Albert Einstein says 'Belief in God 'childish,'

[kuzadd]

well since I don't believe in any 'chosen people' nonsense either, I'm pleased to see great minds think alike.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080513/wl_uk...ncejewseinstein

LONDON (AFP) - Albert Einstein described belief in God as "childish superstition" and said Jews were not the chosen people, in a letter to be sold in London this week, an auctioneer said Tuesday.

As a Jew himself, Einstein said he had a great affinity with Jewish people but said they "have no different quality for me than all other people".

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.

"No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this," he wrote in the letter written on January 3, 1954 to the philosopher Eric Gutkind, cited by The Guardian newspaper.

The German-language letter is being sold Thursday by Bloomsbury Auctions in Mayfair after being in a private collection for more than 50 years, said the auction house's managing director Rupert Powell.

any bidders here?

[DogOnPorch]

well since I don't believe in any 'chosen people' nonsense either, I'm pleased to see great minds think alike.

kuzadd = Einstein? Interesting. Maybe we should ask Stephen Hawking re: the Jew's status.

---------------------------------------

God not only plays dice, He also sometimes throws the dice where they cannot be seen.

---Stephen Hawking

[kuzadd]

I was indoctrinated Roman Catholic, taught that Catholics are chosen, I don't believe that either.

Einstein didn't have much use for religion, therefore, no religion, no chosen people either.

here's another quote from his letter

"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions," he said.

[White Doors]

and yet he believed in God

[noahbody]

and yet he believed in God

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

- Albert Einstein, letter to an atheist (1954), quoted in Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas & Banesh Hoffman

http://atheism.about.com/od/einsteingodrel...ersonal-God.htm

[Rue]

well since I don't believe in any 'chosen people' nonsense either, I'm pleased to see great minds think alike.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080513/wl_uk...ncejewseinstein

The German-language letter is being sold Thursday by Bloomsbury Auctions in Mayfair after being in a private collection for more than 50 years, said the auction house's managing director Rupert Powell.

any bidders here?

Let's start with the obvious. Having been born a Jew, Einstein knew that the concept "chosen" in the Jewish religion does not refer to Jews being better or more special then anyone else and so he would not reject it for the reason you do. In your past posts you have repeated an ancient anti-semitic cannard that Jews believe we are superior to others because we are "chosen" and Zionism is racism because we believe we are a "chosen" race. Both are false statements and myths based on begative stereotypical assumptions as to the beliefs of Jews which necessarily suggest we are intolerant of others since we think we are better then them.

Now you suggest Einstein would have the same mistaken belief about Judaism as you do. Don't thinks so. In fact Einstein made many comments about religion but never once questioned Judaism as you have suggested.

He talked about a cosmic and universal religion and in reference to Spinoza. In fact when he talked of religion he rejected the notion of a personal God and a vindicative or judgemental God that punishes. He did not like any fundamentalism, but one thing he was not, and that was a self-hating Jew. He never once insulted the Jewish religion and when he talked of religions, he criticized them all equally.

Classic quotes from him on religion and his religious views can be found on these three web-sites to start with;

http://www.mat.univie.ac.at/~neum/contrib/lesikar.html

http://www.adherents.com/people/pe/Albert_Einstein.html

http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Theology-Albert-Einstein.htm

In fact the only discipline Einstein ever referred to directly and positively was Buddhism and its technically not a religion as it does not prescribe a God and focuses on finding a path humans can follow to enlighten themselves and find and pursue their destiny-if anything it might define the debate as to whether Gdo exists or not to be something that humans should not waste their energy on since we can not prove or disprove it-in Einstein's Spinoza like approach to God it is an abstract God and his concepts would not stoop so low or so simplistic as to misunderstand a basic doctrine sich as the one you Kuzadd misrepresent.

So no you are not in his company. I doubt you even read what he really said but simply just assume you think because he does not agree with all formal religions and fundamentalism he must think like you and misunderstand the Jewish religion like you do. Don't think so. He was a bit more intelligent then that.

Edited May 13, 2008 by Rue

[HisSelf]

I think it's dangerous to take a guy like Einstein outside of his area of expertise, no matter how brilliant he may be.... and there can be no question that Einstein was brilliant. We're talking Newtonian brilliance... Da Vincite. Archimedic... whatever....

