Obama's spiritual mentor says: God Damn America

[Leafless]

Sen. Barack Obama's pastor says blacks should not sing "God Bless America" but "God damn America."

What other nice people does Obama know?

This type of inflamatory language should not be part of any sermon.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1

[noahbody]

He should change his campaign slogan to: Once you have Barack, you never go back.

[sharkman]

I can not imagine how a pastor would get political at all, let alone that political in a sermon. As a Christian, God doesn't damn nations or people, He merely does not protect them from the consequences of their actions and decisions, whether they be good or bad.

For a minister of the Gospel to say things like that behind the pulpit, he too will suffer the outcomes of his words, as he has been no doubt doing for years. If you listen to him, he thinks white people are bad and black people good. He doesn't look at the heart anymore, only the skin.

[Shady]

Sen. Barack Obama's pastor says blacks should not sing "God Bless America" but "God damn America."

I guess they're free to leave whenever they want.

I thought the worst of it was the claim that AIDS was created by the government, as a way to exterminate the black population.

[Drea]

Well when you hitch your wagon to people who believe in invisible sky entities... someone is going to say something that others disagree with. It's the nature of religion -- to pit people against one another.

Perhaps he should run as an atheist -- how far do you think that'd get him in "Evangelical America"?

It's pathetic that the American populace demands that it's leaders follow some antiquated notion of a sky judge -- utterly pathetic becasue "Goddam" and "Godbless" both mean squat.

[sharkman]

Well when you hitch your wagon to people who believe in invisible sky entities... someone is going to say something that others disagree with. It's the nature of religion -- to pit people against one another.

Perhaps he should run as an atheist -- how far do you think that'd get him in "Evangelical America"?

It's pathetic that the American populace demands that it's leaders follow some antiquated notion of a sky judge -- utterly pathetic becasue "Goddam" and "Godbless" both mean squat.

You are missing the point. You can gain great insight into a person's character by whether they think God damns or God blesses, even if you don't believe in God.

[Shady]

Well when you hitch your wagon to people who believe in invisible sky entities... someone is going to say something that others disagree with. It's the nature of religion -- to pit people against one another.

Perhaps he should run as an atheist -- how far do you think that'd get him in "Evangelical America"?

It's pathetic that the American populace demands that it's leaders follow some antiquated notion of a sky judge -- utterly pathetic becasue "Goddam" and "Godbless" both mean squat.

I disagree. Someone can say something that others disagree with without being associated with any religion.

I also disagree with your term "Evangelical America". Evangelical's make up a small percentage of the American populace. And that populace doesn't demand their leaders follow some "antiquated notion of a sky judge." There's mayors, governor's, members of congress, and former President's and Vice Presidents who were in no-way thought of as religious individuals.

What I find more pathetic is antiquated sterotypes and agruments based on something other then reality. But you definitely have the right to believe whatever you want which makes you feel superior.

Kind of like religion in a way

[Drea]

If that is the case (all those non religious folks in leadership positions) why is it that a person cannot call himself an atheist and be accepted?

I bet a good many people who say they are believers are liars. I lie to when in circumstances that compel me to -- if I am at a religious client's and they bow their heads to pray over lunch - I bow my head too and look just like a believer. The client is none the wiser and I get to take his money! Win Win.

One small example of discrimination of atheists in the US: (don't have equivelant Canadian example, sorry)

Omaha council rejects street honoring atheist (MMOH)

I recommend you read the atheist forum... these people are great!

Edited March 15, 2008 by Drea

[Moonlight Graham]

This doesn't look good for Obama. He's trying to spin it, but he chose this pastor. This pastor married he & his wife. He obviously respects him a great deal, and faithfully attending his sermons on a weekly basis for many years doesn't rub off well on Obama.

However, you still have to seperate the men. Obama isn't this pastor, they are 2 different people. Obama doesn't say what this pastor does, but he does listen to & respect him. So you have to wonder deep down how much of this type of stuff does Obama believe. And even if he doesn't believe it, having things like this preached to you over and over is going to seep in. That is just human nature.

