Why is Israel the biggest terrorist state in the world?

[DogOnPorch]

Expecting me to engage you in a tedious conversation that is based in history is a little too much. I can not be expected to do so everytime a member requests such debate. You do realize that this a highly heated debate, right?

I'm sorry...but that doesn't wash. If you can't debate the point again...why did you join this forum? You can't expect people to simply take you at your rather dubious word.

Second, I saw myself as a Canadian first, too, at one time. That sort of changed after 9/11 when people started looking at me weird, and suddenly I realized that even if I saw myself as Canadian, many saw me as a terrorist. It was very upsetting but now I deal with it--unsuccessfully no less. I do prefer to think of myself as Canadian but others won't let me. You won't believe how many people were looking at me suspiciously after 9/11 and how many very curiously would ask me: "so...what do YOU think about 9/11" and everybody in the room would look at me as if I was supposed to say: "I am planning to kill all of you today. All my polite behavior in the past was simply pretense." And I would take out a gun and shoot them. I would not be lying if I said all this has made me more radicalized.

If you view yourself as a radical Muslim, then perhaps you are simply my enemy. Ever wonder why folks treat you 'weird'? Heheh.

One thing I'm damn sure of is that not all Canadian-Pakistanis feel the same way as you. I think it's time to look deep into your own inner-self and find out why you're so angry. Because if you think that it is me...or Jews...or the Man in the Moon...causing your anger, I think you'll find you'd be wrong.

Think of the whole Chinese and communist thing in US, some time ago.

Eh? The McCarthy Era?? That is some time ago, indeed. But if you're refering to the Cold War in general I think you'll find we Canadians were more keen on playing hockey with our Russian neighbors than blowing them up. Turned out we all loved our children the same amount and in the same fashion...so let's play.

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In the casino, the cardinal rule is to keep them playing and to keep them coming back. The longer they play, the more they lose, and in the end, we get it all.

---Robert De Niro ("Ace" Rothstein): Casino

[ScottSA]

I don't hate Jews. I hate murderers, warmongers, rapists,

Oh dear, you hate Mohammed? Better keep it to yourself or "youths" might show up and burn down your neighbourhood.

Edited December 4, 2007 by ScottSA

[Drea]

If you view yourself as a radical Muslim, then perhaps you are simply my enemy. Ever wonder why folks treat you 'weird'? Heheh.

I have to respond to this because everyone else has ganged up on this guy... and I for one am happy to see a muslim with the guts to be here.

Welcome aboard aras.

He is pissed because he is vilified because of the colour of his skin and his religion. He's pissed because his culture and religion are vilified in the media. He is pissed because he feels he can't get a word in edgewise. He is pissed because all he's gotten so far on this board are insults. If there is even one person who has the guts to debate the man on the issue, I have yet to see it. Tossing out propaganda links is not debate folks.

I am not going to debate the issue because I do not have enough knowledge of it.

It's like highschool bullies (guys like you DogonPorch) who cannot understand why the skinny nerdy kid really hates him (gets a gun and kills everyone). Bully kid can't understand why the nerd doesn't find his "pranks" funny. "Whaat?" says the bully, "I was only jokin', you can't take a joke loser" You were that bully kid weren't you DOP?

One thing I'm damn sure of is that not all Canadian-Pakistanis feel the same way as you. I think it's time to look deep into your own inner-self and find out why you're so angry. Because if you think that it is me...or Jews...or the Man in the Moon...causing your anger, I think you'll find you'd be wrong.

Yes, and the nerd can just blame himself, his parents or his religion, right? The bully kid picking on him has absolutely NO bearing on it? Being told you are the scum of the earth, in person and in the media day after day. Come on now, get a clue. This would piss off even the most zen of personalities.

Eh? The McCarthy Era?? That is some time ago, indeed. But if you're refering to the Cold War in general I think you'll find we Canadians were more keen on playing hockey with our Russian neighbors than blowing them up. Turned out we all loved our children the same amount and in the same fashion...so let's play.

