Why is Israel the biggest terrorist state in the world?

[JerrySeinfeld]

Israel acts as all of us would if we lived surrounded by midevil freaks.

[AngusThermopyle]

Israel acts as all of us would if we lived surrounded by midevil freaks.

You make a very good point. It's one that will be lost on certain people though. I find that those who live their entire lives in comfort and safety have little empathy with or understanding of those who do not.

[JerrySeinfeld]

You make a very good point. It's one that will be lost on certain people though. I find that those who live their entire lives in comfort and safety have little empathy with or understanding of those who do not.

Exactly. The UN, Canada, Europe etc. love to talk talk talk talk talk. It's a nice luxury to have when the whole idea of "mid east tension" is just a concept thrown a round at cocktail parties and discussion forums.

But Israel lives it daily, which is why they act.

[Rue]

Israel acts as all of us would if we lived surrounded by midevil freaks.

I would restate it less beligerently. There is absolutely no doubt the Western style of society as seen in Israel (other than with its ultra-orthodox Jews) is vastly different than the traditional oriental life style in most parts of the Muslim world (although many Islamic countries have energing middle classes very much influenced by Western values) which can cause conflict.

Just the way women and gays for example express their rights in Israel could lead to someone's death in Islamic countries.

So yes that adds to the complexion of the conflict. But I do not think referring to the entire Middle East as mid-evil freaks is constructive. It simply fuels a negative stereotype of the Islamic world and ignores modern progressive Muslims let alobe the things all people have in common, i.e., the desire for peace, a job, etc.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Rue

[AngusThermopyle]

the things all people have in common, i.e., the desire for peace,

Most of what you say makes sense. Except for that statement. Not everyone desires peace, some desire quite the opposite in fact. With strife and conflict come vast opportunities for the growth of personal power and influence.

One should never assume everyone wants peace. If one does then that one will be blindsided by those who seek power and influence over peace. It is more representative to state that most or the majority want peace, not everyone.

[kengs333]

You make a very good point. It's one that will be lost on certain people though. I find that those who live their entire lives in comfort and safety have little empathy with or understanding of those who do not.

Another fact that is lost on certain people is that the state of Israel was created in the midst of these "midevil freaks" because some Jews felt that they had an inherent right to this particular land was even though they lost a war and were expelled 1,900 years ago.

[kengs333]

Exactly. The UN, Canada, Europe etc. love to talk talk talk talk talk. It's a nice luxury to have when the whole idea of "mid east tension" is just a concept thrown a round at cocktail parties and discussion forums.

But Israel lives it daily, which is why they act.

If they live it daily, then it's their choice. It's pretty arrogant to suggest that somehow despite the fact of Israel was created, that everyone should just live in peace and leave Israel alone. I guess it's a quiant idea to give Jews their own state where they can live in peace given how they've been treated sometimes, but when this kind of problem solving just causes more problems, no one has the right to cry "victim" when in fact one has become the victimizer.

[jbg]

Another fact that is lost on certain people is that the state of Israel was created in the midst of these "midevil freaks" because some Jews felt that they had an inherent right to this particular land was even though they lost a war and were expelled 1,900 years ago.

No. It was a wasteland at the time. They did have ties to the area.

What really drove the Zionist movement was when the granting of civil liberties and political rights to Jews in the 1880's caused, instead of better relations with the Gentile community, all h*ll to break loose for them. Things went from mediocre to horrible, in rapid succession, in Prussia (now Germany), Czarist Russia and even France. Any intelligent person could know that the US and Canada would eventually have to do something to restrict immigration, as both the Orient and Europe were fast spiraling into chaos, and the Jews knew that they'd receive a diminishing welcome. Thus the need to find a homeland.

Since every group at that time was seeking to vindicate their national identity, why should the Jews have been any different, except that Jew-haters like you wanted them captive, surrounded and dead.

If they live it daily, then it's their choice. It's pretty arrogant to suggest that somehow despite the fact of Israel was created, that everyone should just live in peace and leave Israel alone. I guess it's a quiant idea to give Jews their own state where they can live in peace given how they've been treated sometimes, but when this kind of problem solving just causes more problems, no one has the right to cry "victim" when in fact one has become the victimizer.

