working women - as long as they are social conservative politicians. Or social liberals who think Sarah Palin is a bad mother for wanting to work... at a job they believe a social conservative like her should not get no matter the gender. But there is better thqan that. Sarah Palin has the support of... Ann Coulter. Yep, the same Ann Coulter who believe women should not even vote. :lol: :lol: :lol:

M.Dancer · September 4, 2008

I thought that I could not find anything funnier than social conservatives demonstrating that in fact they are quite OK with working women - as long as they are social conservative politicians. Or social liberals who think Sarah Palin is a bad mother for wanting to work... at a job they believe a social conservative like her should not get no matter the gender. But there is better thqan that. Sarah Palin has the support of... Ann Coulter. Yep, the same Ann Coulter who believe women should not even vote. :lol:

Ugh...Coulter....

peter_puck · September 4, 2008

Top ten reasons this pick sucks

1. She has come out gagged, not saying anything in uncontrolled forum. Biden came out swinging, she has come out (I assume) spending all her time being briefed. Biden on the other hand has come out swinging

2. "Vetting" has become a popular search item term for the first time since the pick.

3. Obama has come off a lousy convention (in terms of bounce) only to streak up in the polls after the pick

4. The Republicans have spent all their time talking about her and explaining the pick rather than talk about what they want to talk about.

5. Her stepmother could not give her an endorsement.

6. Republicans and conservative commentators have dumped on the pick. It takes a lot of balls to trash your party's pick in the heat of a race. The "She's not even qualfied to be governor" comment will likely appear in attack ads.

7. People are not questioning Obama's experience anymore, they are questioning Palin's.

8. The media are now talking about McCain's health issues more.

9. It has come out that she supported teaching creationism in schools. May play well to the social conservatives, but it is a point of mockery for the independents.

10. The revelations keep on coming, like a bandaid being slowly pulled off. Nothing fatal, just a wave of papercuts. Husbands DUI, independents party, petty feuds, purges of local officals.

And for a bonus. This topic has gotten (already) 600 replies and is growing rapidly. The Biden one got only 50 as is dead

Edited September 4, 2008 by peter_puck

August1991 · September 4, 2008

Obama is likeable, but as with all of Oprah's hand picks, such as Dr. Phil, they start off folksy and end up being tell all blow hards.
Barack is dangerously walking that fine line between "hey, let's all love the cute fresh articulate black kid" and "quit tryign to tell us all how to live our lives you smug ingrate".

In this vein Palin comes off more as the "real deal" likeability whereas Obama is starting to look like a know-it-all smart ass.

Seinfled shows up in a messy thread and delivers several off-topic quotables.

When it comes to partisan politics, principles get quickly thrown out the window. As BD has mentioned in several posts, Palin is a working mother - well, Biden is a working father. So what? It's also pleasant to see so-called social conservatives take the side of a working mother.

In fact, from Margaret Thatcher to the quoted Peggy Noonan herself, Conservatives never quibbled over a woman's right to choose her life. Conservatives ob ject to a woman - or anyone- being shunned into a particular course. Sarah Palin has clearly chosen her own course in life and more power to her.

----

Now then, Seinfeld. What's this about Oprah? Specifically, how much is Obama Oprah's baby? That is, is Oprah to Obama what Joe Kennedy was to JFK? Just as JFK's dad, she's got the bucks to buy him the presidency.

I'm surprised no one mentions this.

bush_cheney2004 · September 4, 2008

Gov Palin is hitting on all cylinders with her speech....she is and will be more likeable going forward. She's no Obama for oratory, but then again, we don't want her to be.

Welcome aboard Sarah.

Edited September 4, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

August1991 · September 4, 2008

Kimmy does in American Woman:

I have to point out that you guys (sorry, I haven't figured out something as perjorative as "apologist" to describe you guys) have worked so hard to lower expectations for Palin over the past 5 days that unless she spontaneously combusts during the speech, it'll be a "home run".
-k

Don't know if anyone has posted this yet; if they have, I've missed it:
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin told ministry students at her former church that the United States sent troops to fight in the Iraq war on a "task that is from God."

She says we have to have a plan, and we have to make sure that plan is God's plan.

----

This is a messy, off the charts thread. Some points are well made, many are partisan.

As I read it, I wondered how all this will play in Peoria. Well, this thread only helps to understand how partisans think but rarely how non-partisans in Peoria think.

Nevertheless, I suspect that Palin's nomination will strike just as much curiousity and controversy among non-partisans. Palin is an intriguing, attractive person.

There's an old line in PR: I don't care what you say just as long as you spell my name right. Kimmy, forget about the partisan debates and think about how this plays among the people who really don't care about politics at all. The people in the check out line who pick up the tabloids.