A shame. I like Obama. But I know he isn't 100% what he seems. He's a damn smooth politician with a great way with words. I just wonder how much of him is sincere and how much is political B.S.

[Guest American Woman]

Perhaps he should run as an atheist -- how far do you think that'd get him in "Evangelical America"?

It's pathetic that the American populace demands that it's leaders follow some antiquated notion of a sky judge -- utterly pathetic becasue "Goddam" and "Godbless" both mean squat.

What's pathetic is you referring to the States as "Evangelical America," but here's a fact-- Americans have every right to "demand" whatever characteristic(s) we desire in our leader.

But to spare you from repeating such an outrageous inaccuracy, here's another fact: 8% of the population are evangelicals (2007)

Edited March 15, 2008 by American Woman

[Drea]

Chicken to click on the link and see what sane Americans think AW?

See how vilified atheists are and why they are banding together in the face of growing US evangelicalism.

No worries. Isis is on your side too. (what? you don't beleive in Isis? How atheist of you!)

[Guest American Woman]

Chicken to click on the link and see what sane Americans think AW?

See how vilified atheists are and why they are banding together in the face of growing US evangelicalism.

No worries. Isis is on your side too. (what? you don't beleive in Isis? How atheist of you!)

What I believe is only 8% of the population are evangelicals, because unlike your ludicrous reference to Evangelical America, that's a fact.

[Drea]

What I believe is only 8% of the population are evangelicals, because unlike your ludicrous reference to Evangelical America, that's a fact.

What you "believe" is "fact".

How do you know -- you psychic? Oh wait, your god says those who reads others minds are "evil" -- you're not "evil" are you?

All believers are evangelical. All of them think that "their" particular notion is the correct one. All of them can't be correct can they? So how do you know you've picked the "correct" one? Does it not worry you that you (and your children) could be headed to a burning pit for choosing wrong?

Edited March 15, 2008 by Drea

[Guest American Woman]

What you "believe" is "fact".

How do you know -- you psychic?

Ummm. No. I know how to read the material in the link I posted. Don't you?

[Drea]

Did you not read what you typed?

What I believe is only 8% of the population are evangelicals...that's a fact.

Only one question really matters -- What if you are wrong?

Edited March 15, 2008 by Drea

[gc1765]

Obama has strongly condemned those statements, so to try and criticize him for this is just weak. In fact, it goes to show how little dirt there is on Obama if this is the best that anyone can drag up...

[scribblet]

She is correct, according to this it is less than 8% http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm so using the term 'evangelical America' is just plain wrong. A much higher percentage has a belief system, but not evangelical, that is only a small part. Just because you want to believe most of the U.S. is evangelical, doesn't make it so.

"...evangelicals remain just 7% of the adult population. That number has not changed since the Barna Group began measuring the size of the evangelical public in 1994"

[sharkman]

Obama has strongly condemned those statements, so to try and criticize him for this is just weak. In fact, it goes to show how little dirt there is on Obama if this is the best that anyone can drag up...

If he strongly condemns the statements made by his pastor, why would he continue to go to his church for 20 years? This is political bs by Obama's camp. And he only came out to "strongly condemn" the statements after several days of media pressure.

[guyser]

If he strongly condemns the statements made by his pastor, why would he continue to go to his church for 20 years? This is political bs by Obama's camp. And he only came out to "strongly condemn" the statements after several days of media pressure.

I watched him last night on CNN and he said that the Pastor had not used those words when he was in the pews on Sunday.

He clearly pointed out he has removed all association from that church and that Pastor.

[Carinthia]

The gist of the message that Wright sermonizes is somewhat true, albeit his delivery leaves a lot to be desired. Too provactive, far too angry and laced with fanatical "hell and damnation". Obama's ideology is not really much different. Wright's sermon has just been been sifted and shaped by Obama (and Clinton to a degree) and delivered in a way that the masses can accepted as a reasonable need for "change".