It was King's and Roosvelt's choice as well. They wanted the Jews dead rather than over here. The Jews didn't cooperate in their own oblivion. Edited December 7, 2007 by jbg

[kengs333]

No. It was a wasteland at the time. They did have ties to the area.

A wasteland? What ties?

What really drove the Zionist movement was when the granting of civil liberties and political rights to Jews in the 1880's caused, instead of better relations with the Gentile community, all h*ll to break loose for them. Things went from mediocre to horrible, in rapid succession, in Prussia (now Germany), Czarist Russia and even France. Any intelligent person could know that the US and Canada would eventually have to do something to restrict immigration, as both the Orient and Europe were fast spiraling into chaos, and the Jews knew that they'd receive a diminishing welcome. Thus the need to find a homeland.

Actually, Canada was letting Jews in at this time, so if Canada didn't want them then why did they let them in in the first place? I think the problems really started with the labour radicalism of the 1920s etc. which was the result of large numbers of eastern Europeans in the country who brought with them Communism and other radical ideologies.

Since every group at that time was seeking to vindicate their national identity, why should the Jews have been any different, except that Jew-haters like you wanted them captive, surrounded and dead.

Absolutely unnecessary and untrue. You have no right making such hostile and malicious assertions.

It was King's and Roosvelt's choice as well. They wanted the Jews dead rather than over here. The Jews didn't cooperate in their own oblivion.

Well, I don't think that any country is obliged to accept large groups of refugees; and at that time there was a perception that Jews were linked with Communism and everybody frightened--rightfully so--about the spread of Communism and its subversion of stable Christian societies. I'm not sure about "wanting them dead" but even with the tone of the rhetoric coming out of Germany, I don't think anyone really foresaw what was really going to happen. The Nazis really convinced many people that they simply didn't want Jews in the country anymore; even the Gestapo cooperated with Zionists in getting Jews to Palestine. If they wanted to exterminate Jews, why do that?

[jbg]

Actually, Canada was letting Jews in at this time, so if Canada didn't want them then why did they let them in in the first place? I think the problems really started with the labour radicalism of the 1920s etc. which was the result of large numbers of eastern Europeans in the country who brought with them Communism and other radical ideologies.

Remember, from the number of Holocaust deaths there had to have been around 8 million Jews, at least, in Europe, excluding UK. even though both Canada and the UK, through the start of WW I were accepting Jews, it was clear, both from the number of likely Jewish emigrants, plus other ethnic groups fleeing Europe's gathering storm, that the gates would not stay open forever, Other people, largely economic opportunity seekers, had the option to stay put. The Jews didn't really have that option since it became clear thet Europe really wanted its Jews elsewhere. The sheer numbers involved created the need for a homeland.

Absolutely unnecessary and untrue. You have no right making such hostile and malicious assertions.

From your posts yesterday, you could have fooled me. Based on your rather good FN posts, and posts on other subjects I was frankly shocked.

Well, I don't think that any country is obliged to accept large groups of refugees; and at that time there was a perception that Jews were linked with Communism and everybody frightened--rightfully so--about the spread of Communism and its subversion of stable Christian societies. I'm not sure about "wanting them dead" but even with the tone of the rhetoric coming out of Germany, I don't think anyone really foresaw what was really going to happen. The Nazis really convinced many people that they simply didn't want Jews in the country anymore; even the Gestapo cooperated with Zionists in getting Jews to Palestine. If they wanted to exterminate Jews, why do that?

Palestine was, by then, largely closed off by the British, appeasing Arab "anger". Sound familiar?

[DogOnPorch]

The Nazis really convinced many people that they simply didn't want Jews in the country anymore; even the Gestapo cooperated with Zionists in getting Jews to Palestine. If they wanted to exterminate Jews, why do that?

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem put a stop to that little plan.

