Canada's Gas Prices

[August1991]

So I guess you were fine with the US slapping a 30% anti dumping tariff on Softwood Lumber because the US didn't agree with how Canada calculated its stumpage fees? Wait is it possible the US wants us to do what they do? Damn right! Do as they do. Pass a copycat law requiring all oil produced in Canada, remains in Canada, for Canadian Use. Any unused Oil is then put it on the world market.

Whowhere, you confuse me.

You argue that we should not sell our oil to Americans and instead keep it for ourselves.

Yet, you also seem upset that we keep our softwood lumber for ourselves and Americans can't buy it.

----

I'm confused. According to you, it is bad for us if Americans buy our oil and yet it is also bad for us if they don't buy our wood.

Do I understand you right?

Edited July 16, 2008 by August1991

[whowhere]

Whowhere, you confuse me.

You argue that we should not sell our oil to Americans and instead keep it for ourselves.

Yet, you also seem upset that we keep our softwood lumber for ourselves and Americans can't buy it.

----

I'm confused. According to you, it is bad for us if Americans buy our oil and yet it is also bad for us if they don't buy our wood.

Do I understand you right?

Are you some kind of idiot?

[Smallc]

No, because Ontario will still send more taxes (GST, Income, Gas, ET, CPP, etc) than it would receive back in transfer payments. The Federal Government will only be giving back ontario its own money. New Brunswick on the other hand sends no surplus GST,Income, Gas, ET, CPP, etc but receives a transfer payment = !WELFARE!

Sorry, but Ontario won't be sending out money when they become have not, they'll be getting money from BC, AB, SK and N+L. !WELFARE!

[whowhere]

Sorry, but Ontario won't be sending out money when they become have not, they'll be getting money from BC, AB, SK and N+L. !WELFARE!

Ok smart ass what is meant by "fiscal imbalance"

[Smallc]

Ok smart ass what is meant by "fiscal imbalance"

That the fed has more money than the provinces. Its not really talked about anymore because a great deal of it has been eliminated. I'm not sure what it has to do with this.

[White Doors]

Unless you work for the Oil Company and live in Alberta, how are you benefiting from the Oil prices in Canada?

taxes, foreign investment, shareholders.

you have brought a swiss army knife to a gun fight whowhere.

lol

[White Doors]

also, while making of fun of NB for being a 'welfare' province on the one hand, you are asking for welfare on the other. That's kind of a strange 'position' to take is it not?

[blueblood]

Sorry, but Ontario won't be sending out money when they become have not, they'll be getting money from BC, AB, SK and N+L. !WELFARE!

Possibly MB when conawapa goes online and with increased oil production in the western part, and continued high grain prices.

[gc1765]

Why should Canadian taxpayers subsidize oil & gas for Canadians? Why should I as a taxpayer give you money so that you can spew carcinogens in the air, which I then breathe?

Also, if I own oil, why should I sell it to a Canadian cheaper than I sell it to a Chinese, Indian, or American. Maybe "racism" isn't the right term, but it's certainly discrimination based on which country you are from.

[Alta4ever]

..

Edited July 17, 2008 by Alta4ever

[madmax]

Why should Canadian taxpayers subsidize oil & gas for Canadians? Why should I as a taxpayer give you money so that you can spew carcinogens in the air, which I then breathe?

Liberal and Conservative governments subsidize the Oil and Gas Industries.

What's your point? That is not changing.

Also, if I own oil, why should I sell it to a Canadian cheaper than I sell it to a Chinese, Indian, or American. Maybe "racism" isn't the right term, but it's certainly discrimination based on which country you are from.

Why should we give tax breaks & Subsidies to OIL? We do, and it is THOSE countries listed above that benefit. Not ours? So why in Sam Hill should Canadian Taxes be used to help them and punish us?

End the tax breaks, and the subsidies and it is a different issue.

Otherwise we are getting the shaft.

[bush_cheney2004]

Why should we give tax breaks & Subsidies to OIL? We do, and it is THOSE countries listed above that benefit. Not ours? So why in Sam Hill should Canadian Taxes be used to help them and punish us?

Because Canada didn't have the domestic capital to develop the resource, and see it through hard times.

End the tax breaks, and the subsidies and it is a different issue.

Royalties have been raised on the mineral resources, but the basic economics remains the same. Canada already dicked things up once at the federal level with the NEP. Provinces will not bend over for that kind of "good deal" again.

Otherwise we are getting the shaft.

If anybody thinks there is a better deal in Venezuela, go for it.

