Nearly 3 million Americans in Jail

[eyeball]

And please put the molesters in general population. None of this protecting the rapists for another 10 years behind bars.

This will lower crime rates.

No it won't, it'll only result in more brutal criminals.

[Simon Did It !]

No it won't, it'll only result in more brutal criminals.

In your view world maybe.

Just build more prisons and get them all off the street.

Next on the list, the Canadian Liberal Judges being put into a vote system. No more appointments that day and age is over with.

Canadian people should be able to vote in their own judges.

[guyser]

Canadian people should be able to vote in their own judges.

Nope.

If so, Judges will adjudicate what makes ignorant people happy instead of the law.

[jbg]

Hmmmm. If the crime rates are at their "lowest since the 70's" during the same time the number of those incarcerated has reached an all time high, one has to wonder who's in jail? One would think since there are more people in jail, there would be more people committing crimes.

Better policing techniques, such as NYC's COMPSAT and similar plans in effect elsewhere do lead to more arrests and convictions. And the greater certainty of arrest and jail drives down crime rates.

[bush_cheney2004]

Going unmentioned seems to be the 25% illegal immigrants in US prisons/jails. That includes illegals from Canada and Mexico.

[Guest American Woman]

Going unmentioned seems to be the 25% illegal immigrants in US prisons/jails. That includes illegals from Canada and Mexico.

About time someone mentioned that pesky illegal Canadian immigration problem we've been trying so hard to deal with here in the U.S.

But seriously, if our illegal immigration population is so high as to skew our prison numbers, I'd say that doesn't exactly do anything to shed our country in a better light.

But even according to FAIR, the illegal prison population is just a bit more than 4.54% of the total.

Furthermore, in California, which has a high illegal Mexican population, illegals are less likely to be incarcerated: Countering a widespread belief, a new report shows California's foreign-born population -- including illegal immigrants -- makes up only a sliver of the state's population of inmates. The report released Monday by the Public Policy Institute of California also suggests that the foreign-born population, which makes up more than a third of the state's adults, plays a disproportionately smaller role in serious crime.

Edited March 2, 2008 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

....But seriously, if our illegal immigration population is so high as to skew our prison numbers, I'd say that doesn't exactly do anything to shed our country in a better light.

But even according to FAIR, the illegal prison population is just a bit more than 4.54% of the total...

The FAIR figures do not jibe with Dept. of Justice or California experience:

As Investors Business Daily reported in March 2005:

"The U.S. Justice Department estimated that 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time nationally in 2003. Of those, 108,000 were in California. Some estimates show illegals now make up half of California's prison population, creating a massive criminal subculture that strains state budgets and creates a nightmare for local police forces."

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/200...27/114208.shtml

A claim of "4.54%" is not credible. Furthermore, that any portion of the American prison population is inflated by illegals has become taboo by those championing the cause of "undocumented workers". Mexican and Canadian illegals are a fact, and when they are arrested, detained, or convicted for crimes, the count goes up if they are not deported.

[Guest American Woman]

The FAIR figures do not jibe with Dept. of Justice or California experience:

As Investors Business Daily reported in March 2005:

"The U.S. Justice Department estimated that 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time nationally in 2003. Of those, 108,000 were in California. Some estimates show illegals now make up half of California's prison population, creating a massive criminal subculture that strains state budgets and creates a nightmare for local police forces."

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/200...27/114208.shtml

A claim of "4.54%" is not credible. Furthermore, that any portion of the American prison population is inflated by illegals has become taboo by those championing the cause of "undocumented workers". Mexican and Canadian illegals are a fact, and when they are arrested, detained, or convicted for crimes, the count goes up if they are not deported.

Any nation's incarceration figures are affected by illegals.

Furthermore, the figures in your source are preceded with the terms "estimated" and "estimates."

But I repeat. If our illegal immigration problem is so huge as to skew our incarceration figures, that doesn't speak any better for our nation than the incarceration figures themselves. What other nation allows illegals to stay in such high numbers?

[bush_cheney2004]

What other nation allows illegals to stay in such high numbers?

Canada.....

http://are.berkeley.edu/APMP/pubs/agworkvi...nada111503.html

Edited March 3, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[Oleg Bach]

About time someone mentioned that pesky illegal Canadian immigration problem we've been trying so hard to deal with here in the U.S.

But seriously, if our illegal immigration population is so high as to skew our prison numbers, I'd say that doesn't exactly do anything to shed our country in a better light.

But even according to FAIR, the illegal prison population is just a bit more than 4.54% of the total.

Furthermore, in California, which has a high illegal Mexican population, illegals are less likely to be incarcerated: Countering a widespread belief, a new report shows California's foreign-born population -- including illegal immigrants -- makes up only a sliver of the state's population of inmates. The report released Monday by the Public Policy Institute of California also suggests that the foreign-born population, which makes up more than a third of the state's adults, plays a disproportionately smaller role in serious crime.

