Welfare for Polygamous unions!

[Muddy]

http://www.torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndG...834588-sun.html

Islamic leaders: Hundreds in GTA get extra welfare for polygamous unions

Mumtaz Ali: "Very liberal-minded country". (Sun Media Photo)

Hundreds of GTA Muslim men in polygamous marriages -- some with a harem of wives -- are receiving welfare and social benefits for each of their spouses, thanks to the city and province, Muslim leaders say.

Mumtaz Ali, president of the Canadian Society of Muslims, said wives in polygamous marriages are recognized as spouses under the Ontario Family Law Act, providing they were legally married under Muslim laws abroad.

"Polygamy is a regular part of life for many Muslims," Ali said yesterday. "Ontario recognizes religious marriages for Muslims and others."

[Leafless]

http://www.torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndG...834588-sun.html

Islamic leaders: Hundreds in GTA get extra welfare for polygamous unions

Mumtaz Ali: "Very liberal-minded country". (Sun Media Photo)

Hundreds of GTA Muslim men in polygamous marriages -- some with a harem of wives -- are receiving welfare and social benefits for each of their spouses, thanks to the city and province, Muslim leaders say.

Mumtaz Ali, president of the Canadian Society of Muslims, said wives in polygamous marriages are recognized as spouses under the Ontario Family Law Act, providing they were legally married under Muslim laws abroad.

"Polygamy is a regular part of life for many Muslims," Ali said yesterday. "Ontario recognizes religious marriages for Muslims and others."

Let me get this straight.

Polygamous marriages ARE NOT legal in Canada, but if you immigrate to Canada in a polygamous marriage with many wives and children and are on welfare in Ontario, Ontario pays the bill.

This almost sounds like discrimination against Ontarians who wish to have many wives and children but are not allowed to participate in polygamous marriages, but yet as taxpayers have to fund others (Muslims) who come to Canada involved in polygamous marriages.

No wonder Dalton Mc.Guinty says Ontario can no longer afford transfer payments.

Here is a link that is more explicit in content:

http://www.torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndG...834588-sun.html

[August1991]

Polygamous marriages ARE NOT legal in Canada, but if you immigrate to Canada in a polygamous marriage with many wives and children and are on welfare in Ontario, Ontario pays the bill.

That's not correct.

A married couple can receive welfare. If there is another woman living at the same address, she can apply for welfare as an individual. If the man wants to consider the two women as his two wives (and the two women agree), that's a different matter - who is to stop him? But the second "wife" is not entitled to pension survivor benefits for example.

In addition, the man cannot immigrate to Canada with the two wives. Only the first marriage is recognized for determining visas. A second wife would have to obtain a visa through some other means (eg. as a refugee claimant or as an independent applicant).

In the same sense, several older brothers and sisters can live together and each receive welfare. Indeed, it is common for several welfare recipients to share an apartment and common costs. Each applies for welfare as individuals.

[Leafless]

That's not correct.

A married couple can receive welfare. If there is another woman living at the same address, she can apply for welfare as an individual. If the man wants to consider the two women as his two wives (and the two women agree), that's a different matter - who is to stop him? But the second "wife" is not entitled to pension survivor benefits for example.

In addition, the man cannot immigrate to Canada with the two wives. Only the first marriage is recognized for determining visas. A second wife would have to obtain a visa through some other means (eg. as a refugee claimant or as an independent applicant).

In the same sense, several older brothers and sisters can live together and each receive welfare. Indeed, it is common for several welfare recipients to share an apartment and common costs. Each applies for welfare as individuals.

Hundreds of GTA Muslim men in polygamous marriages -- some with a harem of wives -- are receiving welfare and social benefits for each of their spouses, thanks to the city and province, Muslim leaders say.

Mumtaz Ali, president of the Canadian Society of Muslims, said wives in polygamous marriages are recognized as spouses under the Ontario Family Law Act, providing they were legally married under Muslim laws abroad.

What can I say!

FAMILY LAW ACT

In addressing the issue of polygamous marriages, the preamble to the Ontario Family Law Act states: "In the definition of 'spouse,' a reference to marriage includes a marriage that is actually or potentially polygamous, if it was celebrated in a jurisdiction whose system of law recognizes it as valid. R.S.O. 1990, c. F.3, s. 1 (2)."

"There are many people in the community who are taking advantage of this," Ali said. "This is a law and there's nothing wrong with it."

