RCMP raids Tory party headquarters

[sharkman]

Some lefties on this forum are conspiracy theorists as well.

Oh wait, that's you.

dobbin thinks that the Tories leaked the news of the raid themselves, talk about a leftwing conspiracy theory!

[jdobbin]

Some lefties on this forum are conspiracy theorists as well.

Oh wait, that's you.

Since the RCMP had no evidence to support putting Goodale in the letter to the NDP, it certainly smacks of trying to influence the election. The former RCMP commissioner refused to answer questions about it along with four others.

The RCMP Complaints Commissioner was certainly left scratching his head and even Andrew Cohen of Maclean's, a decidedly non-lefty says it was strategically announced to do the most damage.

The RCMP may not have had any policy on announcing investigations but their standard practice at that time was to refuse to confirm or deny an investigation. The reason given for that response was to not tip off parties about RCMP intentions in criminal cases. Why the sudden change?

No conspiracy theory at all. The RCMP made a political decision with their announcement rather than one based on previous police procedures.

[Shakeyhands]

No conspiracy theory at all. The RCMP made a political decision with their announcement rather than one based on previous police procedures.

And the Privacy commish admitted as much.

[DrGreenthumb]

lol

see?

Drgreenie, you take a break from the forums and I will post for you.

Cool?

I got a better idea why don't you give your reasons why 6 months mandatory minimums are appropriate for growing a single cannabis plant?

Or you could just go back to trying to come up with anything you can say to distract from all the TORY scandals that are coming to light practically every day.

Or you could just go back to polishing your jackboots and pressing your brown shirts? lol

If you think your ignorant posts insulting me because I support the right of people to use plant based FREE medications are going to hurt me or deter me, think again. I find it rather amusing and it just opens another opportunity to point out how ridiculously authoritarian and paternalistic your party is. So go ahead and insult and personal attack to your hearts content, you only show everybody that you have no real reason to justify your parties fascism, and that you only want to distract everyone from your parties obvious corruption.

Please keep bringing up the pot issue so that I can put your parties idiocy on display for all to see. I prefer when someone else brings it up so that I can reply to the post and be somewhat on topic.

[noahbody]

More personal attacks, instead of just insulting me over pot why not try justify your parties position that people should face mandaTORY jail time for using or growing it?

Do you have a citation for that? Here's a summary of bill C-2. I don't see where it says you'll get a mandatory sentence for using or growing it, unless your grow-up has more than 500 plants.

* One-year mandatory prison sentence for selling marijuana as part of an organized criminal gang or if weapons or violence are involved;

* Mandatory two-year sentence for dealing illegal drugs, such as cocaine or methamphetamines, to youth or for dealing near a school or in

an area frequented by youth;

* Mandatory two-year sentence for operating marijuana grow-ops containing at least 500 plants;

* The maximum penalty for marijuana production would increase from seven to 14 years;

* Tougher penalties for trafficking of date-rape drugs;

* Two-year mandatory prison sentence if convicted of dealing hard drugs such as cocaine or heroin.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...me=&no_ads=

Edited April 18, 2008 by noahbody

[sharkman]

I got a better idea why don't you give your reasons why 6 months mandatory minimums are appropriate for growing a single cannabis plant?

Or you could just go back to trying to come up with anything you can say to distract from all the TORY scandals that are coming to light practically every day.

Or you could just go back to polishing your jackboots and pressing your brown shirts? lol

If you think your ignorant posts insulting me because I support the right of people to use plant based FREE medications are going to hurt me or deter me, think again. I find it rather amusing and it just opens another opportunity to point out how ridiculously authoritarian and paternalistic your party is. So go ahead and insult and personal attack to your hearts content, you only show everybody that you have no real reason to justify your parties fascism, and that you only want to distract everyone from your parties obvious corruption.

Please keep bringing up the pot issue so that I can put your parties idiocy on display for all to see. I prefer when someone else brings it up so that I can reply to the post and be somewhat on topic.

Dude, stay on topic or start another pot thread.

[White Doors]

I got a better idea why don't you give your reasons why 6 months mandatory minimums are appropriate for growing a single cannabis plant?

Or you could just go back to trying to come up with anything you can say to distract from all the TORY scandals that are coming to light practically every day.

Or you could just go back to polishing your jackboots and pressing your brown shirts? lol

If you think your ignorant posts insulting me because I support the right of people to use plant based FREE medications are going to hurt me or deter me, think again. I find it rather amusing and it just opens another opportunity to point out how ridiculously authoritarian and paternalistic your party is. So go ahead and insult and personal attack to your hearts content, you only show everybody that you have no real reason to justify your parties fascism, and that you only want to distract everyone from your parties obvious corruption.

Please keep bringing up the pot issue so that I can put your parties idiocy on display for all to see. I prefer when someone else brings it up so that I can reply to the post and be somewhat on topic.

tsk, tsk

you forgot "apartheid" and "genocide".

btw, I do smoke pot occasionaly, your stereotype needs some work.

lol

[madmax]

Is every thread going to be hijacked as a thread for pot advocacy and criminalization/decriminalization.