[Smallc]

Possibly MB when conawapa goes online and with increased oil production in the western part, and continued high grain prices.

Very possible once all the new dams are on line, but it doesn't bother me either way. I like it here, and I don't mind getting money if we are below the average. We lead the provinces in growth this year and I think that alone is something to be proud of.

[whowhere]

Am I missing something?? Are you Canadians? If so, who are you for subsidizing? Canadian demand or subsidizing world demand?

If Nafta is ok with the US law requiring all oil produced in the US be available to the US for use then it would have to be OK if Canada had a like law in place. Is it our fault the US is a glutonous consumer of oil and in spite of this law would still require the importing of oil?

We export oil. That is a fact. Other countries who export oil, look after their own needs first. Not doing so, is subsidizing the true cost of oil. Who is subsidizing world oil prices? Canadians! Back in the day The government use to regulate the returns of Natural Gas/Hydro Utilities. Maybe it was 10%, who knows? If the government could regulate the returns back in those days, why could the government not regulate the returns being made on Oil being sold to Canadians!!!!! Sometime ago, I heard the Oil sands required $37 dollars a barrel to break even. Ok, be generous and allow them to sell this oil to Canadians for $45 dollars a barrel. Certainly, better than $140. Think about this for a second, Canadians are lining the oil companies pockets on each Barrel to the tune of $103 a barrel. How exactly is the average Canadian benefiting from this excess price we are paying? Zippo.

The fact is world consumption outstrips demand. This is not going to change. If Canadians consumed more of its oil at $45 dollars a barrel, that would drive the world oil price for a barrel to compensate for the difference being paid by Canadians. Maybe the world price would be pushed up to $200, Be sure of it (Regardless, its being pushed that way anyway!); but that is not Canada's or the Canadians problem is it? [!!At the moment it is!!] What would occur instead of Canada/Canadians subsidizing world prices, the world would be then be subsidizing Canadian prices. The oil companies will make up the money on world oil prices instead of making the easy money and taking it from Canadians.

If you are Canadians, I find your lack of good spirit/will towards fellow Canadians quite disturbing. Back in the day, you all would be stoned/hung for treason. What you are doing is pandering to the interest of OIL companies and foreign companies. If that your allegiance, move! You are no Canadian but a traitorous whore.

If after getting the oil sold to Canadians at $45 succeeds, by all means slap a Carbon tax on at the pump and use this money to fund projects.

For F'sakes stop subsidizing world prices at Canadians expense!

[madmax]

Because Canada didn't have the domestic capital to develop the resource, and see it through hard times.

The Market, and Market Demand would determine when those resources should become extracted. Now, if the reason was a Socialist handout to develop those resources in "hard times" then one can easily see that times are pretty good in the oil patch, and they do not need a handout.

If they are to become subsidized, better it be for Canadians, as its our money, so we should get it back. Until then, consumption goes offshore, and we get stuck with the "carbon footprint" which is stupid, and pay for others to have cheap affordable fuel.

Nothing against you, but our governments like to stick it to us, and do a great job of it.

Your Government is protecting your supply sources. It makes good sense.

Ours taxes us more again, and sends it to you untaxed in huge volumes. Some people believe that the tax will save the planet.

A strong economy requires you to put a roof over your head, food on the table and a good job. An Energy and Trade policy is the backbone of success to an export nation. But we also have a domestic economy that governments have dismissed since Mulroney.

Royalties have been raised on the mineral resources, but the basic economics remains the same.

Nothing near the scope of other countries. They have done a much better job of protecting and benefiting from those resources.

If anybody thinks there is a better deal in Venezuela, go for it.

Well, we are not Cuba either. So I doubt that we can score a good deal from them, and they know that Canada has LOTS of Oil. However, I believe Chavez has offered the US cheap oil to certain sectors of the country. You lucky guys you.

Chavez subsidizes his oil, for the benefit of the public, the middle class particularly. I have been there. They are very hot blooded about the black gold. Was no different with the right wing dictators before him when I was there. They did the same then, and it was cheaper to purchase.

You will have to try to overthrow him (again X3). But you already purchase lots of Venezualan oil, and we do to.

So don't screw up another oil exporting nation just for the "namesake" of your handle.

[gc1765]

Liberal and Conservative governments subsidize the Oil and Gas Industries.

Why should we give tax breaks & Subsidies to OIL? We do, and it is THOSE countries listed above that benefit. Not ours? So why in Sam Hill should Canadian Taxes be used to help them and punish us?

We shouldn't. What's your point?