Years ago I had some unpaid fines...I avoided the authorities for over 5 years then I was stopped in a routine traffic check..well off to the slammer I went..to the now closed down dungeon section of the old Don Jail in Toronto...what a place..cells like coffins - rats in my shoes..but I did notice one thing after about a week..that all the good people were locked up for their own protection from a vicious and corrupt society..The old Scottish jailers took good care of us young men dressed in white...now those were the good old days wnen if you went into wardship of her Majesty the Queen - she took care of the young and vibrant stock..not now...I heard that todays city jails are full of crazy black misfits that are the product of failed social policies - that they are hell holes--only the poor employ jail guards these days. What ever happened to the days where we actually had correctional facilities? Where the powers that be corrected way ward young men so as not to lose a vital human resourse? Jails are now buisness and the privatization of them is a sin.

[Guest American Woman]

QUOTE=American Woman: What other nation allows illegals to stay in such high numbers?

Canada.....

http://are.berkeley.edu/APMP/pubs/agworkvi...nada111503.html

!!!!

According to your link: Although the census doesn't track the number of undocumented people living in Canada, industry studies and experts put the figure at somewhere between 100,000 to 200,000.

And according to this link: The number of illegal immigrants in the United States has grown to as many as 12 million, and they now account for about one in every 20 workers, a new estimate says.

[bush_cheney2004]

!!!!

According to your link: Although the census doesn't track the number of undocumented people living in Canada, industry studies and experts put the figure at somewhere between 100,000 to 200,000.

The same experts put Canada's population at about 36,000,000. My link was from 2003. There be plenty 'o illegals in Canada, many of whom just want to take the next step to the promised land.

Edited March 3, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[Shakeyhands]

Going unmentioned seems to be the 25% illegal immigrants in US prisons/jails. That includes illegals from Canada and Mexico.

WOW... would love to see the back up on this one...

[Guest American Woman]

The same experts put Canada's population at about 36,000,000. My link was from 2003. There be plenty 'o illegals in Canada, many of whom just want to take the next step to the promised land.

If you say so. And apparently you're the only one who does say so, since you sure haven't cited any sources to back you up.

still laughing.

[Rue]

I have read in the past that Canada pays $83,000 per person yearly for a peron to be in jail. I don't know how many we have in jail but it sound like we are going to have alot more and the government will have to build more prisons to hold them. I think the government should keep the most dangerous people in jail and have the rest, treated with a brace on their leg and allow to work but must to restricted to their homes the rest of the time until their sentence has been paid.

You can actually find out the above by going to Stats Can which keeps statistics on crime in detail.

I am not sure about the $83,000 per year. Sounds a bit high.

Anyways, the point is the vast majority of people in Canadian jails are aboriginal.

Now here is an interesting stat. The vast majority of people being arrested and sentenced from crime, by far are black men, and much higher then any other group of people.

What appears to be happening is when a black man is arrested (and the stats show huge differences in arrest rates) they are less likely to have sufficient money to fight their charges so that accept a minor sentence for time they have already served waiting for their trial rather then staying in jail for months and years later trying to fight the charge.

What we also know is the vast majority of aboriginals in prison are arrested for vagrancy and being drunk but contrary to popular belief are not arrested for violent crimes.

So who is the typical person in jail. Well the stats show its the same here as it is in the United States-a male, unemployed with a drug or drinking problem and/or mental illness. That is the vast majority of people in prison. people with minor offences.

It is not a prison full of the people we think it is. The rapists, the murderers, the big time drug pushers, the pedophiles, the extremely violent criminals are not remaining in prison even if they are convicted because they are more likely to fight their charges and get off on a technicality or constitutional arguement.

Both countries have a huge back-log of trials, too few prisons and have deliberate policies to early release violent criminals and sex offenders because of lack of prison space.

I think what you are going to see in the next ten years is a push to alternative technology to prison, namely more improved bracelette systems to track people. There are several large firms already working on implants that can be placed under the skin to track convicts and others working on technology to be implanted in the brain to act like a pacifier to control the sex urges or anger of certain offenders.

Its actually scary what is being researched and what methods society may end up using to control the movement of convicts.

Why? Because the same technology of course we have no problems using or want to use on violent offenders could also be used on innocent people for political reasons.

I can tell you this. The average person convicted gets under 5 years even for a repeat offence and for every day served automatically is given one day off, then is given another day off for every say served if while in prison they are not charged with anything. They only serve a third of their actual sentence and most times also subtracted from that is time already served and more often then not, their sentences are served concurrently not seperately if they are convicted of more then l offence.

Drunken driving also kills more then gang wars.

