The waterboarding poll

bush_cheney2004 · March 10, 2008

The only way I'll be leaving is if you whiners who can't bear the truth are able to drum up a big enough hit squad to convince the mods that I'm hurting your feelings. I won't be changing my name and I won't be leaving of my own choice.

You're just another member like the rest of us....nothing special. If our host decides to boot you, no big deal. Won't make one iota of difference to the "truth", whatever the hell that means.

capricorn · March 10, 2008

You're just another member like the rest of us....nothing special.

And I thought I was making a difference. :huh:

Oh well, life goes on.

UShaditComing · March 10, 2008

And I thought I was making a difference.
Oh well, life goes on.

Pay no attention to him, he's just cranky from the licking he got today.

bush_cheney2004 · March 10, 2008

Pay no attention to him, he's just cranky from the licking he got today.

A true legend in your own mind...somebody is worried about getting banned. Only time will tell if you are voted off the island.

UShaditComing · March 10, 2008

A true legend in your own mind...somebody is worried about getting banned. Only time will tell if you are voted off the island.

Actually I am a legend on the political forums and a legend in my own time. I usually end up owning a forum before too long. I already own you! Do you like my new signature American? The colour is to signify blood spilled by American bombs in many countries throughout the world.

Edited March 10, 2008 by UShaditComing

bush_cheney2004 · March 10, 2008

Actually I am a legend on the political forums and a legend in my own time. I usually end up owning a forum before too long. I already own you! Do you like my new signature American? The colour is to signify blood spilled by American bombs in many countries throughout the world.

I love it..here's my version:

No Americans have been killed over here since Americans started killing them over there.

jbg · March 10, 2008

Isn't waterboarding as to waterskiing as snowboarding is to snow skiing?

capricorn · March 10, 2008

Pay no attention to him, he's just cranky from the licking he got today.

Actually, I read all B_C's posts, whether or not he's cranky. I like his directness and sense of humour. And frankly, I also read your posts because I find you odd and an interesting diversion.

About the waterboarding poll, I voted that the procedure is not illegal and indeed acceptable. Better to subject enemies to waterboarding to extract valuable and life-saving information than to kill them and get nothing.

rover1 · March 10, 2008

Golly! It seems like a pretty straightforward question. I don't really understand why people feel that they have to insult one another. Why not try just answering the question, and giving reasons for your position.

I feel that waterboarding is clearly torture and that civilised countries ought not to use it. Mr John McCain the American candidate for the presidency said this yesterday, and I agree with him.

Some may feel that waterboarding is not torture, and is therefore ok, if so they ought to tell us why they think so.

Others may feel that it is torture, but that it is justified in the circumstances. They should furnish reasons, or explain their position as well.

There may be other positions that people wish to take. It would be interesting to hear them.

Edited March 10, 2008 by rover1

GostHacked · March 10, 2008

I love it..here's my version:
No Americans have been killed over here since Americans started killing them over there.

Well not yet....... and another attack will come. And when it does, you will change your tune.

I have a rock that will protect you from bears as well.

I do not support waterboarding. If this is considered legal, then screw it, open up all the avenues for torture. Rip out fingernails, hang a person by the balls for an hour. Cut off a finger every hour untill the person speaks. Rape should be included as well. Hell why not take notes on Abu-Ghraib and call that the normal procedures.

Desperate measures like torture give desperate results. Under torture people will tell you anything you want to hear, just to stop the torture.

What we all should do here is actually experience waterboarding. For I'd say 30 mins to an hour. Only then will any of you really decide if it is a feasible method of interrogation.

Any of you willing to try it? Be careful of how you answer!

Drea · March 10, 2008

The USA, continues to win that race to the bottom...

Bottom line: Not only do waterboarding and the other types of torture currently being debated put us* in company with the most vile regimes of the past half-century; they're also designed specifically to generate a (usually false) confession, not to obtain genuinely actionable intel. This isn't a matter of sacrificing moral values to keep us safe; it's sacrificing moral values for no purpose whatsoever.

what is waterboarding

If I were tortured in this manner (or any other manner) I would confess to whatever they were asking me. As would most people. So the "information" that is gleaned by doing this is all bullshit. If I were asked, under torture, did you fly to the moon??? YES YES I DID!

For a description of how it works: Waterboarding

Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing a person on their back with the head inclined downward (the Trendelenburg position), and pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages.[1] Through forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences the process of drowning and is made to believe that death is imminent.[2] In contrast to merely submerging the head face-forward, waterboarding almost immediately elicits the gag reflex.[3] Although waterboarding does not always cause lasting physical damage, it carries the risks of extreme pain, damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation, injuries (including broken bones) due to struggling against restraints, and even death.[4] The psychological effects on victims of waterboarding can last for years after the procedure.[5]

White Doors · March 10, 2008

Golly! It seems like a pretty straightforward question. I don't really understand why people feel that they have to insult one another. Why not try just answering the question, and giving reasons for your position.
I feel that waterboarding is clearly torture and that civilised countries ought not to use it. Mr John McCain the American candidate for the presidency said this yesterday, and I agree with him.

Some may feel that waterboarding is not torture, and is therefore ok, if so they ought to tell us why they think so.

Others may feel that it is torture, but that it is justified in the circumstances. They should furnish reasons, or explain their position as well.

There may be other positions that people wish to take. It would be interesting to hear them.

Would it not behoove to give your reasons saying why you think it is toruture before you demand same of others?

DrGreenthumb · March 10, 2008

Would it not behoove to give your reasons saying why you think it is toruture before you demand same of others?

I don't think so. It is so blatantly obvious.

I would not be expected to give reasons why a german sheppard is a dog, anyone can tell by looking at it that it is what it is.