Edited February 9, 2008 by Leafless

[rbacon]

Remember how the enlightened left said those knuckle draggers that claimed that gay marriage was the Slippery Slope and would lead to Polygamy, etc. were hate mongers, monsters etc. Now the taxpayer of Ontario is sucking up the tab for multiple wives of Moslems here on welfare. My My. Wait till they start marrying their goats.

[August1991]

Leafless, since you defend so strongly the English language on this forum - can you please learn to read it?

Ontario's law merely states that even if a person is married in a regime where multiple spouses are allowed, the (first) marriage is still recognized. Subsequent (bigamous) marriages are not .

Nevertheless, various "spouses" living at the same address can receive welfare - but that's a separate question.

Edited February 9, 2008 by August1991

[Leafless]

Wait till they start marrying their goats.

LOL!!!

[Leafless]

Leafless, since you defend so strongly the English language on this forum - can you please learn to read it?

Ontario's law merely states that even if a person is married in a regime where multiple spouses are allowed, the (first) marriage is still recognized. Subsequent marriages are not.

Nevertheless, various "spouses" living at the same address can receive welfare - but that's a separate question.

You are talking 'general welfare', right.

Read the family law act.

Why is it you exclude factual information?

In Canada, Ali said, the man and his main wife and children enter Canada as landed immigrants. The other spouses are sponsored or arrive as visitors to join their husband to share one home.

POSSIBLE FRAUD

The families receiving benefits didn't want their identities released because it can lead to questions by authorities on how they entered Canada and can mean an end to their benefits, Ali said.

[eyeball]

Remember how the enlightened left said those knuckle draggers that claimed that gay marriage was the Slippery Slope and would lead to Polygamy, etc. were hate mongers, monsters etc.

No but I do recall that polygamy has been thriving in Bountiful BC since long before homosexuals were gay let alone married.

And barely a single knuckle-dragger was anywhere in sight in all that time. Go figure.

[Wilber]

No but I do recall that polygamy has been thriving in Bountiful BC since long before homosexuals were gay let alone married.

And barely a single knuckle-dragger was anywhere in sight in all that time. Go figure.

True, the Provincial government is afraid to press the issue out of fear it will be declared constitutional under our wonderful Charter.

[Muddy]

Mr Ali makes it very clear that people are taking advantage in the Muslim community of loop holes in our laws. We are very Liberal he says. Whats next ,arranged and forced marriages? Some say it is happening within the Indian community! According to the Koran ,men are superiour to women because they support women. Slippery slope!

Although we were not talking about Bountiful it is also repulsive because of forced marriages. But thats good for a thread of it`s own. But it does give apologists a chance to try and take the heat off the subject at hand.

[August1991]

Mr Ali makes it very clear that people are taking advantage in the Muslim community of loop holes in our laws.

Ali Mumtaz? Santa Claus believes that reindeers make him fly.

----

To my knowledge, no government in Canada accords extra benefits to "simultaneously-multiple partner marriages".

Now then. Do several people shacking up get welfare? Probably.

[scribblet]

Canada - the Land of Milk It Honey !!

[scribblet]

http://www.torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndG...836772-sun.html

since when was polygamy recognized in Ontario - Well, it is in a passage in the Ontario Family Law Act, that recognizes spouses in polygamous marriages, provided it was celebrated in a country that recognizes the union as valid.

The Family Law Act was designed to create equality among spouses and to help settle their affairs if the marriage ends.

Only in Canada - pity - it needs to be repealed, now.

An abuse of the welfare system by GTA Muslim men allowed to live in polygamous marriages under a controversial Ontario law was met with shock and outrage yesterday.

-snip-

Opposition leader John Tory said Premier Dalton McGuinty has to clarify the meaning of the polygamy law to Ontario residents. Polygamy is illegal in Canada, but recognized in the province, he said.

"Our rules are our rules and it says one cheque for one spouse," Tory said yesterday. "The government has to clarify how the law works with each other."

Tory called for more enforcement to ensure the law is not abused.

Toronto city councillor Rob Ford said he's calling on Ontario Social Services Minister Madeleine Meilleur to review the polygamous marriage policy since it contravenes Canadian laws .

[eyeball]

Although we were not talking about Bountiful it is also repulsive because of forced marriages. But thats good for a thread of it`s own. But it does give apologists a chance to try and take the heat off the subject at hand.