However, Husseini did intervene on May 13,1943, with the German Foreign Office to block possible transfers of Jews from Bulgaria, Hungary and Roumenia, after reports reached him that 4000 Jewish children accompanied by 500 adults had managed to reach Palestine. He asked that the Foreign Minister (von Ribbentrop) 'to do his utmost' to block all such proposals and this request was complied with. A year later, on the 25th July, 1944, he wrote to the Hungarian foreign minister to register his objection to the release of certificates for 900 Jewish children and 100 adults for transfer from Hungary, fearing they might end up in Palestine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni

------------------------------------------------------

It is hardly accidental that the beginning of the systematic physical destruction of European Jewry by Hitler’s Third Reich roughly coincided with the Mufti’s arrival in the Axis camp.

---Joseph Schechtman

[Rue]

Most of what you say makes sense. Except for that statement. Not everyone desires peace, some desire quite the opposite in fact. With strife and conflict come vast opportunities for the growth of personal power and influence.

One should never assume everyone wants peace. If one does then that one will be blindsided by those who seek power and influence over peace. It is more representative to state that most or the majority want peace, not everyone.

Excellent point you made. I defer to it. I should not generalize. Just the generalization made it defective but I appreciate you know I was opining an ideal not a fact.

Your response is of course dead on. A government with the moral responsibility of assuring its people remain safe must not assume anything. They don't have that luxury. However I would hope the people and their elected politicians would make efforts to try influence peaceful overtures.

[Rue]

Keng again states subjective opinions with no basis, i.e.

"Actually, Canada was letting Jews in at this time, so if Canada didn't want them then why did they let them in in the first place? "

Canada always had an extremely restrictive policy when it came to admitting non Christians or visible minorities. It turned away far more Jews then it took in. But then for Keng to make an effort to find out what the history of treatmnent of minorities were coming to this country would require he actually read a history book. Like that will happen.

"Well, I don't think that any country is obliged to accept large groups of refugees; and at that time there was a perception that Jews were linked with Communism and everybody frightened--rightfully so--about the spread of Communism and its subversion of stable Christian societies. "

Where there is Keng there is a justification for doing anything discriminatory as long as you make sure to say you do it on behalf of Jesus.

"even the Gestapo cooperated with Zionists in getting Jews to Palestine. If they wanted to exterminate Jews, why do that?"

The above is a vicious anti-semtiic lie. It suggests something that is completely false and then suggests Germany did not exterminate Jews.

How much more of this tripe needs to flow on this forum for someone to ask Keng to either quote his sources or refrain from such deliberately hateful comments?

what kind of mind suggests the Gestapo cooperated with Jews? what kind of mind tries to dismiss the holocaust and what Nazis did and suggest they were involved in a Zionist alliance?

Of course Keng will not provide the course for this outrageous statement because like all the others he makes, he fabricates them.

I again say to Keng directly who refuses to tell us all what denomination he is a member of where he got the above information from-otherwise Keng I am calling you out on the last statement and say you are nothing but a holocaust denier and fabricator of deliberately inflammatory comments designed to insult all Jews and victims of the holocaust.

Edited December 7, 2007 by Rue

[Rue]

For the record because I feel it important to address anything Keng says about Jews; Jews first came to Canada in the 1750's but they had to hide their identity as non Jews were not allowed in at that time.

Between 1850 and 1900, 15,000 Jews came to Canada. Another 120,000 came between 1990 and 1920 and ten another 60,000 between 1920 and 1940. From 1940 to the end of the War no Jews were allowed in Canada and McKenzie King openly referred to Jews trying to escape Germany and the holocaust across Europe and come to Canada as vermin that must be prevented from infiltrating Christian society and contaminating Canada.

Post world War Two to date another 135,000 Jews have come to Canada.

What Keng conveniently skips over is that during world War Two the Prime Minister who was openly anti-semitic and openly made hate statements against Jews on a regular basis often invoking the Christian religion to justify it, sent Jews to their death by sending them back to Nazi Germany.

Jews like all the other immigrants, Siekhs, Chinese, Irish,Dukabhors, Ukrainians, had similair experiences. If you were not part of the mainstream dominant culture you were forced to live in ghettoes and limited as to what jobs you could do.

There was a lot of ignroance displayed not just to irish, Jews, Chinese and Siekhs but all visible minorities and people not considered mainstream like the Dukhabors and Ukrainians, and other East Europeans, and other Asians and Africans and South Americans and West Indians, etc. for pretty much the same ignorant reasons you see in Keng posts when he defines people based on his "Christian" values.