[madmax]

For F'sakes stop subsidizing world prices at Canadians expense!

How about a Carbon Tax? Would that make you feel better. What about....... if "only" Canadians paid the Carbon Tax..... and then we give the money to the Oil companies in subsidies. Is that ok?

[madmax]

We shouldn't. What's your point?

That you differentiate between Canadian purchasers and the foreign purchasers of Oil. You choose to suggest that only Canadians should pay for the Tax. That Canadians shouldn't subsidize oil for the benefit of Canadians. Yet you promote a policy supported by the Liberals and Greens of tax shifting, and subsidization of the oil fields, while burdening only Canadians with the extra expense. Its f*#@(& stupid is my point.

Giving the oil companies a tax break, is a subsidy on Carbon, that you wish to shaft onto average Canadians trying to heat their homes and get to work by moving the tax onto the end user. But more oil is Exported and it isn't touched.

You have no problem killing the economic engine of Canada by taking an already unbalanced playing field and tilting upside down (For the sake of argument, should I say right or left).

It's as STUPID as the BC Liberals who DON'T tax the Fuel if you are driving to the US, but DO tax the fuel if you are driving within BC supporting local business.

It is retarded.

That is my point. The price of fuel is too high, oil companies make excessive profits and we give them handouts.

[gc1765]

Yet you promote a policy supported by the Liberals and Greens of tax shifting, and subsidization of the oil fields, while burdening only Canadians with the extra expense.

Where the hell did I say that we should subsidize the oil fields??

[whowhere]

Am I missing something?? Are you Canadians? If so, who are you for subsidizing? Canadian demand or subsidizing world demand?

If Nafta is ok with the US law requiring all oil produced in the US be available to the US for use then it would have to be OK if Canada had a like law in place. Is it our fault the US is a glutonous consumer of oil and in spite of this law would still require the importing of oil?

We export oil. That is a fact. Other countries who export oil, look after their own needs first. Not doing so, is subsidizing the true cost of oil. Who is subsidizing world oil prices? Canadians! Back in the day The government use to regulate the returns of Natural Gas/Hydro Utilities. Maybe it was 10%, who knows? If the government could regulate the returns back in those days, why could the government not regulate the returns being made on Oil being sold to Canadians!!!!! Sometime ago, I heard the Oil sands required $37 dollars a barrel to break even. Ok, be generous and allow them to sell this oil to Canadians for $45 dollars a barrel. Certainly, better than $140. Think about this for a second, Canadians are lining the oil companies pockets on each Barrel to the tune of $103 a barrel. How exactly is the average Canadian benefiting from this excess price we are paying? Zippo.

The fact is world consumption outstrips demand. This is not going to change. If Canadians consumed more of its oil at $45 dollars a barrel, that would drive the world oil price for a barrel to compensate for the difference being paid by Canadians. Maybe the world price would be pushed up to $200, Be sure of it (Regardless, its being pushed that way anyway!); but that is not Canada's or the Canadians problem is it? [!!At the moment it is!!] What would occur instead of Canada/Canadians subsidizing world prices, the world would be then be subsidizing Canadian prices. The oil companies will make up the money on world oil prices instead of making the easy money and taking it from Canadians.

If you are Canadians, I find your lack of good spirit/will towards fellow Canadians quite disturbing. Back in the day, you all would be stoned/hung for treason. What you are doing is pandering to the interest of OIL companies and foreign companies. If that your allegiance, move! You are no Canadian but a traitorous whore.

If after getting the oil sold to Canadians at $45 succeeds, by all means slap a Carbon tax on at the pump and use this money to fund projects.

For F'sakes stop subsidizing world prices at Canadians expense!

The After posts decided to jack this thread and talk about the Liberal Green Shift plan among other things. Threads always get jacked off topic to obfuscate the points.

1/ My point is Canadians are subsudizing the cost of oil to the rest of the world.

2/ The US has laws in place to have oil produced in the US to be made available to the US. Nafta is obviously ok with this law.

3/ Natural gas/hydro once upon a time had their returns regulated. The oil sands are so beyond profitable they are outright gouging every Canadian. The only way to reign in this gouging is to regulate the return on each barrel of oil sold to Canadians. Why should Canadians not benefit from the Natural Resources of Canada? At the same time providing employment and a real rate of return to the oil sands. That is how companies such as Enbridge, Transatlantic gas grew to be large companies.

4/ Once Canadians are getting their oil from the Oil sands (and it is Canada's oil!) at a realistic per barrel rate of say $45 per barrel by all means talk about placing a carbon tax at the pump.