He meant the treatment that the Chinese and communist Americans recieved at that time in history. In Canada we stole all the assets of the Japanese and sent them to internment camps. This is the type of thing he was referring to.

Clue in.

[ScottSA]

He is pissed because he is vilified because of the colour of his skin and his religion. He's pissed because his culture and religion are vilified in the media. He is pissed because he feels he can't get a word in edgewise. He is pissed because all he's gotten so far on this board are insults. If there is even one person who has the guts to debate the man on the issue, I have yet to see it. Tossing out propaganda links is not debate folks.

So, Drea, where do you stand on eugenics?

He's vilified because he's a moron who makes up or repeats unsubstantiated claims, posts reams of Islamofascist agitprop without links, creates multiple threads calling Joooos terrorists, and has obviously spent far too much time banging his noggin on the ground in preparation for the 12 Imam or the second coming of the pathological murderer he worships or whatever...what did you call it? "Sky pixie?" I don't care if he's a pastel shade of puce with hot pink polka dots...this is the type of person we want more of in Canada?

[Michael Hardner]

There has been an influx of trolls like this in the board lately. Longtime posters should make a pact not to post to them, however entertaining it may be.

[jbg]

He is pissed because he feels he can't get a word in edgewise. He is pissed because all he's gotten so far on this board are insults. If there is even one person who has the guts to debate the man on the issue, I have yet to see it. Tossing out propaganda links is not debate folks.

Quite the contrary. I have given him serious, even complimentary responses (link). I almost immediately praised him when he joined (link).

He hasn't responded.

Edited December 4, 2007 by jbg

[DogOnPorch]

...and I for one am happy to see a muslim with the guts to be here.

It's a small world afterall...

It's like highschool bullies (guys like you DogonPorch) who cannot understand why the skinny nerdy kid really hates him (gets a gun and kills everyone). Bully kid can't understand why the nerd doesn't find his "pranks" funny. "Whaat?" says the bully, "I was only jokin', you can't take a joke loser" You were that bully kid weren't you DOP?

Yeah...I've seen the

, too. Pretty lame.

He claims to be an adult and a PhD...so he's not in the schoolyard anymore. So where am I bullying this fellow again?

He meant the treatment that the Chinese and communist Americans recieved at that time in history. In Canada we stole all the assets of the Japanese and sent them to internment camps. This is the type of thing he was referring to.

Clue in.

Is it? Did he PM you and tell you what was going on in his brain when he wrote: Think of the whole Chinese and communist thing in US, some time ago. If yes...then who's bullying who? If no...thanks for your input. I'll take it under the advisement it deserves.

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Grief is the agony of an instant, the indulgence of grief the blunder of a life.

---Benjamin Disraeli

[Drea]

So, Drea, where do you stand on eugenics?

Different thread.. which you folks have turned into a mess that I am avoiding.

He's vilified because he's a moron who makes up or repeats unsubstantiated claims, posts reams of Islamofascist agitprop without links, creates multiple threads calling Joooos terrorists, and has obviously spent far too much time banging his noggin on the ground in preparation for the 12 Imam or the second coming of the pathological murderer he worships or whatever...what did you call it? "Sky pixie?"

Read my post I do not believe in such things.

I don't care if he's a pastel shade of puce with hot pink polka dots...this is the type of person we want more of in Canada?

Well when someone is backed into a corner (I bet aras felt backed into a corner well before he got to MLW) they attack. Even a cute mouse will attack when cornered.

[capricorn]

There has been an influx of trolls like this in the board lately. Longtime posters should make a pact not to post to them, however entertaining it may be.

Good point. Actually if you look over Aras's posts it makes you wonder whether his anger is real or feigned. His vividly disgusting descriptions of rape, whether literal or not, does beg the question. The thing is you can't help but read his posts just to see how outrageous his next post will be. Perhaps trolling is an art form.

[ScottSA]

Well when someone is backed into a corner (I bet aras felt backed into a corner well before he got to MLW) they attack. Even a cute mouse will attack when cornered.