This is very irritating :angry:

[DrGreenthumb]

Do you have a citation for that? Here's a summary of bill C-2. I don't see where it says you'll get a mandatory sentence for using or growing it, unless your grow-up has more than 500 plants.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...me=&no_ads=

1 to 2 year mandatory prisons sentences for the production, possession for the purposes of trafficking, trafficking, and importing/exporting; Length of sentences depend on "aggravating factors" such as a prior drug offence, if trafficking takes place in areas where there are young people or children, if health and safety of children, property, residential property or property of a third party is threatened; Sentences relating to possession, trafficking, importing/exporting, mostly depend on quantities however, mandatory sentences for production of even 1 marijuana plant calls for a minimum sentence of 6 months; And the maximum penalty for cannabis production would increase from 7 to 14 years imprisonment.

For more detailed information and a chart with the proposed mandatory minimum sentences, please visit www.CannabisFacts.ca/MadatoryMinimums.html. Thanks to "FrankDiscussion" for creating the CannabisFacts.ca website and covering Bill C-26.

* A one-year mandatory prison sentence will be imposed for dealing drugs such as marijuana when carried out for organized crime purposes, or when a weapon or violence is involved;

(From the website http://OrganizedCrime.ca:

"What Is Organized Crime? It is serious crime planned and carried out by a group of at least three people to benefit one or more members of the group.")

just so I'm not accused of plageurism here is a link that I copied and pasted this from

http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forums/u...;gonew=1#UNREAD

So if I grow one plant and give some to my wife and some to my brother, that would be considered organized crime purposes.

[jdobbin]

Is every thread going to be hijacked as a thread for pot advocacy and criminalization/decriminalization.

This is very irritating :angry:

Not to mention personal attacks rather than addressing anything to do with the original thread.

I agree with you that the raid is not an election maker. It will still be a while to see how it plays out. It certainly doesn't help that the RCMP make an arrest of a former Liberal party official in the same week. The result is a more cynical electorate.

I think a decidedly more threatening problem for the minority government is the economy. Food and fuel prices and downturns in our export market will make people take notice.

Still, if Elections Canada concludes that Tory election in and out spending rebates are disallowed, the Tories will have the uncomfortable position of being in violation of the electoral act and then the investigating commissioner will pass it on to the RCMP as it will then be a criminal case.

Edited April 18, 2008 by jdobbin

[sharkman]

So dobbin, if it's decided that in and out spending is improper, will the Liberals volunteer to return the 1.3 million they will be in violation of(as reported in National Post and others by now), or will they just quietly hope no one notices?

[DrGreenthumb]

Is every thread going to be hijacked as a thread for pot advocacy and criminalization/decriminalization.

This is very irritating :angry:

It is your own fault when you feel the need to reply to every one of my post with some personal attack about my pot use or advocasy. Not just you but every one of you conservatives who bring up my pot use every time i make a post. When i say something about conservative corruption and get a reply about "what I'm smoking", or other pothead dopehead slurs, it is you that are changing the subject to pot so you can distract people from the fact that the Conservatives are corrupt, cheaters and thieves.

[Wilber]

It is your own fault when you feel the need to reply to every one of my post with some personal attack about my pot use or advocasy. Not just you but every one of you conservatives who bring up my pot use every time i make a post. When i say something about conservative corruption and get a reply about "what I'm smoking", or other pothead dopehead slurs, it is you that are changing the subject to pot so you can distract people from the fact that the Conservatives are corrupt, cheaters and thieves.

Maybe it's because you are incapable of making a post on any subject without making pot the issue. How can you be offended when it gets thrown back in your face?

[mikedavid00]

Second, as "crimes" go and assuming it is one, this is just not serious.

And that's why the mainstreme public don't really know or care what's going on.

Even the media (who aren't very politically savvy by nature) haven't blow up this story.

However, why is it that already there are 15 pages of posts and politically savvy people have given great attention to this issue. Why is this issue deemed as 'very serious' to many people including a conservative like myself?

It's like the animals detecting the storm before it arrives. Those most sensative see the red flags ahead of time.

Look at what happened: A federal party attempts to bend laws in ill contempt to win an election. The opposition appointed election group then orders a police raid and leaks info to the media in order to smear the image of the elected party. Judges, the highest police force, and elite beurocrats are involved.

How is the above tale supposed to sit well with anyone. This is a first for our country and there has been a progression towards this for many years in Canada.

Our country is a 'farce'. Now it's a getting a bit more serious and people are seeing red flags from very far away.

[scribblet]

The strategy of mud slinging is to win a war of attrittion. It lowers voter turnout and the goal is to have more of your voters turn out then the other party has turned off. The LPC has been very successful at slinging mud, taking things out of context to form a negative view of the CPC leader.

Not any different then what CPC strategist are doing with Dion

Possibly to take the heat of themselves over the latest charges today against Benoit Corbeil, aformer high-ranking member of the Quebec Liberal party who was implicated in the sponsorship scandal. I understand there's more to come.