I think most of us have people in our lives who we admire but who's ideology is expressed in a way in which their own anger and bitterness is all mixed in, but we "get it". Sift out the emotional aspect of where they may be coming from and their basic ideology is not much different than our own.

Edited March 15, 2008 by Carinthia

[Regulus de Leo]

I watched him last night on CNN and he said that the Pastor had not used those words when he was in the pews on Sunday.

He clearly pointed out he has removed all association from that church and that Pastor.

No he hasn't. He'd heard reports about the Pastor months ago (he admitted) and yet he had him as an advisor on his campaign. This is a man he sees an an 'uncle' who married him, baptized his kids and gave him the name of his book The Audacity of Hope ( I guess 'God Damn America' wasn't accepted by the publisher).

[Guest American Woman]

I watched him last night on CNN and he said that the Pastor had not used those words when he was in the pews on Sunday.

He clearly pointed out he has removed all association from that church and that Pastor.

I'm not sure what difference it makes if Obama actually attended church on the Sundays the sermons in question were delivered. As far as removing associations from that church and pastor, he hasn't left the church and while the pastor is no longer part of his campaign team, he still likens him to an uncle. Obama told MSNBC that he would not repudiate Wright as a man, describing him as "like an uncle" who says something that he disagrees with and must speak out against. link

He actually defended his relationship with Wright. And he's given sizable donations to the church.

Obama gave $22,500 to the church in 2006, according to his income tax records. link That's a pretty sizable donation coming from someone who, in the pastor's words, "ain't rich."

Furthermore, he knew of the pastor's words when he began campaigning: Obama said he wasn't aware of Wright's incendiary comments until he began running for president early last year. "If I had heard any of these statements, I probably would have walked up and I probably would have told Reverend Wright that they were wrong,'' Obama, 46, told CNN.

When a would-be POTUS gets his spiritual guidance from someone who said the government "lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color," I think people will find it to be a concern.

Edited March 15, 2008 by American Woman

[Carinthia]

I'm not sure what difference it makes if Obama actually attended church on the Sundays the sermons in question were delivered. As far as removing associations from that church and pastor, he hasn't left the church and while the pastor is no longer part of his campaign team, he still likens him to an uncle.

I don't believe he holds the same beliefs as the pastor, at least not in the way they were delivered by the pastor. I would be more concerned if he just ditched his old friend of many years, as so many other disengenuous politicians do, merely on the demand of the press. He is loyal, has given his testaments as to not agreeing and is remaining a friend to someone he obviously loves. That bodes well with me. C'mon, Obama's an intelligent academic. Do you really think he believes that aids was spread to rid the world of black people?

Edited March 15, 2008 by Carinthia

[Guest American Woman]

I don't believe he holds the same beliefs as the pastor, at least not in the way they were delivered by the pastor. I would be more concerned if he just ditched his old friend of many years, as so many other disengenuous politicians do, merely on the demand of the press. He is loyal, has given his testaments as to not agreeing and is remaining a friend to someone he obviously loves. That bodes well with me. C'mon, Obama's an intelligent academic. Do you really think he believes that aids was spread to rid the world of black people?

I think, under the circumstances, having Rev. Wright as part of his political campaign showed very poor judgement on Obama's part. That he would make a poor decision like this regarding his choice of African American Religious Leadership Committee doesn't bode well for him since he'd be making many appointments as POTUS. And repeating Obama's response: "If I had heard any of these statements, I probably would have walked up and I probably would have told Reverend Wright that they were wrong."

First of all, I find it extremely difficult to believe that he didn't know. Secondly, he "probably" would have told him he was wrong?

I think it will make a difference to some people, and I think it's just as justified as those who were critical of Bush for his close 'spiritual' ties to fundamentalist Christians. I can't see how it wouldn't be hypocritical to see it any other way.

[Regulus de Leo]

Obama's biggest problem is this: His claim to power is based on his judgment because he lacks experience. This calls into question his judgment. Can he judge character? Can he appoint people to advise him who are competent and can give good advice. He already had Wright as an advisor on his campaign. This incident undermines his quest for the Presidency considerably.