US Missile Shield: Reemerging Cold War, WW3, then New World Order?

[M.Dancer]

True, but to be fair, BOMARC was very early on and was intended for aircraft, not re-entry vehicles. It also made for much controversy in Canada because of the optional nuclear warheads.

just like the patriot was intended for aircraft....mind you, put a nuclear warhead on a patriot missile and you will have a very effective anti missile missile...

[DogOnPorch]

If I recall, the Sprint had in effect an N-Bomb (neutron) which was to disable incoming warheads with a huge blast of X-Rays, Gamma Rays and various high energy particles. Yes re: the Bomarc. I have some pretty funny Norris cartoons from the old Vancouver Sun poking much fun at the Bomarc.

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They were going to make me a Major for this...

---Apocalypse Now

[DogOnPorch]

Oh...and no doubt...the Bomarc could do 'S' turns.

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You call that a knife?? This is a knife!

---Crocodile Dundee

[bush_cheney2004]

If I recall, the Sprint had in effect an N-Bomb (neutron) which was to disable incoming warheads with a huge blast of X-Rays, Gamma Rays and various high energy particles.

Right...it was a small but enhanced radiation yield warhead.....fry 'em with big time flux. At some point it becomes counter-productive to detonate larger yield warheads, even in the upper atmosphere.

[PoliticalCitizen]

By agreeing to deploy parts of the ABM shield on their territory, Czechia and Poland became prime targets in case of a conflict.

Wehereas the radar in Czechia can be taken out by conventional weapons, the silos in Poland will require nuclear strikes.

As a counter-measure, Russia could deploy missles in the Kaliningrad region - I'm sure that will make their friends from Poland and Baltic states happy

BTW - it is always cheaper an more effective to develop a better sword than a better shield.

[bush_cheney2004]

...BTW - it is always cheaper an more effective to develop a better sword than a better shield.

That's OK....we've played this game before, and the Soviets lost their ass.

[PoliticalCitizen]

That's OK....we've played this game before, and the Soviets lost their ass.

Is that what we're trying to do? An arms race?

I guess Lockheed Martin got hungry again, huh?

[bush_cheney2004]

Is that what we're trying to do? An arms race?

I guess Lockheed Martin got hungry again, huh?

Bring it.....we will dig up President Reagan and Putin will pee his tiny pants.

Edited August 16, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[Moonlight Graham]

The U.S. Missile Shield is a stupid idea & a vast waste of resources. It is designed to defend against nuclear missile threats from rogue states. Ok, now exactly how many "rogue states" have nuclear missile strike capabilities? Maybe North Korea, if it keeps up its program. Thats about it. Iran doesn't even have the capability yet, and even if they did i'm pretty sure the 'ol "if you bomb us we'll bomb you" philosophy from the cold war would keep them in check, as it did with the U.S. & the USSR for 50+ years. Pakistan is a Muslim nation, and they have yet to go nuclear wacko on anyone. Iran is run by a bunch of jerks, but they aren't completely idiotic/suicidal jerks.As for terrorist groups, they are almost certain to detonate a nuclear device within the target country itself & not by a sophisticated launched missile strike.

[DogOnPorch]

Wehereas the radar in Czechia can be taken out by conventional weapons, the silos in Poland will require nuclear strikes.

Highly doubtful if silos will be used. Since the initial launch vehicle for this system will be modified Minuteman II upper stages (then replaced by something new and dedicated), it is far more likely to be a mobile launch system much like today's nukes. Silos are so...so...1960s.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/missile-defense.htm

The Sovie...errr...Russians are just blowing steam for the most part as today's modern ICBMs don't need to be pre-aimed in the same fashion as old missiles. Back in the 'day', the ICBM (say like an old R7 or Titan II) would need to be filled with dangerous (often hypergolic) fuels pre-launch (you can't store them for long inside the rocket). Silos made this job much, much easier. These older ICBMs were also HUGE. The R7 still launches the Soyuz, Molniya and a few others...the Titan II was, of course, famous as the launcher for the highly successful Gemini Program.