[Rue]

I have read in the past that Canada pays $83,000 per person yearly for a peron to be in jail. I don't know how many we have in jail but it sound like we are going to have alot more and the government will have to build more prisons to hold them. I think the government should keep the most dangerous people in jail and have the rest, treated with a brace on their leg and allow to work but must to restricted to their homes the rest of the time until their sentence has been paid.

You can actually find out the above by going to Stats Can which keeps statistics on crime in detail.

I am not sure about the $83,000 per year. Sounds a bit high.

Anyways, the point is the vast majority of people in Canadian jails are aboriginal.

Now here is an interesting stat. The vast majority of people being arrested and sentenced from crime, by far are black men, and much higher then any other group of people.

What appears to be happening is when a black man is arrested (and the stats show huge differences in arrest rates) they are less likely to have sufficient money to fight their charges so that accept a minor sentence for time they have already served waiting for their trial rather then staying in jail for months and years later trying to fight the charge.

What we also know is the vast majority of aboriginals in prison are arrested for vagrancy and being drunk but contrary to popular belief are not arrested for violent crimes.

So who is the typical person in jail. Well the stats show its the same here as it is in the United States-a male, unemployed with a drug or drinking problem and/or mental illness. That is the vast majority of people in prison. people with minor offences.

It is not a prison full of the people we think it is. The rapists, the murderers, the big time drug pushers, the pedophiles, the extremely violent criminals are not remaining in prison even if they are convicted because they are more likely to fight their charges and get off on a technicality or constitutional arguement.

Both countries have a huge back-log of trials, too few prisons and have deliberate policies to early release violent criminals and sex offenders because of lack of prison space.

I think what you are going to see in the next ten years is a push to alternative technology to prison, namely more improved bracelette systems to track people. There are several large firms already working on implants that can be placed under the skin to track convicts and others working on technology to be implanted in the brain to act like a pacifier to control the sex urges or anger of certain offenders.

Its actually scary what is being researched and what methods society may end up using to control the movement of convicts.

Why? Because the same technology of course we have no problems using or want to use on violent offenders could also be used on innocent people for political reasons.

I can tell you this. The average person convicted gets under 5 years even for a repeat offence and for every day served automatically is given one day off, then is given another day off for every say served if while in prison they are not charged with anything. They only serve a third of their actual sentence and most times also subtracted from that is time already served and more often then not, their sentences are served concurrently not seperately if they are convicted of more then l offence.

Drunken driving also kills more then gang wars.

[Rue]

I have read in the past that Canada pays $83,000 per person yearly for a peron to be in jail. I don't know how many we have in jail but it sound like we are going to have alot more and the government will have to build more prisons to hold them. I think the government should keep the most dangerous people in jail and have the rest, treated with a brace on their leg and allow to work but must to restricted to their homes the rest of the time until their sentence has been paid.

You can actually find out the above by going to Stats Can which keeps statistics on crime in detail.

I am not sure about the $83,000 per year. Sounds a bit high.

Anyways, the point is the vast majority of people in Canadian jails are aboriginal put per ratio, young black men.

Now here is an interesting stat. The vast majority of people being arrested and sentenced for crime, by far are black men, and much higher then any other group of people.

What appears to be happening is when a black man is arrested (and the stats show huge differences in arrest rates) they are less likely to have sufficient money to fight their charges so they accept a minor sentence for time they have already served waiting for their trial rather then staying in jail for months and years later trying to fight the charge. They are more likely to have served time while waiting because they are more likely not to be able to afford bail.

What we also know is the vast majority of aboriginals in prison are arrested for vagrancy and being drunk but contrary to popular belief are not arrested for violent crimes.

So who is the typical person in jail. Well the stats show its the same here as it is in the United States-a male, unemployed with a drug or drinking problem and/or mental illness. That is the vast majority of people in prison. are people convicted of minor offences.

It is not a prison full of the people we think it is. The rapists, the murderers, the big time drug pushers, the pedophiles, the extremely violent criminals are not remaining in prison even if they are convicted because they are more likely to fight their charges and get off on a technicality or constitutional arguement.

Both countries have a huge back-log of trials, too few prisons and have deliberate policies to early release violent criminals and sex offenders because of lack of prison space.

I think what you are going to see in the next ten years is a push to alternative technology to prison, namely more improved bracelette systems to track people. There are several large firms already working on implants that can be placed under the skin to track convicts and others working on technology to be implanted in the brain to act like a pacifier to control the sex urges or anger of certain offenders.

Its actually scary what is being researched and what methods society may end up using to control the movement of convicts.

Why? Because the same technology of course we have no problems using or want to use on violent offenders could also be used on innocent people for political reasons.