I think the idea of a chosen people is a little silly myself, since I am an atheist, but then I'm no Einstein.

LOL.

[sharkman]

Wow, Kuzad finaly found a jew she could admire, if only for one thing!

[Remiel]

What I think may be of particular interest is that in the future you are going to see a reversal in who tries to refer to Einstein in order to justify their beliefs, and who dismisses him out of hand because he is not a philosopher. The result of course will not have any bearing on whether God does or does not exist, but it may show whether the answer most individuals gave was only ever partisan...

I suppose it will be interesting to see how and who give the same answer they did before...

[WIP]

Let's start with the obvious. Having been born a Jew, Einstein knew that the concept "chosen" in the Jewish religion does not refer to Jews being better or more special then anyone else and so he would not reject it for the reason you do. In your past posts you have repeated an ancient anti-semitic cannard that Jews believe we are superior to others because we are "chosen" and Zionism is racism because we believe we are a "chosen" race. Both are false statements and myths based on begative stereotypical assumptions as to the beliefs of Jews which necessarily suggest we are intolerant of others since we think we are better then them.

Now you suggest Einstein would have the same mistaken belief about Judaism as you do. Don't thinks so. In fact Einstein made many comments about religion but never once questioned Judaism as you have suggested.

He talked about a cosmic and universal religion and in reference to Spinoza. In fact when he talked of religion he rejected the notion of a personal God and a vindicative or judgemental God that punishes. He did not like any fundamentalism, but one thing he was not, and that was a self-hating Jew. He never once insulted the Jewish religion and when he talked of religions, he criticized them all equally.

Classic quotes from him on religion and his religious views can be found on these three web-sites to start with;

http://www.mat.univie.ac.at/~neum/contrib/lesikar.html

http://www.adherents.com/people/pe/Albert_Einstein.html

http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Theology-Albert-Einstein.htm

In fact the only discipline Einstein ever referred to directly and positively was Buddhism and its technically not a religion as it does not prescribe a God and focuses on finding a path humans can follow to enlighten themselves and find and pursue their destiny-if anything it might define the debate as to whether Gdo exists or not to be something that humans should not waste their energy on since we can not prove or disprove it-in Einstein's Spinoza like approach to God it is an abstract God and his concepts would not stoop so low or so simplistic as to misunderstand a basic doctrine sich as the one you Kuzadd misrepresent.

So no you are not in his company. I doubt you even read what he really said but simply just assume you think because he does not agree with all formal religions and fundamentalism he must think like you and misunderstand the Jewish religion like you do. Don't think so. He was a bit more intelligent then that.

Einstein would be classified as a secular Jew since he supported the principles of Zionism and the creation of the State of Israel. He was even offered the presidency, but turned it down because he did not feel he would make a good political leader. Einstein causes some confusion because he never fully defines his own spiritual beliefs, and it's possible that he waffled a bit, and wasn't certain whether he was a deist or an atheist. He actually wrote letters that criticize both atheists and believers in God. Certainly Einstein wasn't a religious Jew, since his "God", the God of Spinoza is the same one that popular science writers such as Stephen Hawking and Carl Sagan, have identified as their definition of God.

There are many Jews who would also be classified as Secular Jews; they have been born into Jewish families, value the traditions and recognized that their history is one of being part of a persecuted minority that was almost exterminated in Europe. Many years ago, I worked for a Jewish man who was a holocaust survivor and was himself an atheist Jew. He lost most of his family and extended family; there were only a handful of survivors from the Polish village where he grew up, and he was one of the fortunate few who survived. He came away from the experience feeling that there was no God to answer prayers, and his people had to save themselves from any future disaster. But, he also viewed holding onto his Jewish identity and religion as an act of defiance, and believed that even unbelieving Jews who came out of the Holocaust had to keep their religion or they would be acquiescing to the wishes of those who tried to exterminate them.

[Guest American Woman]

well since I don't believe in any 'chosen people' nonsense either, I'm pleased to see great minds think alike.

Another quote:

"There are people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such views." link

Furthermore,

Einstein tended to be more critical of debunkers, who seemed to lack humility or a sense of awe, than of the faithful. "The fanatical atheists," he wrote in a letter, "are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who--in their grudge against traditional religion as the 'opium of the masses'-- cannot hear the music of the spheres."