Oh hell, I've been attacked daily here for holding strong and unpopular opinions. Yet I've never, not once, had to resort to making false claims or posting reams of agitprop masquerading as journalism, and doing it without links. Aras has, it seems to me, proven himself intellectually unequipped to defend his own unpopular opinions, in spite of highly doubtful claims to posessing a Phd, and that's where the problem lies; not in a bunch of nasty bullies.

[Drea]

He claims to be an adult and a PhD...so he's not in the schoolyard anymore. So where am I bullying this fellow again?

Even adults can be victim to bullying. Even adults can be bullies.

DoP, not just you, and I'm sorry I singled you out. Everyone, JB, capricorn, scottsa, moxie.. all of you acted like bullies. Not one of you (ok maybe Rue) tried to talk about the subject. You just threw a bunch of insults around. Although many of us do this (we sorta know one another) it can be quite disconserting to a newbie.

I am not defending aras' behaviour, I am condemning yours. He is crude and doesn't yet know the subtleties of this unique forum.

Is it? Did he PM you and tell you what was going on in his brain when he wrote: Think of the whole Chinese and communist thing in US, some time ago.

Read the sentence in its context. In the post from which this sentence came, aras was lamenting the fact that he felt vilified and singled out. Just like the Japanese, the Chinese back during the second world war.

I'm not trying to be a mod -- just noting the low level of decorum.

...aras we use smilies to denote emotion...

Edited December 4, 2007 by Drea

[capricorn]

I'm not trying to be a mod -- just noting the low level of decorum.

Drea, I feel you are trying to defuse a situation because you sense a deep seated anger in Aras. That's laudable. If I was sitting on a stool in a bar and Aras was sitting next to me, and spoke his views as he has done here I would do the same. But on this forum try as we may we can't save the Aras' of the world. But then, for all we know they are past the point of no return.

[DogOnPorch]

I'm not trying to be a mod -- just noting the low level of decorum.

Graphic rape comments and such...I noticed as well.

DoP, not just you, and I'm sorry I singled you out.

Apology accepted. We've never crossed swords before. No need in the future.

You just threw a bunch of insults around.

I did no such thing.

Even adults can be victim to bullying. Even adults can be bullies.

Perhaps...but I'm not. You know it, too. Just opinionated. A human quality common on forums.

He is crude and doesn't yet know the subtleties of this unique forum.

Perhaps trolling is an art form.

I pick capricorn's response.

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Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd, smiling

Merciless, the magistrate turns 'round, frowning...

and who's the fool?...who wears the crown?

---Fearless: Pink Floyd

[aras]

Aras, I have always wondered if "arab-looking" Canadians experienced suspicion from others since 911. I guess so.

And I find that sad.

We only see the worst of Islam. It's all over the TV every day. Even fiction. CSI and the like have "terrorists" now instead of criminals.

Muslims are vilified in the media.

I can imagine that it would really piss a person off after a while!

I have a friend in Iran who would like to come here to university. Would she be "under suspicion" because of her country of origin or her religion? I've spoken with her many times and have never noticed even a shred of "hatred" of any race, religion or country. Yet if she were here she would be expected to hate - we are taught that Islam equals hate. There are hateful people who are Muslim, and 911 being blamed on them, the conflict between Israel and Palestine, Pakistan and India, Turkey, etc. only add to the suspicion.

Keep in mind, aras that I do not believe in religion and would like to see it eradicated from the earth. At the same time, I also believe that one religion or culture is not inherently better than another. (being that I can't eradicate religion I begrudgingly accept that it exists)

While we in the west may be astounded that people would kill themselves, other cultures are equally astounded that we kill one another so wantonly. I am not saying it's right, just that it is.

Aras has come here and he is deeply p'od. I suspect that he has chosen (correct me if I am wrong aras) the Israel/Palestine conflict because it is something he is familiar with more than others. (admit it, if you don't know anyone living/lived in the area you are spouting from your arm chair).

I am not saying he is correct in his assumptions, nor correct in his manner. I am saying he is pissed because of his treatment and lashes out with the knowledge that he has.