I can tell you this. The average person convicted gets under 5 years even for a repeat offence and for every day served automatically is given one day off, then is given another day off for every say served if while in prison they are not charged with anything. They only serve a third of their actual sentence and most times also subtracted from that is time already served and more often then not, their sentences are served concurrently not seperately if they are convicted of more then l offence.

Drunken driving also kills more then gang wars.

Edited March 3, 2008 by Rue

[Oleg Bach]

You can actually find out the above by going to Stats Can which keeps statistics on crime in detail.

I am not sure about the $83,000 per year. Sounds a bit high.

Anyways, the point is the vast majority of people in Canadian jails are aboriginal put per ratio, young black men.

Now here is an interesting stat. The vast majority of people being arrested and sentenced for crime, by far are black men, and much higher then any other group of people.

What appears to be happening is when a black man is arrested (and the stats show huge differences in arrest rates) they are less likely to have sufficient money to fight their charges so they accept a minor sentence for time they have already served waiting for their trial rather then staying in jail for months and years later trying to fight the charge.

What we also know is the vast majority of aboriginals in prison are arrested for vagrancy and being drunk but contrary to popular belief are not arrested for violent crimes.

So who is the typical person in jail. Well the stats show its the same here as it is in the United States-a male, unemployed with a drug or drinking problem and/or mental illness. That is the vast majority of people in prison. people with minor offences.

It is not a prison full of the people we think it is. The rapists, the murderers, the big time drug pushers, the pedophiles, the extremely violent criminals are not remaining in prison even if they are convicted because they are more likely to fight their charges and get off on a technicality or constitutional arguement.

Both countries have a huge back-log of trials, too few prisons and have deliberate policies to early release violent criminals and sex offenders because of lack of prison space.

I think what you are going to see in the next ten years is a push to alternative technology to prison, namely more improved bracelette systems to track people. There are several large firms already working on implants that can be placed under the skin to track convicts and others working on technology to be implanted in the brain to act like a pacifier to control the sex urges or anger of certain offenders.

Its actually scary what is being researched and what methods society may end up using to control the movement of convicts.

Why? Because the same technology of course we have no problems using or want to use on violent offenders could also be used on innocent people for political reasons.

I can tell you this. The average person convicted gets under 5 years even for a repeat offence and for every day served automatically is given one day off, then is given another day off for every say served if while in prison they are not charged with anything. They only serve a third of their actual sentence and most times also subtracted from that is time already served and more often then not, their sentences are served concurrently not seperately if they are convicted of more then l offence.

Drunken driving also kills more then gang wars.

It would be better to give the crimminal the 80 thousand bucks than to put him or her in jail. Give them the money and it will be a win win situation - He will either make something of himself or destroy himself..society wins either way. As for jails and the idea of privatized jails...well - there is big bucks in governmental contracts to maintain such institutions...Judges are instructed by those that appoint them to keep the jails full - how else are their nasty friends going to make a living other than being parasites on the poor and imprisoned..a prisoner said "the keeper of men is the lowest of the low"....as I mentioned earlier - with a bit of benevolence and love - we may if we try actually create correctional instututions that correct and assist..but that is not likely seeing there is no political or economic will to improve society...when things are bad..bad men go to jail and bad men make money through this mayhem. I would say that only about 10 percent of prisoners in the USA and Canada should be confined to protect society...the other 90% are economic and political prisoners.

[Shady]

Hey trex, I'm still waiting. Which countries do you consider so-called dictatorships?

[trex]

Hey trex, I'm still waiting. Which countries do you consider so-called dictatorships?

[Shady]

Hey trex, I guess you figured you'd spew that garbage without anyone challenging you? Grab a spine, and let us all know, which countries you consider so-called dictatorships.

[trex]

Hey trex, I guess you figured you'd spew that garbage without anyone challenging you? Grab a spine, and let us all know, which countries you consider so-called dictatorships.

[UShaditComing]

Rehabilitation is not in the US vocabulary because they can only think of punishing criminals and so they suffer the consequences by paying to keep a lot of people locked up. Listen closely to Harper and you will hear him spouting the same message, right down to bringing back capital punishment.

That rabid rightie we have for a PM is about 10 years behind the times because he is incapable of seeing that his principles which follow the US so closely are being rejected even by them because they are not working. And he wants to take Canada down the same path????? It would never occur to such a rabid rightie like Harper to look to very progressive European countries which have it figured out and are leaving the US behind in their dust when it comes to standards of living for all their citizens.

Edited March 7, 2008 by UShaditComing

[bush_cheney2004]

..... It would never occur to such a rabid rightie like Harper to look to very progressive European countries which have it figured out and are leaving the US behind in their dust when it comes to standards of living for all their citizens.

Of course....that why Canadian provinces send their citizens to the USA for health care.

[Topaz]

Of course....that why Canadian provinces send their citizens to the USA for health care.

Answer, because the US needs the money?? Depression coming.