You accept the historical existence of Jesus? "Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."

He's not an atheist:

In a 1950 letter to M. Berkowitz, Einstein stated that "My position concerning God is that of an agnostic." link

So what it all boils down to is that no, he doesn't think like you. Furthermore, there are many "great minds" who do have a strong faith/belief in God.

Edited May 13, 2008 by American Woman

[WIP]

I think it's dangerous to take a guy like Einstein outside of his area of expertise, no matter how brilliant he may be.... and there can be no question that Einstein was brilliant. We're talking Newtonian brilliance... Da Vincite. Archimedic... whatever....

I think the idea of a chosen people is a little silly myself, since I am an atheist, but then I'm no Einstein.

LOL.

It's sort of the flipside to Christians who cite Christian scientists such as Francis Collins and Ken Miller as justification for their beliefs. Any argument from authority is a bad one! People should learn and develop a base of knowledge to decide for themselves what they should believe. Your core existential beliefs should not be determined by what Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking or Ken Miller believe! That is the ultimate in intellectual laziness.

[CANADIEN]

Let's start with the obvious. Having been born a Jew, Einstein knew that the concept "chosen" in the Jewish religion does not refer to Jews being better or more special then anyone else and so he would not reject it for the reason you do. In your past posts you have repeated an ancient anti-semitic cannard that Jews believe we are superior to others because we are "chosen" and Zionism is racism because we believe we are a "chosen" race. Both are false statements and myths based on begative stereotypical assumptions as to the beliefs of Jews which necessarily suggest we are intolerant of others since we think we are better then them..

Interesting. I once heard (or read, so long ago) a quote from a rabbi stating not only that being the Chosen people was not a sign of Jewish superiority, but it was more a curse than a blessing.

Edited May 14, 2008 by CANADIEN

[M.Dancer]

Interesting. I once heard (or read, so long ago) a quote from a rabbi stating not only that being the Chosen people was not a sign of Jewish superiority, but it was more a curse than a blessing.

I've heard similar .....being chosen is like being a 10k rough stone....you get bashed and hammered until what is left is what was chosen.

[buffycat]

well since I don't believe in any 'chosen people' nonsense either, I'm pleased to see great minds think alike.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080513/wl_uk...ncejewseinstein

The German-language letter is being sold Thursday by Bloomsbury Auctions in Mayfair after being in a private collection for more than 50 years, said the auction house's managing director Rupert Powell.

any bidders here?

Great minds kuzadd!

Do you have a link to the original in German. I know that there are a few speakers here, and I for sure, would love to read it in German.

Thanks in advance!

B

[kuzadd]

Wow, Kuzad finaly found a jew she could admire, if only for one thing!

actually I admire a great many jews, but not because they are jewish, which is irrelevant, I just love who they are! Two of my huge favourites are Howard Zinn and Steve Lendman.

Lov'em both.

YOu should really get a life, stop obsessing over me.

[kuzadd]

Let's start with the obvious. Having been born a Jew, Einstein knew that the concept "chosen" in the Jewish religion does not refer to Jews being better or more special then anyone else and so he would not reject it for the reason you do. In your past posts you have repeated an ancient anti-semitic cannard that Jews believe we are superior to others because we are "chosen" and Zionism is racism because we believe we are a "chosen" race. Both are false statements and myths based on begative stereotypical assumptions as to the beliefs of Jews which necessarily suggest we are intolerant of others since we think we are better then them.

Now you suggest Einstein would have the same mistaken belief about Judaism as you do. Don't thinks so. In fact Einstein made many comments about religion but never once questioned Judaism as you have suggested.

He talked about a cosmic and universal religion and in reference to Spinoza. In fact when he talked of religion he rejected the notion of a personal God and a vindicative or judgemental God that punishes. He did not like any fundamentalism, but one thing he was not, and that was a self-hating Jew. He never once insulted the Jewish religion and when he talked of religions, he criticized them all equally.