[mikedavid00]

It was television ads attacking paul martin, and for about 3 seconds in tiny unreadable print at the end they put the local candidates name. That is the one i saw on CPAC anyway. A sneaky way to try and get around the spending limits imposed on all parties to ensure a fair election.

I still find this very troubling.

Very bothersome that such a major political party in the first world would do this. Harper obviously approved it and those involved should step down.

[HisSelf]

little overboard no?

I agree. Give him a majority, THEN he'll be a disaster.

[Cameron]

Why don't we wait until something has been proven first.

A REVOLUTIONARY CONCEPT as I'm reading this thread!

[scribblet]

Gee, I'll say quite a concept huh....

However, the deeper one digs, the smellier it gets, did I hear anyone say that Andre Thouin, whom we see removing thh box of papers is actually not an Elections Canada employee at all, but a private contractor hired by Elections Canada in October 2005. Why would Elections Canada use contractors to execute a search warrant? hmmm guess they could start blaming the leaks on him huh

I still haven't found the section of the Canada Elections Act (CEA) that sets out an election advertising spending limit for a political party, nor the section in the CEA that restricts the transfer of funds between a registered party, electoral districts and candidates.

Elections Canada, does set spending limits in accordance with the CEA, for all parties involved, but I don't believe there is a breakdown of how those limits can be spent. The only requirement is that limits not be exceeded.

So in that case, since the Canada Elections Act sets no limit on advertising expenses, they are out to lunch on accusations of advertising overspending.

[Wild Bill]

It was mentioned today on the Mike Duffy Live CTV politics show that 3 of the boxes seized in the raid contained files outlining the entire strategy of the Tory party in their lawsuit against Elections Canada. These documents fall under lawyer/client confidentiality and privilege.

For Elections Canada to now have these documents in their possession as a result of their raid will make their legal situation very, very interesting.

I think this raid is going to become great amusement in the days to come. Elections Canada may have made a very big mistake. I love it when bureaucrats get their come-uppance! They too often forget that the people through elected officials are actually in charge and not their hairy-assed desk-warming selves.

Also, the speed with which the Liberals were able to get cameras to cover the raid is proof in itself there was a leak. It would have been flatly impossible otherwise.

[jdobbin]

Also, the speed with which the Liberals were able to get cameras to cover the raid is proof in itself there was a leak. It would have been flatly impossible otherwise.

And why couldn't it have been the Tories? The claims that that Liberals were there ahead of Elections Canada and the RCMP are bogus. The only one claiming that is the right wing. The reason? The reason is that it would lay the blame for the media finding out squarely on Elections Canada or the RCMP.

If the media arrived after the raid was taking place, it is entirely possible and most likely plausible that the media found out from the furious clicking of Blackberry buttons to party members, family and others. It wouldn't have been a very hard secret to find out and since the Liberals are a block or so away, easy for them to get their is haste.

As for the client confidentiality claim, I find that fairly bogus as well. It would have to be shown that this was correspondence with the lawyer on every single page. Just who exactly in the party is making that claim?

[eyeball]

It was mentioned today on the Mike Duffy Live CTV politics show that 3 of the boxes seized in the raid contained files outlining the entire strategy of the Tory party in their lawsuit against Elections Canada. These documents fall under lawyer/client confidentiality and privilege.

For Elections Canada to now have these documents in their possession as a result of their raid will make their legal situation very, very interesting.

I think this raid is going to become great amusement in the days to come. Elections Canada may have made a very big mistake. I love it when bureaucrats get their come-uppance! They too often forget that the people through elected officials are actually in charge and not their hairy-assed desk-warming selves.

Yeah it'll be hilarious. Just like those cases when some big-time dealer walks because some small time clerk cocked-something up.

[Qwerty]

It was a clerical error I'm sure, very minor. The CPC has thousands upon thousands of donations to account for. They are still human beings at the end of the day, mistakes happen.

The CPC is in the middle of a huge lawsuit against Elections Canada, where you aware of that?

Perhaps they have an axe to grind with the CPC, hrmmm?

[mikedavid00]

It was mentioned today on the Mike Duffy Live CTV politics show that 3 of the boxes seized in the raid contained files outlining the entire strategy of the Tory party in their lawsuit against Elections Canada. These documents fall under lawyer/client confidentiality and privilege.

For Elections Canada to now have these documents in their possession as a result of their raid will make their legal situation very, very interesting.

Oh lord..

Wow.. i'm almost about to say this is a CRISIS situation in Canada.

This is bigger than adscam, bigger then petty political shanagans.. this is definately, very, very serious and very very telling of the country we're in right now..

These are very negative, very serious developments for our country.

I can't do anything but watch.

[jdobbin]

It was a clerical error I'm sure, very minor. The CPC has thousands upon thousands of donations to account for. They are still human beings at the end of the day, mistakes happen.

The CPC is in the middle of a huge lawsuit against Elections Canada, where you aware of that?

Perhaps they have an axe to grind with the CPC, hrmmm?

A judge signed a search warrant. Why are the Tories not focusing on that?