M.Dancer · March 10, 2008

I don't think so. It is so blatantly obvious.
I would not be expected to give reasons why a german sheppard is a dog, anyone can tell by looking at it that it is what it is.

They look like Alsatians to me...

Shady · March 10, 2008

Would it not behoove to give your reasons saying why you think it is toruture before you demand same of others?

They don't find it necessary to back up any of their arguments. I'm still waiting for an answer from DrGreenthumb on all the "precious" freedoms that have slipped away since Harper took office. So far, all he's been able to come up with is some delusional idea that we all had the freedom to grow and smoke marijuana pre-2006. And that someone who is convicted of violent crimes now serves a minimum amount of time in jail, is another freedom we've lost.

:blink:

I'm also waiting for Trex is tell us which countries he thinks are so-called dictatorships. He's been pretty silent on that point since I shut him up about it.

:lol:

bush_cheney2004 · March 10, 2008

Well not yet....... and another attack will come. And when it does, you will change your tune.
I have a rock that will protect you from bears as well.

I do not have any concerns about "bears"...use to worry about BEAR-Ds (Tu-95)....but not anymore.

I do not support waterboarding. If this is considered legal, then screw it, open up all the avenues for torture. Rip out fingernails, hang a person by the balls for an hour. Cut off a finger every hour untill the person speaks. Rape should be included as well. Hell why not take notes on Abu-Ghraib and call that the normal procedures.

Your lack of support is noted, but irrelevant, as you (or me) are in no position to have any meaningful impact on such policies.

What we all should do here is actually experience waterboarding. For I'd say 30 mins to an hour. Only then will any of you really decide if it is a feasible method of interrogation.
Any of you willing to try it? Be careful of how you answer!

Yes, it would be consistent with POW/SEARS training received in the military. Please make the arrangements at once!

White Doors · March 10, 2008

They don't find it necessary to back up any of their arguments. I'm still waiting for an answer from DrGreenthumb on all the "precious" freedoms that have slipped away since Harper took office. So far, all he's been able to come up with is some delusional idea that we all had the freedom to grow and smoke marijuana pre-2006. And that someone who is convicted of violent crimes now serves a minimum amount of time in jail, is another freedom we've lost.

I'm also waiting for Trex is tell us which countries he thinks are so-called dictatorships. He's been pretty silent on that point since I shut him up about it.

lol, I have noticed that too.

they run away like rats do when you turn a light on when you ask for proof of their silly diatribes.

Quite funny actually.

Shady · March 10, 2008

Actually I am a legend on the political forums and a legend in my own time. I usually end up owning a forum before too long. I already own you! Do you like my new signature American? The colour is to signify blood spilled by American bombs in many countries throughout the world.

You know when a troll is in need of attention when they change their signature, and make sure to let everyone know about it. Too funny. :lol:

If I were tortured in this manner (or any other manner) I would confess to whatever they were asking me. As would most people. So the "information" that is gleaned by doing this is all bullshit. If I were asked, under torture, did you fly to the moon??? YES YES I DID!

Are you saying waterboarding doesn't work? I bet it would take interrogators 2 whole seconds to get your PIN number.

jdobbin · March 10, 2008

Are you saying waterboarding doesn't work? I bet it would take interrogators 2 whole seconds to get your PIN number.

According to some experts, it also leads to false confessions to make the torture stop.

I'm sure with little effort, they could get some of the people here in support of torture to admit they planned September 11.

Edited March 10, 2008 by jdobbin

bush_cheney2004 · March 10, 2008

Are you saying waterboarding doesn't work? I bet it would take interrogators 2 whole seconds to get your PIN number.

Touche :lol:

M.Dancer · March 10, 2008

According to some experts, it also leads to false confessions to make the torture stop.

Somehow I doubt it is used for confessions...

jdobbin · March 10, 2008

Quite funny actually.

Do you think that torture could get a confession from someone who was actually innocent?

jdobbin · March 10, 2008

If I were tortured in this manner (or any other manner) I would confess to whatever they were asking me. As would most people. So the "information" that is gleaned by doing this is all bullshit. If I were asked, under torture, did you fly to the moon??? YES YES I DID!

There is a tendency to get false data or leads from torture. We are often told that it is only done when time is of the the essence. However, it seems counterproductive to chase false leads from someone who admits to whatever they think will make the torture end even if it is the wrong info.

AngusThermopyle · March 10, 2008

Very very silly poll. Of course its torture. So what? Do you really think its comparable to having body parts removed or the flesh stripped from you with an acetylene torch? How about a visit to all your bodies joints by Mr. Black and Decker? Or perhaps the removal of your eyes with a knife point sounds more appealing.

It doesn't happen often but in this case I have to say that BC makes a lot of sense and is putting the prat known as ushadit...blah blah blah firmly in the fools position.

Given the choice of causing temporary distress to some scum bag or letting multiple innocents be killed or maimed...well the scum bag can just get his speedo ready for some water sports.

It would be nice if the outraged and feeble minded would show a little concern for their own before supporting terrorists and murderers bent on the destruction of their own society.

Shady · March 10, 2008

According to some experts, it also leads to false confessions to make the torture stop.
I'm sure with little effort, they could get some of the people here in support of torture to admit they planned September 11.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but there are numerous ways to substantiate a person's confessions. Interrogators will have access to a terrorists background, and all the inelligence assocated with him. Usually, with any interrogation, you begin asking questions you already know the answers to, in order to determine the validity of the information you're gathering.

It's not just a matter of waterboarding a suspect while asking questions without any purpose or strategy. That's a narrative people create in order to support their false premise related to waterboarding. It's incorrect.