Classic quotes from him on religion and his religious views can be found on these three web-sites to start with;

http://www.mat.univie.ac.at/~neum/contrib/lesikar.html

http://www.adherents.com/people/pe/Albert_Einstein.html

http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Theology-Albert-Einstein.htm

In fact the only discipline Einstein ever referred to directly and positively was Buddhism and its technically not a religion as it does not prescribe a God and focuses on finding a path humans can follow to enlighten themselves and find and pursue their destiny-if anything it might define the debate as to whether Gdo exists or not to be something that humans should not waste their energy on since we can not prove or disprove it-in Einstein's Spinoza like approach to God it is an abstract God and his concepts would not stoop so low or so simplistic as to misunderstand a basic doctrine sich as the one you Kuzadd misrepresent.

So no you are not in his company. I doubt you even read what he really said but simply just assume you think because he does not agree with all formal religions and fundamentalism he must think like you and misunderstand the Jewish religion like you do. Don't think so. He was a bit more intelligent then that.

In your past posts you have repeated an ancient anti-semitic cannard that Jews believe we are superior to others because we are "chosen"

actually I have never said anything like that, perhaps you are reading jbg's posts and assuming they or mine, or even some of your own.

BTW: don't make it so personal, it's not, and IMO, you make huge assumptions all on your own, based on your own thinking. Not on mine.

[kuzadd]

So what it all boils down to is that no, he doesn't think like you. Furthermore, there are many "great minds" who do have a strong faith/belief in God.

And you know exactly what I think right????

I am quoting from the letter up for auction written in Einsteins own words, if he is contradictory or conflicted it's not my problem is it?

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish"

"No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this," he wrote in the letter written on January 3, 1954 to the philosopher Eric Gutkind

"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions," he said.

"And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people."

"As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them."

All quotes from the letter, and based on these, it appears Einstein has no belief in "chosen people" of any kind, which is a belief I share, and little for religion either.

So AW, based on this letter, he certainly does seem to share common thoughts with myself.

It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.

- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, November 9, 1930

oh and this one, is another thought I can wholeheartedly agree with!

Edited May 14, 2008 by kuzadd

[Rue]

And you know exactly what I think right????

I am quoting from the letter up for auction written in Einsteins own words, if he is contradictory or conflicted it's not my problem is it?

All quotes from the letter, and based on these, it appears Einstein has no belief in "chosen people" of any kind, which is a belief I share, and little for religion either.

So AW, based on this letter, he certainly does seem to share common thoughts with myself.

oh and this one, is another thought I can wholeheartedly agree with!

Nice try but you have deliberately taken what he was stating out of context by deliberately ignorning the next paragraph which states:

"In general I find it painful that you claim a privileged position and try to defend it by two walls of pride, an external one as a man and an internal one as a Jew. As a man you claim, so to speak, a dispensation from causality otherwise accepted, as a Jew the priviliege of monotheism.But a limited causality is no longer a causality at all, as our wonderful Spinoza recognized with all incision, probably as the first one. And the animistic interpretations of the religions of nature are in principle not annulled by monopolisation. With such walls we can only attain a certain self-deception, but our moral efforts are not furthered by them. On the contrary."

The concept of "chosen" Einstein criticizes is in reference to is the priviliege of monotheism NOT the concept of chosen you suggest he is criticizing and that you claim you agree with him on.

You deliberately removed the "chosen" he was criticizing it from its actual context and reference. What he criticizes is the concept that a Jew and for that matter a Christian or a Muslim or any other person believing that a monotheistic religion makes them chosen, i.e. different then others.

Because he is dialoguing with another Jew they are discussing this in reference to Judaism in general not the specific doctrine you think he is criticizing.

When talking to another Jew they would not as you do misuse the concept of "chosen Jew" as you do. They would know better. That is why one has to look at the actual context his "chosen" refers to which is monotheism in general.

His criticism does not specifically assume or state which doctrine from which religion, he feels creates a superiority complex. He would not engage in such simplistic criticism that would take a doctrine out of its actual meaning and context.

The "chosen" or "special" status he refers to is not specific to any one Jewish doctrine or any Christian doctrine or Muslim doctrine but all of them in general and for the same reasons-he does not feel it possible to have a personal relationship with God nor does he believe God would judge people.

His criticism of Judaism and Christianity are much more general and sweeping then the specific meaning you have given them. He has not stated he believes the concepts of Jews having a covenant with God causes them to believe they are superior.Anyone taking the time to read it can see that.