NEW POINT!!!

Because the media, environmentalist, and pandering politicians are so bent on ruining peoples lives with ways to jack up gas prices they inadvertantly are turning Ontario into a welfare province. The amount of jobs lost in Ontario because of the run up in oil and gas prices is astronomical. If this were not recipe enough for Ontario's fall, Ontario's fall is further accelerated by a Canadian dollar being pushed up in Tandem with Oil prices. The point that is lost on the media and the politicians is Ontario is/was a huge commuting province. Scores of people in Southern Ontario commuted to work. Commuting creates automotive jobs! commuting creates automotive service jobs. commuting requires gas, insurance, and plates which TAXES are paid on Income which is required to cover these Expenses!!! Think about it. If people are not working, they are not paying this extra tax!!!!

The amount of Income tax and gas taxes paid by the Ontario Commuter has been crushed by the greed of Alberta, the stupid media, and the dumb ass politicians. The ontario commuter will return as the world brings a viable alternative to gasoline to power vehicles. Whether that be electric or whatever. Ontario I am sure will remember.

[bush_cheney2004]

The After posts decided to jack this thread and talk about the Liberal Green Shift plan among other things. Threads always get jacked off topic to obfuscate the points.

1/ My point is Canadians are subsudizing the cost of oil to the rest of the world.

OK....so what? The Americans are subsudizing (sic) pharmaceuticals for Canada. You wanna change the rules now that foreign capital (and oil markets) made it possible.

2/ The US has laws in place to have oil produced in the US to be made available to the US. Nafta is obviously ok with this law.

The US also has handguns on demand, capital punishment, and better cell phone plans. You don't live in the US of A.

3/ Natural gas/hydro once upon a time had their returns regulated. The oil sands are so beyond profitable they are outright gouging every Canadian. The only way to reign in this gouging is to regulate the return on each barrel of oil sold to Canadians. Why should Canadians not benefit from the Natural Resources of Canada? At the same time providing employment and a real rate of return to the oil sands. That is how companies such as Enbridge, Transatlantic gas grew to be large companies.

Nationalizing the resource and infrastructure will gouge you in many other ways. What's the big deal about gas prices anyway? Ever been to Europe?

4/ Once Canadians are getting their oil from the Oil sands (and it is Canada's oil!) at a realistic per barrel rate of say $45 per barrel by all means talk about placing a carbon tax at the pump.

Of course...the oil will just magically appear as refined gasoline and distillates because you pass a copycat Yankee law.

Good luck, Podner!

Edited July 17, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[M.Dancer]

What makes the premise of this thread so assinine is today oil prices are falling on the news that US reserves are higher than expected. The moral is that the US isnot removed from the oil world market. The US has a huge impact on the price of fuel ...surprise surprise ...becuase the demand so much....larger reserves, more product available , lower prices...

Hip Hip Hurrah USA on your larger than expected reserves....to celebrate my wife went out andfilled up at 6 cents a litre cheaper that it was last week,

[whowhere]

OK....so what? The Americans are subsudizing (sic) pharmaceuticals for Canada. You wanna change the rules now that foreign capital (and oil markets) made it possible.

Do you want to split hairs when the US sub prime debacle was elaborate scheme to defraud world investors by packaging and selling this debt as safe investments. How about Enron? Face it the US the US is biased and one sided. There is the US and the rest of the world.

The US also has handguns on demand, capital punishment, and better cell phone plans. You don't live in the US of A.

Hey, all I am saying is pass the same law. If we pass the same law as the US, we are nationalizing but the yet the US isn't. Makes no sense.

Nationalizing the resource and infrastructure will gouge you in many other ways. What's the big deal about gas prices anyway? Ever been to Europe?

Of course...the oil will just magically appear as refined gasoline and distillates because you pass a copycat Yankee law.

Good luck, Podner!

The point is, why should I be subsizidizing world demand for oil.

[M.Dancer]

The point is, why should I be subsizidizing world demand for oil.

You're not. Thanks for coming.

[Wilber]

4/ Once Canadians are getting their oil from the Oil sands (and it is Canada's oil!) at a realistic per barrel rate of say $45 per barrel by all means talk about placing a carbon tax at the pump.

Realistic is what the market will bear. Realistic is what you are willing to pay. Why do some think that they have a right to something for less than what others are willing to pay or that someone else should have to sell to them for less? This statement illustrates perfectly that for some this is an issue of ideology not the environment. For them the issue is not the environment or even the price, but who profits.