For those who want to see all this kind of ballstic missile stuff "at work", please download the (still) free program/simulator I'm involved with known as Orbiter: Space Flight Simulator. A good 3D Video Card is needed.

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ORBITER is a free flight simulator that goes beyond the confines of Earth's atmosphere. Launch the Space Shuttle from Kennedy Space Center to deploy a satellite, rendezvous with the International Space Station or take the futuristic Delta-glider for a tour through the solar system - the choice is yours.

But make no mistake - ORBITER is not a space shooter. The emphasis is firmly on realism, and the learning curve can be steep.

---Dr Martin Schweiger: University College of London Department of Computer Science

[DogOnPorch]

The U.S. Missile Shield is a stupid idea & a vast waste of resources. It is designed to defend against nuclear missile threats from rogue states. Ok, now exactly how many "rogue states" have nuclear missile strike capabilities? Maybe North Korea, if it keeps up its program. Thats about it. Iran doesn't even have the capability yet, and even if they did i'm pretty sure the 'ol "if you bomb us we'll bomb you" philosophy from the cold war would keep them in check, as it did with the U.S. & the USSR for 50+ years. Pakistan is a Muslim nation, and they have yet to go nuclear wacko on anyone. Iran is run by a bunch of jerks, but they aren't completely idiotic/suicidal jerks.As for terrorist groups, they are almost certain to detonate a nuclear device within the target country itself & not by a sophisticated launched missile strike.

It's one of those things you have to have set up and ready-to-go. If one waits for the threat to become tangible, it will be far too late to be just starting R&D. As mentioned already: the shield costs more than the sword.

Plus, while there are some rather simple methods of delivery that we do have to worry about (suitcase, container-ship, et al) it will be the ICBM that will be more and more common as our new century wears on. Iran, for example, will be launching its own satellites soon enough using their Shahab launcher with kicker stage. Once they can do that, they can hit anywhere on Earth.

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(The) Road to (the) Stars is Open.

---Sergei Korolev's quote on the wall of Site 254, Baikonur

[M.Dancer]

The best missile shield there is currently sits on top of an intercontinental ballistic missile.....

[DogOnPorch]

DOP:Iran, for example, will be launching its own satellites soon enough using their Shahab launcher with kicker stage.

Well, well, well....looks like that day is already here.

Iran launches satellite carrier

Iran says it has successfully launched a rocket capable of carrying its first domestically built satellite.

Officials said only the rocket had been fired, correcting state media reports that the communications satellite itself had been sent into orbit.

The White House voiced concern, saying the technology could also be used for launching weapons.

Tehran has pursued a space programme for years, despite international concern over its nuclear plans.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/7566804.stm (includes launch footage)

Now, with a small attitude control system and retro pack, a payload will be able to make orbital plane changes and be brought down on target after re-entry. Cool, huh? Sleep well.

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The Iranian development and testing of rockets is troubling and raises further questions about their intentions.

---Gordon Johndroe: White House Spokesman

[WIP]

Yes...I know. It's a damn shame war isn't fair. We should just send the generals out in a field and have them hit themselves (and others!) on the noggins w/ clubs...eh??

The Soviet Union collapsed due to trying to keep up with ol' Ronnie Raygun's Star Warz. That plus Chernobyl. Game, set, match. However, since Russia made out pretty good in this deal, things are more like Europe than ever. Let's hope Islam doesn't get in the way there, too (fingers crossed).

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Look up. Look wayyyyy up.

---The Friendly Giant

Maybe we should go back over the history of the collapse of the Soviet Union, because once again, we have had one of those times when political idealogues changed party affiliation!

Ronald Reagan's strategy was to force the Soviet's to concede the Cold War when they realized they could not win the Arms Race. But the war hawks like McCain, who are claiming to be channeling Reagan's spirit today, seem to omit the fact that Reagan offered a carrot and stick approach to ending the Cold War. We all know what the stick was, but the carrot came with his declaration that the Cold War had no winners and losers, everyone was a winner, and he promised the Soviets that the U.S. would not encroach on their territory, and a democratic Soviet Union would be welcomed by the West.