Einstein isn't confused you are. Given your earlier references to Judaism and Zionism being racist I don't even think you are confused. I think you see and project what you want to see into dialogue and then assume the dialoguers have the same beliefs as you.

They would find your trivialization of Jewish doctrine or Zionism annoying not to mention completely removed from what they are discussing.

Einstein makes reference repeatedly to Spinoza. Why don't you try understand why Spinoza would influence him and how it would lead him to hold the abstract concepts he would about God which would lead him to criticize all religions equally. The fact you take a dialogue between him and another to single out Judaism I suppose is politically oppotune for you but he never singled out Judaism any differently then he did all other monotheistic religions, despite your efforts to take a letter out of context to suggest it does.

Edited May 15, 2008 by Rue

[DogOnPorch]

Non-scientists using a scientist's non-scientific opinions...and using them like they were, infact, science. As any good scientist can tell you, there are no expert opinions in science. Once a scientist starts using his or her clout in place of science, he/she stops being a scientist. Science is one thing and one thing only: the scientific method. So what value is Albert's opinion in this non-scientific area? As good as mine or yours?

--------------------------------------------------

It was a one eye, one horned flying purple people eater...

---Sheb Wooley

[kuzadd]

Nice try but you have deliberately taken what he was stating out of context by deliberately ignorning the next paragraph which states:

"In general I find it painful that you claim a privileged position and try to defend it by two walls of pride, an external one as a man and an internal one as a Jew. As a man you claim, so to speak, a dispensation from causality otherwise accepted, as a Jew the priviliege of monotheism.But a limited causality is no longer a causality at all, as our wonderful Spinoza recognized with all incision, probably as the first one. And the animistic interpretations of the religions of nature are in principle not annulled by monopolisation. With such walls we can only attain a certain self-deception, but our moral efforts are not furthered by them. On the contrary."

The concept of "chosen" Einstein criticizes is in reference to is the priviliege of monotheism NOT the concept of chosen you suggest he is criticizing and that you claim you agree with him on.

You deliberately removed the "chosen" he was criticizing it from its actual context and reference. What he criticizes is the concept that a Jew and for that matter a Christian or a Muslim or any other person believing that a monotheistic religion makes them chosen, i.e. different then others.

Because he is dialoguing with another Jew they are discussing this in reference to Judaism in general not the specific doctrine you think he is criticizing.

When talking to another Jew they would not as you do misuse the concept of "chosen Jew" as you do. They would know better. That is why one has to look at the actual context his "chosen" refers to which is monotheism in general.

His criticism does not specifically assume or state which doctrine from which religion, he feels creates a superiority complex. He would not engage in such simplistic criticism that would take a doctrine out of its actual meaning and context.

The "chosen" or "special" status he refers to is not specific to any one Jewish doctrine or any Christian doctrine or Muslim doctrine but all of them in general and for the same reasons-he does not feel it possible to have a personal relationship with God nor does he believe God would judge people.

His criticism of Judaism and Christianity are much more general and sweeping then the specific meaning you have given them. He has not stated he believes the concepts of Jews having a covenant with God causes them to believe they are superior.Anyone taking the time to read it can see that.

Einstein isn't confused you are. Given your earlier references to Judaism and Zionism being racist I don't even think you are confused. I think you see and project what you want to see into dialogue and then assume the dialoguers have the same beliefs as you.

They would find your trivialization of Jewish doctrine or Zionism annoying not to mention completely removed from what they are discussing.

Einstein makes reference repeatedly to Spinoza. Why don't you try understand why Spinoza would influence him and how it would lead him to hold the abstract concepts he would about God which would lead him to criticize all religions equally. The fact you take a dialogue between him and another to single out Judaism I suppose is politically oppotune for you but he never singled out Judaism any differently then he did all other monotheistic religions, despite your efforts to take a letter out of context to suggest it does.

I deliberately removed the chosen from what?????

Look at the original news article I quoted from, okay.

You will see I quoted from from that news article, ie: the quotes that were contained in the news article.

I did not remove anything from the paragraph, as you are claiming, since the paragraph, you are claiming I removed something from was not in the originating news article!

You rue have not read a word I have actually said, and that my friend is your total problem, look at my comments! Stop being so outraged over nothing!

here's what I said:

'well since I don't believe in any 'chosen people' nonsense either"

I then said: "I was indoctrinated Roman Catholic, taught that Catholics are chosen, I don't believe that either."

are you outraged for catholics also.?