There are always more than one "version" of events. Those "on the top" will have a different version than those "on the bottom". (history is written by the victor).

And yes it is true that, on this board and in this country, Israel/Jews are subtley considered "above reproach" when it comes to criticism.

Aras, although your approach, with this very sensitive subject, is crude I can understand you wanting to know that others (Canadians, Americans) that don't believe every Muslim is a terrorist.

I'm one of those. I believe each individual is a human first. Everything else is secondary.

Thank you. I think you understand me. Don't defend me or even try to understand me, however. Others will turn on you, I promise. I am used to people ganging up on me. Let me deal with them. I have a feeling I will be banned soon anyways. I ccouldn't win when I was much more moderate and shy. I can't win now when I am much more expressive. I guess I will always be thought of as a terrorist and I will have to deal with it. A different time and place those very people would have been in my place and maybe I would have been an asshole too. Maybe it's too much to expect people to understand you.

[ScottSA]

Thank you. I think you understand me. Don't defend me or even try to understand me, however. Others will turn on you, I promise. I am used to people ganging up on me. Let me deal with them. I have a feeling I will be banned soon anyways. I ccouldn't win when I was much more moderate and shy. I can't win now when I am much more expressive. I guess I will always be thought of as a terrorist and I will have to deal with it. A different time and place those very people would have been in my place and maybe I would have been an asshole too. Maybe it's too much to expect people to understand you.

You're quite good at playing the victim. Do you actually belive it or are you just taking a page from the Cair handbook?

[jbg]

Even adults can be victim to bullying. Even adults can be bullies.

DoP, not just you, and I'm sorry I singled you out. Everyone, JB, capricorn, scottsa, moxie.. all of you acted like bullies. Not one of you (ok maybe Rue) tried to talk about the subject. You just threw a bunch of insults around. Although many of us do this (we sorta know one another) it can be quite disconserting to a newbie.

I've acted like a bully? Quite the contrary. Note this post, where I largely agreed with Aras:

I tend to agree with at least some of your observations. After all, because of the unending violence Israel is a backward, ignorant wasteland, and Syria is a high-tech wonder that makes the deserts bloom.

I think you make some good points in a spare, economical manner.

I also supported Aras in this link, so don't tar me with the same brush as Dog on Porch, Capricorn, ScottSA, Moxie.

Thank you. I think you understand me. Don't defend me or even try to understand me, however. Others will turn on you, I promise. I am used to people ganging up on me. Let me deal with them. I have a feeling I will be banned soon anyways. I ccouldn't win when I was much more moderate and shy. I can't win now when I am much more expressive. I guess I will always be thought of as a terrorist and I will have to deal with it. A different time and place those very people would have been in my place and maybe I would have been an asshole too. Maybe it's too much to expect people to understand you.

See above. I enjoy debating with you on the merits, and hope you are not banned.

[buffycat]

You're quite good at playing the victim. Do you actually belive it or are you just taking a page from the Cair handbook?

Oh come on Scotty!!

We all know that you are the biggest victim here of all!! What with all those brown people making your life so darn miserable!!

ahahahahahah!

Gag me with a spoon baby

Edited December 4, 2007 by buffycat

[ScottSA]

Oh come on Scotty!!

We all know that you are the biggest victim here of all!! What with all those brown people making your life so darn miserable!!

ahahahahahah!

Gag me with a spoon baby

Stop hitting on me. I feel objectified.

[Moxie]

From his very first post he attack this forums members, spamming the board with anti-Israel propaganda. Did I pounce on him, no. I rebuttaled in the same manner he put forth, I feel no quilt atall. Pandering and appeasing hateful posters is for the usual suspects of knee dippers and white haters.

He's not the first person I've met on a forum that pretended to be Muslim to stir up anti-Islamic sentiment. He won't be the last, he was a troll and if he wasn't it's a scary thought that this individual stated he was born in Canada-Educated in Canada and his english writing skills were on par with sixth grader. If he's an example of a moderate Muslim, we indeed have a problem Huston.

He was given a fair chance, he blew it.

