Cadman allegedly Offered Money

[scribblet]

They wouldn't I suspect that it is all blown out of proportion.

It just doesn't make sense that they could offer such a policy, how would they pay for it, and what insurer would give it?

MPs do have life insurance policies and a pension plan, therefore if Cadman had voted with the Opposition and the Government had fallen...he would have been a private Citizen. If he had survived long enough he would have been entitled to a Pension but his wife would have received nothing.

If on the other hand he maintained the Government in power and was a sitting M.P. his wife would have been entitled, on his death, to the standard survivor's benefit. I suspect this is all it was.

[guyser]

Her accusation makes no sense. What is lacking is the 'ring of truth' to these allegations.

Why would the conservatives be so stupid as to make such an offer?

Harper has admitted to the party making some sort of offer.

Her accusation is backed up by her daughter. Dad told her the same thing too.

Why would an insurance company offer $1 million life insurance to a dying man? (they don't operate that way)

Irrelevant. Besides, the ins co didnt offer it.

But they easily could have underwritten it.

The hear tof the matter is an offer of influence was made.

[Shakeyhands]

It doesn't add up.

It sure doesn't... yet we still have Harper on tape saying a financial offer was made. Odd that.

[BubberMiley]

They wouldn't I suspect that it is all blown out of proportion.

It just doesn't make sense that they could offer such a policy, how would they pay for it, and what insurer would give it?

MPs do have life insurance policies and a pension plan, therefore if Cadman had voted with the Opposition and the Government had fallen...he would have been a private Citizen. If he had survived long enough he would have been entitled to a Pension but his wife would have received nothing.

If on the other hand he maintained the Government in power and was a sitting M.P. his wife would have been entitled, on his death, to the standard survivor's benefit. I suspect this is all it was.

That's exactly what it is. Cadman's wife would have lost the proceeds from his MP life insurance policy if he lost his MP job before he died. So calling for an election would have caused his family financial hardship. Harper said on the tape that those within his party felt this may be why he was voting with the Liberals, and that if they could make it up to him he might side with the CPC. He was sceptical that this plan would work but apparently allowed it to go ahead.

So it would likely have been a CPC-backed "life insurance plan" to replace the one he already had.

The only problem is that such an attempt to bribe is illegal.

[Keepitsimple]

I must admit - the Conservatives are lousy communicators. There were a lot of people making overtures to Cadman - including Liberals. Harper in his "interview" for the book said that he didn't5 know the details of what the armtwisters were going to diswcuss but think about it......if they did get creative and suggest some sort of insurance "top-up", Harper would still have to approve it....and you can bet your boots that he would not approve anything that was outside the bounds of ethical conduct. If people have learned one thing about Harper - it's that he's a straight shooter - look at how he's cut the ties to Mulroney because he might have done something wrong. This is another tempest in a teapot - a sertiousw allegation - bhut one that ultimately will not stand up to scruitiny. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I understand that the RCMP are already taking a peek at it.

[Wild Bill]

I must admit - the Conservatives are lousy communicators. There were a lot of people making overtures to Cadman - including Liberals. Harper in his "interview" for the book said that he didn't5 know the details of what the armtwisters were going to diswcuss but think about it......if they did get creative and suggest some sort of insurance "top-up", Harper would still have to approve it....and you can bet your boots that he would not approve anything that was outside the bounds of ethical conduct. If people have learned one thing about Harper - it's that he's a straight shooter - look at how he's cut the ties to Mulroney because he might have done something wrong. This is another tempest in a teapot - a sertiousw allegation - bhut one that ultimately will not stand up to scruitiny. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I understand that the RCMP are already taking a peek at it.

You know, if there's an investigation it should also cover whatever the LIBERALS offered to get him to side with them!

[Riverwind]

So it would likely have been a CPC-backed "life insurance plan" to replace the one he already had. The only problem is that such an attempt to bribe is illegal.

This is true in a strictly legal sense. However, if the issue for Cadman was financial then Cadman was already putting money ahead of prinicipals and this put the CPC at a distinct disadvantage. An offer by the CPC that leveled the playing field would have allowed Cadman to make a decision based on his prinicipals. Allowing people to vote based on principals rather than money is generally a good thing.

[BubberMiley]

This is true in a strictly legal sense.

Illegal activity is always illegal in a strictly legal sense.