What is the real crux of the subject? The laws, the loopholes, the typically inflamed reaction to welfare abuse? No. The main similarity between Islamic polygamy and Christian polygamy, the elephant in the room, is religion. Its why the feds haven't moved on the polygamous husbands and spouses of Bountiful and its probably why it won't go after them in Toronto or anywhere.

The slippery slope isn't what you think it is, its an elephant, which is something the government either has to touch in every case or pretend its not there and ignore it.

Toronto city councillor Rob Ford said he's calling on Ontario Social Services Minister Madeleine Meilleur to review the polygamous marriage policy since it contravenes Canadian laws.

This will accomplish nothing. What needs to happen is that lawmakers have to affirm for one and all that Canada is a secular country that does not base any of its laws on religious beliefs. Until this happens you'll just have to get used to that queasy feeling that reality is sliding sideways and that the world has gone mad.

Edited February 10, 2008 by eyeball

[Leafless]

The slippery slope isn't what you think it is, its an elephant, which is something the government either has to touch in every case or pretend its not there and ignore it.

This will accomplish nothing. What needs to happen is that lawmakers have to affirm for one and all that Canada is a secular country that does not base any of its laws on religious beliefs. Until this happens you'll just have to get used to that queasy feeling that reality is sliding sideways and that the world has gone mad.

You are wrong.

What must be addressed is the destructive nature 'official multiculturalism'.

Canadians have a primary culture and includes the majority religion Christianity, a religion many laws are based on.

[eyeball]

We could just try calming the mutli-cultural water's by paying attention to and promoting the more salient fact that we're all simply Earthling's. Are "calmer waters" also not the ultimate goal of secularism?

The importance politicians afford religious beliefs is the bigger problem. Religions shouldn't be afforded any more status than a club or an association at best. I don't see how you can possibly get around putting every religous person's culture on the same pedastal when their religious beliefs are afforded such a high level of importance. The two are usually pretty inseparable given the way they're co-joined in people's minds.

Earthling's don't have a primary culture, despite the efforts of some religions to establish one anyway and our laws should be based on reason.

[M.Dancer]

Simple soulution is to eliminate welfare for anyone who can walk and chew gum at the same time while not allowing those who can't to immigrate here.

The problem isn't the muslims or religion is general but our lax welfare system.

No able bodied immigrant should be on welfare.

[eyeball]

Yup, we could do things too.

[BubberMiley]

Canadians have a primary culture and includes the majority religion Christianity, a religion many laws are based on.

True, and strangely that majority culture has decided it wishes to have a clear separation of church and state, and that it doesn't want to be an ethnocentric society with one dominant race. Therefore that majority has voted in governments that enact multicultural policy, the charter of rights and freedoms, and it has made sure the church no longer controls public affairs.

The tyranny of the majority wins again.

[Leafless]

True, and strangely that majority culture has decided it wishes to have a clear separation of church and state, and that it doesn't want to be an ethnocentric society with one dominant race.

I don't recall that referendum.

Perhaps you could cite proof rather than fabricate what the majority culture desires?

Therefore that majority has voted in governments that enact multicultural policy, the charter of rights and freedoms, and it has made sure the church no longer controls public affairs.

The tyranny of the majority wins again.

Perhaps you mean the tyranny of the minority.

[CanadianOak]

this should stop immediately. Polygamy is a crime and should be dealt with accordingly.

[Borg]

this should stop immediately. Polygamy is a crime and should be dealt with accordingly.

Precident has already been set.

Religious beliefs trump law in this country.

So kwiturbichin'.

Laws are now applied as to your beliefs - if not - simply apply to the human "righteous commissions" and get things changed to suit your personal situation.

It costs nothing - the taxpayer covers your expenses. Everything is free!!

Perhaps it is best that you to explore a religion that will fit your life style in "new canada" - the land of inequality under the rule of law.

You too can have many wives and not be required to obey laws that are repugnant to you and any who might want to join you.

You too can live for free on the backs of the tax payer.

All in the name of tolerance and people wonder why canada stands for nothing but tolerance,

Borg

[Moonlight Graham]

Here's a thought: When you come into Canada, pick one woman to legally be your wife in this country. Genius!!

Edited February 25, 2008 by Moonlight Graham

[Borg]

Here's a thought: When you come into Canada, pick one woman to legally be your wife in this country. Genius!!

Now now - sarcasm does not become you.

Borg