I think McCain might be on to something. After all, it was the National Enquirer that broke the John Edwards "love child" story.

bush_cheney2004 · September 4, 2008

....I think McCain might be on to something. After all, it was the National Enquirer that broke the John Edwards "love child" story.

I agree....there is something organic here that I never would have anticipated. Gov Palin brings an energy that counters the early (and now waning) spark provided by Senator Obama......but she has only now arrived on the scene.

Let the games begin.......

August1991 · September 4, 2008

In a messy thread, allow me a small hijack.

If you're so aware of the wide range of viewpoints within the parties, it's odd that you never once had an issue with, say, August's repeated generalizations about "the Left."

That's personal, Bubbler.

While your point is taken, I'll note that there are "social conservatives" and "fiscal conservatives". Are the equivalent "social leftists" and "fiscal leftists"?

I have occasionally drawn a distinction between North American (Anglo) Leftists and European Leftists. (North American leftists have a puritan, moralist streak. European leftists tend to defend class.)

I also find that the modern Left is struggling with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the collapse of State-ideology. They split differently on this issue.

But when it all comes down to it, the Left wants the State to take money from us so that it can organize us to do good. Leftists are like high school teachers.

BubberMiley · September 4, 2008

Leftists are like high school teachers.

And your oversimplification wouldn't merit more than a C-.

Liam · September 4, 2008

Eh. Her speech was okay, about what I expected. I'll give her the benefit of getting in a few good lines, but her delivery did come across as a bit scripted. Overall, I think it was designed to appeal only to the people in the room and not really give people outside her bubble much to go on. The biography stuff at the beginning was good, but her attacks on Obama had just too much condescension and sarcasm and they came across as a bit over-scripted. That part of the speech actually came off more as an unattractive sneer than a series of well placed punches.

She did about what I expected and about as well as I expected. No more, no less. As B-C says, let the games begin.

kimmy · September 4, 2008

So when do we start playing Palin Bingo? you know, an adaptation of that game bored college kids play in the lecture halls of repetitive, cliche-addled professors? I suggest a different version, where we pick 16 words we know the McCain apologists will all be saying about Palin's address (regardless of how good or how awful it is -- and it'll be good enough, I'm sure). First one to get four in a row wins. My board:
authentic fighter warm all-American

maverick reformer values home run (or any variation on the theme)

real winner experience family

elites conservative spunky private

I think all of the above are applicable to some degree, but I bolded the ones I thought were most applicable.

Yep, I think it was a "home run", not just by low-bar "at least she didn't spontaneously combust" standards, but by the standard of what could have been hoped for from any candidate McCain could have selected.

I think it was an excellent speech, extremely well-delivered. We'll have to wait and see, but I don't think that's just an apologist talking.

As one of the CBS analysts put it tonight, "I think the Democrats will be taking this a lot more seriously now."

-k

Moonlight Graham · September 4, 2008

3. Obama has come off a lousy convention (in terms of bounce) only to streak up in the polls after the pick

This is impossible. The Palin pick was announced, what, about 12 hours after the DNC had ended the night before? Do you have some poll numbers from in-between those hours i'm not aware of?

CANADIEN · September 4, 2008

Just took a quick look at her speech.

Not bad for the most... The right words at the right time, aimed squarely at Republicans who may not be that hot about McCain.

And then... I had to laugh when she was praising herself for her opposition to the "bridge to nowhere"... which she was supporting not two years ago.

And there a few pearls:

When I ran for city council, I didn't need focus groups and voter profiles because I knew those voters, and knew their families, too.

I hope she knew at least a few of them. She was running for city council in a town of about 1000 people, where she had llived most of her life. She is now running for the job of Vice-President of a country of over 300 MILLION people. When you do that, you need voter profiles and focus group.

I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a "community organizer," except that you have actual responsibilities.

Go tell to leaders of CONSERVATIVE Ccommunity organizations that they don't have responsibilities.

I also drive myself to work.

It may a perk in Juneau to have your own driver. when you are Vice-President of the United States, the Secret Service driver is even more important than your seatbelt. Not the best way to prove you understand what the job you're seeking entails.

But when the cloud of rhetoric has passed ... when the roar of the crowd fades away ... when the stadium lights go out, and those Styrofoam Greek columns are hauled back to some studio lot - what exactly is our opponent's plan?

Talk about corny.

Moonlight Graham · September 4, 2008

She had a good speech i thought. She speaks very well & can react on her toes. If i were a Conservative/Republican i'd be very happy with the speech.

bush_cheney2004 · September 4, 2008

Eh. Her speech was okay, about what I expected. I'll give her the benefit of getting in a few good lines, but her delivery did come across as a bit scripted. Overall, I think it was designed to appeal only to the people in the room and not really give people outside her bubble much to go on. The biography stuff at the beginning was good, but her attacks on Obama had just too much condescension and sarcasm and they came across as a bit over-scripted. That part of the speech actually came off more as an unattractive sneer than a series of well placed punches.