[Regulus de Leo]

It sure doesn't... yet we still have Harper on tape saying a financial offer was made. Odd that.

He didn't actually say an offer was made. He said they could address his financial concerns which appear to have motivated his vote to prop up the Liberals. So much for Cadman being a 'man of principle' as we have so often been told.

What we DO know from that time period is that Belinda Stronach was offered a cabinet position in order to prop up the corrupt Liberals. Her vote we KNOW was bought.

Edited March 1, 2008 by Regulus de Leo

[jazzer]

What we DO know from that time period is that Belinda Stronach was offered a cabinet position in order to prop up the corrupt Liberals. Her vote we KNOW was bought.

Yeah, unlike straight shooter Harper who enticed Emerson and Fortier on election day. Give me a break.

[BubberMiley]

So much for Cadman being a 'man of principle' as we have so often been told.

Yes, how dare he not accept a bribe and instead vote along with the wishes of his constituents.

[jdobbin]

It doesn't add up.

It doesn't. I think the RCMP should look into it.

[jdobbin]

I suspect this is all it was.

But you don't know for sure.

You don't think someone should look into the accusation made by Dona Cadman and her daughter?

[scribblet]

MPs do have life insurance policies and a pension plan. if Cadman had voted with the Opposition and the Government had fallen...he would have been a private Citizen..If he had survived long enough he would have been entitled to a Pension but his wife would have received nothing.

If on the other hand he maintained the Government in power...He was a sitting M.P. h His wife would have been entitled, on his death, to the standard survivor's benefit. I suspect this is all it was.

I guess it's not any co-incidence that the CPC is reaching majority terrority LOL

[jdobbin]

You know, if there's an investigation it should also cover whatever the LIBERALS offered to get him to side with them!

Dona Cadman said there was nothing offered by Paul Martin. I'd welcome an investigation though.

[Riverwind]

Illegal activity is always illegal in a strictly legal sense.

It was illegal for Latimer to kill his daughter yet a jury of his peers felt he should only serve 1 year. Motivation is always an issue when determining scale of the transgression. I stand by my point that a 'bribe' that allowed someone to vote based on principals is different from a 'bribe' that offers enrichment.

We will never know why Cadman made the decision he made but we know that some members of the CPC did believe that he his primary concern was preserving his pension (a perfectly reasonable position for a man in his position - btw). I think it is silly to assume that the wishes of his constituents had anything to do with the final decision.

[gc1765]

MPs do have life insurance policies and a pension plan...

Anyone have a link as to what the life insurance policy for an MP is?

As for pensions, he would have been eligible to collect most of it after 6 years (I think he was an MP for 8 years?)...

[Wilber]

(

a) being the holder of a judicial office, or being a member of Parliament or of the legislature of a province, directly or indirectly, corruptly accepts, obtains, agrees to accept or attempts to obtain, for themselves or another person, any money, valuable consideration, office, place or employment in respect of anything done or omitted or to be done or omitted by them in their official capacity, or

( directly or indirectly, corruptly gives or offers to a person mentioned in paragraph (a), or to anyone for the benefit of that person, any money, valuable consideration, office, place or employment in respect of anything done or omitted or to be done or omitted by that person in their official capacity.

Except of course it is crossing the floor for the promise of a cabinet post with the pay and perks that go with it. Ain't politics wonderful. It's no wonder they get confused as to their legalities.

[Topaz]

This isn't the first time that the Cons have been accused of underhand tactics. Baird and the Ottawa mayor, finance minister paying his friend to write his speech for $122,000 when he should have only gotten $25,000, only to mention two of them. Dona Cadman said that Harper had talked to her on the day it broke in the news and she said he wanted to tell her about the press release???? The author of the book said the tape is what he had taped with Harper, there's no cutting on it. Today Moore in question period kept saying the same thing over and over again. You think they would have  come up with a better answer with having almost 3 years to prepare for this day. IF it can be proven that Harper knew about the offer, he could be kickout of politics for five years. Gee, who do you think would head the party...Prentice?  I have said  it before, the voters may get peeved enough with this government that they would vote the NDP a minority just to teach the Libs and the Cons they aren't the only party and they won't stand for dishonesty or the corruption.

[Alta4ever]

Lloyds will ensure anything based on its risk. Providing Cadman with a million-dollar life insurance policy might cost $999,999.99, but they would provide it.