Had you ever actually read anything I have actually said, you would not by now, I do not believe any religion has chosen people, and that no religions people(followers , beleivers) are the chosen ones.

I never singled out Judaism, or Jewish doctrine in any of my comments, nor have I ever said anything you are claiming, this is from your own imagination, conjured via your own biases.

Keep you inflammatory and biased comments to yourself.

My comments wrt to Israel have always been the same, the country is an occupier, and a human rights abuser, there have been many examples of racist tendencies amongst her people also, as human beings they are not immune to the follies of humanity..

It appears to be you that promotes and believes otherwise, hence your irrational outrage!

Ya know what Rue, i think your all hot and bothered that Einstein heaped disdain, on religion in general and that he included Judaism in that.

I think it bother you that he also stated the Jews were like everyone else, just people, just human beings, who mess things up , and are as capable of good and bad as everyone else.

That's what has got your knickers in a knot IMO, don't take it out on me in such a childish manner as putting words in my mouth, and claiming I left out entire paragraphs that were NOT in the originating news article.

[kuzadd]

an update on the sale of the letter:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/may...ersiesinscience

Einstein's letter on religion sells for £170,000

A letter in which Albert Einstein branded religious beliefs as "childish superstitions" and the "product of human weaknesses" has been sold at auction in London for £170,000 to a private collector, smashing the world record for a letter by the great scientist.

don't read the article rue, it contains quotes , that you will find so outrageous.

But hey you can always blame me for the way the article is written, then make outrageous accusations against me, if that's what it takes for you to "feel good"

[margrace]

When I read the posts on here I wonder how many believe in the old fellow up there in the white nightgown. It is time that we removed our beliefs in a God in our image. What I believe is that the whole universe is God or whatever you want to call it. And we are all men, whales, snakes whatever part of that. How we live our own life is our choice. I am not saying that we are all created equal because we are not. Some certainly are born with a lot more than others but we are all part of the universe and therefore part of what ever God is.

One of the problems I see is that some of us never really grow up, we continue until our deaths to need a father figure to tell us what to do. Then there are those of us who know it all or so we think and we will run our lives the way we want. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't.

[kuzadd]

btw rue have you hear the bush quotes from his recent visit to Israel, what's your interpretation on him using the "chosen people" words.

Bush stands by 'chosen people' of Israel

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...89-2703,00.html

US President George W. Bush told Israelis yesterday they were a "chosen people" who could forever count on American support against enemies such as Hamas and Iran.

Speaking of the "promise of God" for a "homeland for the chosen people" in Israel, Mr Bush told the Israeli parliament after a visit to the Roman-era Jewish fortress at Masada: "Masada shall never fall again, and America will always stand with you.

Do you think he was speaking , as Einstein was?

Or was he speaking in another way?

Is he perpetuating a myth?

Are you all outraged now? because he seems to be implying a preferential "the chosen people" and he is not Jewish, btw, so how is it he would/should have the belief of the Jews as "chosen people". As opposed to the christians as being chosen?

Though I believe he is what is called a christian zionist?

They believe the Jews are indeed a chosen people, God's chosen people.

They need the Jews to use for their end time fulfillment.

What does that all mean to you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism

[Guest American Woman]

It seems as if there's a lot of misinterpretation regarding "the chosen people." I've thought that since Jesus was a Jew and God sent Jesus to tell the world of God, it meant the Jews were "chosen" to spread the word. I didn't think it meant "chosen" as in "special treatment" or "more special than others."

As for Bush, he also said in his speech:

.... as we mark 60 years from Israel's founding, let us try to envision the region 60 years from now. [...]

Israel will be celebrating the 120th anniversary as one of the world's great democracies, a secure and flourishing homeland for the Jewish people. The Palestinian people will have the homeland they have long dreamed of and deserved -- a democratic state that is governed by law, and respects human rights, and rejects terror.

I'm not defending Bush's speech-- that's not the purpose of my post, and I don't think he has the right to speak for all Americans, but I don't think he refers to the Jews as being more "special" than anyone else when he refers to "the chosen people" in his speech, or as "preferential" as you suggest, Kuzadd.

Edited May 16, 2008 by American Woman