Fair enough....all she needed to do was get over the hump, and I think she succeeded. A good enough introduction to her as a person, her family, and her attitude. I only heard "God" three times, and one of those was at the end.

Scripted? Yes, very much so, but she is obviously at ease on stage and not afraid to go off script for a laugh.

She gives a better speech than Senator McCain! :lol:

...it will be harder for the Democrats to "kill" her now.

Edited September 4, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

Shady · September 4, 2008

Hurricane Sarah hits Minneapolis as a category 5. Wow! :wub:

kimmy · September 4, 2008

Eh. Her speech was okay, about what I expected. I'll give her the benefit of getting in a few good lines, but her delivery did come across as a bit scripted. Overall, I think it was designed to appeal only to the people in the room and not really give people outside her bubble much to go on. The biography stuff at the beginning was good, but her attacks on Obama had just too much condescension and sarcasm and they came across as a bit over-scripted. That part of the speech actually came off more as an unattractive sneer than a series of well placed punches.
She did about what I expected and about as well as I expected. No more, no less. As B-C says, let the games begin.

I thought the parts directed at Obama were very well done, actually. I thought the line about the styrofoam pillars, in particular, was brilliant, not just as a piece of comedy, but as a cleverly chosen bit of symbolism. Crafting the image of a guy who has written 2 memoirs but no bills, the comparison between a "community organizer" and a mayor, the line that Obama has used "change" to further his career while McCain has used his career to further change, and the quip that running for president is not supposed to be a journey of self discovery... I thought it was all quite skillfully done, and delivered with a superb comic touch.

-k

Liam · September 4, 2008

One last thing before I sign off (I'm one of those "elites" in the eastern time zone :rolleyes: )... I thought McCain's appearance on stage was just incredibly awkward and awful. First, it seemed to be a direct copy of what Obama did after Biden's speech. Second, after saying a few words about Palin and the family, he just looked so uncomfortable and awkward. Even I was thinking, "please, say something say something just fill in the silence, do something" but the moment just hung out there and lingered and lingered.

August1991 · September 4, 2008

Eh. Her speech was okay, about what I expected. I'll give her the benefit of getting in a few good lines, but her delivery did come across as a bit scripted.

I didn't listen to the speech but I was certain that "the Left" would immediately step in and claim that someone else wrote it.

In a sense, this isn't sexism. The Dems did the same with Reagan and Bush Jnr. They played the man; not the ball. They'll try to portray Palin as a lightweight.

If they do, they'll do themselves double disservice. Palin may be a woman but she's no lightweight.

jefferiah · September 4, 2008

Ann Coulter. Yep, the same Ann Coulter who believe women should not even vote. :lol:

I don't think Ann actually believes that. You can't take her too seriously.

CANADIEN · September 4, 2008

I didn't listen to the speech but I was certain that "the Left" would immediately step in and claim that someone else wrote it.

That's why major politicians have speechwriters. I reead the speech, didn't listen to it. Sounding scripted as a lot more to do with the delivery than with the text.

Mind you, I would have expected her to sound scripted. Not because she iss asocial conservative, not because I think she brings no qualification with her (as I said, both she and Obama bring more relevant to the job that Abraham Lincoln did), but because it was her first speech before a country - actually a worldwide - audience.

CANADIEN · September 4, 2008

I don't think Ann actually believes that. You can't take her too seriously.

I don't take right-wing media idiots like her and Limbaugh seriously. Too bad - Coulter would do her country a great service by following her own advice regarding women and voting :lol: :lol: :lol:

bush_cheney2004 · September 4, 2008

.... Even I was thinking, "please, say something say something just fill in the silence, do something" but the moment just hung out there and lingered and lingered.

That's not going to change....John McCain will never get top style points. Palin helps in that regard...she can "take a punch" and throw one too.

CANADIEN · September 4, 2008

the comparison between a "community organizer" and a mayor

Far from brillant, that bit was condescending, and showed a gross misunderstanding of the work people who head countless community organisations do. And I am not just talking "left wing" organizations here, but organisations of all political stripes, in all areas of society, both volunteers and people doing it as their paid job.

bush_cheney2004 · September 4, 2008

Far from brillant, that bit was condescending, and showed a gross misunderstanding of the work people who head countless community organisations do. And I am not just talking "left wing" organizations here, but organisations of all political stripes, in all areas of society, both volunteers and people doing it as their paid job.

Ummmm...OK...how many of these "community organizers" are elected by the general public?