Not true I have had Lloyd's of London turn down quotes from me when I was a broker.

[Alta4ever]

This all sounds like someone tring to sell a book!

[Wild Bill]

I have said it before, the voters may get peeved enough with this government that they would vote the NDP a minority just to teach the Libs and the Cons they aren't the only party and they won't stand for dishonesty or the corruption.

Not very likely! Most Canadians expect their politicians to be crooked, at least to some degree. The important thing is if they are crooked with things that involve mainly themselves or are trivial.

This is why Adscam hit the Liberals so hard. This wasn't a nomination bribe or fix, or rigging a contract for your brother-in-law's company. It was directly stealing our tax money! It was just too blatant and personal for so many Canadians.

The NDP will never achieve a federal government in Canada until they undergo a dramatic change in their philosophy. Right now most Canadians see them as the party of impractical dreams, with approaches that come from the heart and not the head. They can be a good conscience but never produce something that works. The NDP might come up with the most environmentally friendly colour to paint a bridge, but you'd be a fool to trust driving your car across if they had built it!

They are the party of the "artsies" and not the "engineers". We need "artsies". They teach us WHY and HOW to enjoy life and how to keep a human heart! Like your flaky aunt who everyone loves but they know better than to ask for help with math or science homework.

The federal NDP has only themselves to blame for this perception. It is the party of Marilyn Churley, not Mike Holmes of "Holmes on Homes". Many other labour parties in the western world modernized over the past few decades. Consider the success of Tony Blair in Britain. Or even provincial parties like in Manitoba! The federal NDP had their big chance to evolve in the 80's with their own Laxer Report and chose to turn their backs on it.

It's just human nature to accept a leader who's a bit of a crook as long as your garbage is always picked up and your road is plowed. The NDP just hasn't inspired confidence in the nuts and bolts of governing.

IMHO, of course.

[Topaz]

Not very likely! Most Canadians expect their politicians to be crooked, at least to some degree. The important thing is if they are crooked with things that involve mainly themselves or are trivial.

This is why Adscam hit the Liberals so hard. This wasn't a nomination bribe or fix, or rigging a contract for your brother-in-law's company. It was directly stealing our tax money! It was just too blatant and personal for so many Canadians.

The NDP will never achieve a federal government in Canada until they undergo a dramatic change in their philosophy. Right now most Canadians see them as the party of impractical dreams, with approaches that come from the heart and not the head. They can be a good conscience but never produce something that works. The NDP might come up with the most environmentally friendly colour to paint a bridge, but you'd be a fool to trust driving your car across if they had built it!

They are the party of the "artsies" and not the "engineers". We need "artsies". They teach us WHY and HOW to enjoy life and how to keep a human heart! Like your flaky aunt who everyone loves but they know better than to ask for help with math or science homework.

The federal NDP has only themselves to blame for this perception. It is the party of Marilyn Churley, not Mike Holmes of "Holmes on Homes". Many other labour parties in the western world modernized over the past few decades. Consider the success of Tony Blair in Britain. Or even provincial parties like in Manitoba! The federal NDP had their big chance to evolve in the 80's with their own Laxer Report and chose to turn their backs on it.

It's just human nature to accept a leader who's a bit of a crook as long as your garbage is always picked up and your road is plowed. The NDP just hasn't inspired confidence in the nuts and bolts of governing.

IMHO, of course.

Of only the voters and time will tell if the NDP will ever get to the PMO. I don't except the PMO being a little crooked and I don't think most voters feel that way. Right is right and wrong is wrong and thre are laws to live within ans if the PMO can't have his government toe the line they he should get the hell out of the PMO. We had enough of the Mulroney years of taking tax payers money for their own personal use!

[andyinottawa]

Hello all,

You seem to be missing the point its not about the life insurance policy its about an offer of any financial gain to change his vote and harper has admitted in that tape that he knew an offer was made , end of story , stop with the tory spin its illegal and thats the end of it what is sickening is Harper calling his widow a liar !

Harper can't squirm out of this one , he is done with

[Riverwind]

You seem to be missing the point its not about the life insurance policy its about an offer of any financial gain to change his vote

Please explain to me how offering someone a cabinet position with salary, perks and prestige in return for a vote is not a bribe under the definition of the criminal code.