Reagan's doctrine was followed for the most part by Bush I, but Bill Clinton's team decided to treat Russia as a defeated nation and followed an aggressive policy of buying influence in former Soviet republics, an open policy of bringing new nations bordering Russia into NATO, and trying to get oil from Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, to the West without having to go through Russia. Clinton supported the breakup of Yugoslavia, by quickly recognizing the independence of Slovakia, Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina, and even established the policy of supporting Albanian autonomy in Kosovo which led to its eventual independence from Serbia.

The policy of encircling Russia with hostile Western allies has been enthusiastically adopted by the Bush Administration; and here we are, on the brink of a world war that looks eerily similar to WWI -- a war that could have also have been easily avoided!

[HisSelf]

It's a Polichinel's secret that the real objective of this program is to develop technology to ensure US's nuclear dominance in the the era when emerging powers like China and India will come into prime. In their exalted minds, world designers a la Chaney, etc must have been dreaming of humanity's new gold age under America's thermonuclear axe, free of worries of mutual destruction. That's at the time when nuclear arsenals already capable of destroying all life 100 times over.

Bingo. Big time.

[HisSelf]

Maybe we should go back over the history of the collapse of the Soviet Union, because once again, we have had one of those times when political idealogues changed party affiliation!

Ronald Reagan's strategy was to force the Soviet's to concede the Cold War when they realized they could not win the Arms Race. But the war hawks like McCain, who are claiming to be channeling Reagan's spirit today, seem to omit the fact that Reagan offered a carrot and stick approach to ending the Cold War. We all know what the stick was, but the carrot came with his declaration that the Cold War had no winners and losers, everyone was a winner, and he promised the Soviets that the U.S. would not encroach on their territory, and a democratic Soviet Union would be welcomed by the West.

Reagan's doctrine was followed for the most part by Bush I, but Bill Clinton's team decided to treat Russia as a defeated nation and followed an aggressive policy of buying influence in former Soviet republics, an open policy of bringing new nations bordering Russia into NATO, and trying to get oil from Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, to the West without having to go through Russia. Clinton supported the breakup of Yugoslavia, by quickly recognizing the independence of Slovakia, Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina, and even established the policy of supporting Albanian autonomy in Kosovo which led to its eventual independence from Serbia.

The policy of encircling Russia with hostile Western allies has been enthusiastically adopted by the Bush Administration; and here we are, on the brink of a world war that looks eerily similar to WWI -- a war that could have also have been easily avoided!

Some fora have a bow-down smiley.

Oh we are not worthy.

What a marvellous post.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Some fora have a bow-down smiley.

Oh we are not worthy.

What a marvellous post.

I concur - great post, WIP!

Since some people are mentioning Chernobyl - that brings up another point.

Regardless of what was told to you about HOW it happened, I hope at least they told you WHAT happened.

It was a THERMAL explosion, not a nuclear one. And half of Europe got their share of radioactive rains.

Now imagine what will happen when a real nuclear or thermonuclear charge goes off ANYWHERE in Europe. Just one... How about 10? How about 100?

This should remind people that a nuclear war cannot be won.

Even if US and NATO have better hardware, more firepower, bigger armies - all it takes is a few explosions... and Europe is not that inhabitable anymore...

Russia could theoretically detonate a nuclear or thermonuclear device or devices on its own territory if cornered - Kaliningrad region would be a candidate...

Bottom line - you dont f*ck with nuclear countries... as in insult, humilitate and treat as powerless...

[DogOnPorch]

You all are great at stating the obvious. Now, how was my post in error again?

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A man's got to know his limitations.

---Inspector Harry Callahan

[Oleg Bach]

You all are great at stating the obvious. Now, how was my post in error again?

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A man's got to know his limitations.

---Inspector Harry Callahan

You have to remember that those in Washington and in Moscow are not the cream of the human crop. Over the last fifty years the cruelest and most mafia like persons have achieved great power and have taken over nations...they are not that smart. Holligan merchant class.