[jbg]

From his very first post he attack this forums members, spamming the board with anti-Israel propaganda. Did I pounce on him, no. I rebuttaled in the same manner he put forth, I feel no quilt atall. Pandering and appeasing hateful posters is for the usual suspects of knee dippers and white haters.

I thought his posting style was temperate and well-considered.

If he's an example of a moderate Muslim, we indeed have a problem Huston.

We spell it "Houston". Is that a Canadian spelling?

[buffycat]

Stop hitting on me. I feel objectified.

Oh Scott, this was a response to your lovely little slur against me here:

As far as I can tell, there is only one person hereabouts who blames the Jews, and she's either banned or at a 'gag-me-with-a-spoon' party. I really don't know where the old white elites fit in though, and isn't it a bit racist to blame whites? Or is that ok?

I know you didn't call me by name Scotty, but you've used the spoon reference often in regards to me. Nice little personal attack I'd say - since I in no way have blamed the Jews for the current state of the world - unlike your constant blaming of the brown people and those terrorist Muslims who are hiding under your bloody pillow at night!! You own fears betray you Scotty.

Anyway I stand by my assessment, that you are the biggest victim here - and now you are objectified!!

Very special indeed!!

[buffycat]

From his very first post he attack this forums members, spamming the board with anti-Israel propaganda. Did I pounce on him, no. I rebuttaled in the same manner he put forth, I feel no quilt atall. Pandering and appeasing hateful posters is for the usual suspects of knee dippers and white haters.

He's not the first person I've met on a forum that pretended to be Muslim to stir up anti-Islamic sentiment. He won't be the last, he was a troll and if he wasn't it's a scary thought that this individual stated he was born in Canada-Educated in Canada and his english writing skills were on par with sixth grader. If he's an example of a moderate Muslim, we indeed have a problem Huston.

He was given a fair chance, he blew it.

I too question whether he was anything he claimed to be frankly. More likely a trouble maker pretending to be Muslim in order to sow more derision. I call false flag on this one. (Which is why I refrained from supporting his posts - even though some of the links provided were fine on their own). I've seen this game played before, it's baiting and pushing, flaming and trolling.

Not to mention boring.

Gee Moxie, do you find it odd that we are agreeing on things lately?

[Rue]

There has been an influx of trolls like this in the board lately. Longtime posters should make a pact not to post to them, however entertaining it may be.

Michael, I genuinely was taught to challenge hatred in any form with open honest debate. On the other hand I appreciate what you say. Fire can not burn if there is no air. I actually foudn Drea's response very positive and the point you and Cap made was not lost either. I believe Jefferiah demonstrated the perfect solution for me to learn from. He mad an effort to respond and challenge the hatred but then also exercised restraint after it became apparent to him further responses would not help. I will try learn from that simple act of moderation he demonstrated.

Edited December 5, 2007 by Rue

[Michael Hardner]

Rue,

Michael, I genuinely was taught to challenge hatred in any form with open honest debate. On the other hand I appreciate what you say. Fire can not burn if there is no air. I actually foudn Drea's response very positive and the point you and Cap made was not lost either. I believe Jefferiah demonstrated the perfect solution for me to learn from. He mad an effort to respond and challenge the hatred but then also exercised restraint after it became apparent to him further responses would not help. I will try learn from that simple act of moderation he demonstrated.

There are plenty of people on this board who dislike immigrants, and might even be racist, but can frame an argument around their beliefs, and are able to discuss.

Let's concentrate on these people, and leave the trolls alone. Hopefully, they will become bored and leave.

[White Doors]

Michael, I genuinely was taught to challenge hatred in any form with open honest debate. On the other hand I appreciate what you say. Fire can not burn if there is no air. I actually foudn Drea's response very positive and the point you and Cap made was not lost either. I believe Jefferiah demonstrated the perfect solution for me to learn from. He mad an effort to respond and challenge the hatred but then also exercised restraint after it became apparent to him further responses would not help. I will try learn from that simple act of moderation he demonstrated.

And try to make your responses more to the point?

thanks!