[Rue]

I wish to address specifically an anti-semitic myth keng posted on this forum when he suggested the Gestapo (Nazis)collaborated with Zionists.

He stated and I quote; " The Nazis really convinced many people that they simply didn't want Jews in the country anymore; even the Gestapo cooperated with Zionists in getting Jews to Palestine. If they wanted to exterminate Jews, why do that? "

The desire of Jews wanting to return to their homeland existed long before the Nazis and the holocaust. The Balfour Declaration and the League of Nations Mandate to establish a Jewish national home in Palestine were issued decades before the Holocaust.

The actual myth Keng tries to promulgate as to a Zionist-German connection was reconstituted and recirculated by a Marxist, Lenni Brenner. Kind of ironic a true Christian like Keng is now quoting communists, the same people he claims persecute his religion.

Lennie Brenner' works are actually regurgitated copies of original docrtine origination from Stalin's propganada ministry. Brenner wrote a book, "Zionism in the Age of the Dictators" and he at points simply repeats verbatum what the Stalin propaganda Ministry created including passages from East German propagandist Klaus Polkehn. Its not even hidden.

But this is what makes anti-semitic myths interesting. They get picked up on a wide and diverse set of groups who all have on thing in common-a need to deny the holocaust and promulgate hate about Jews. For example take a look at this list of hate web sites to see how each will take Brenner's work, and run with it, but all have their own political agendas;

http://www.scripturesforamerica.org/html2/jm0100a.htm

http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres6/BAZO.pdf

http://www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/ch12.htm

http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/jews/zionazis.htm

http://www.rense.com/general43/hist.htm

http://www.harunyahya.com/books/social/hol...violence_01.php

http://www.savethemales.ca/001764.html

http://www.lastsuperpower.net/docs/nzc10zi...mingermany/view

http://www.rense.com/general40/zionn.htm

This myth actually comes out of the holocaust inversion technique created by the Nazis in Syria post world war Two in which they portray Israelis and Jews as Nazis. It was provided to the Mufti of Jerusalem who then trained Yasir Arafat on how to use it and it is widely dissemenitated on Middle East t.v. networks in Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Iran to name but a few media outlets.

In its current versions the premises for Nazi-Zionist collaboration is created by taking alleged quotes from various "Zionist" representatives. Any negotiation or attempt by Jewish leaders to ecure the safety and passage of Jews is then defined as proof of “collaboration.”

A classic example is by taking a letter of the Zionist Association for Germany (ZVfG) written in June 1933 and then suggesting its proof Zionists supported Nazi seizure of power in Germany and it was published in an article in al-Musawwar, on 16 January 1998 . Muslim "scholars Anan Bardji and Fathi Amar, presented a paper quoting Alfred Rosenberg’s piece, "The Track of the Jews in Changing Times (1919)" as evidence that the enforced emigration of German Jews to Palestine was a central aim of the Nazi movement and this was published in al-Mauqif, vol. 127 [1998] and al-’Arabi 19 January 1998.

Rosenberg a famous anti-semitic Nazi was also at one point part of a myth spread that he was Jewish also a complete fabrication. What is absolutely absurd about this piece is that if you read Rosenberg’s writings they in fact manifest violent hatred towards Jews( völkische Bewegung) and yet this is argued as proof of a basis for Nazi-Zionist cooperation!

Another deliberate lie and myth used to propagate the Nazi-Zionist connection is by making reference to the “Haavara” agreement of August 1933. That agreement allowed a number of German Jews to emigrate to Palestine. So it then inspired Zahr ad-Din Background on p.107 not to mention Stalin propagandists and neo-Nazis to all use this agreement to argue the German Ministry of Economic Affairs which organized the necessary financial transfers was involved in an elaborate Zionism conspiracy.

Sharif ash-Shubashi and Ahmad ‘Abd al-Ma’ata Hidjazi, two more Muslim"scholars" claimed Zionists collaborated with Nazis in regards to Jewish emigration in al-Ahram, in a May 9, 1996 article and again on October 16, 1996. In this myth which portrays Jews as collaborating with Nazis in a Zionist conspiracy, Jews are depicted as being the actual persecutors and deportors of Jews.

For example,Hungarian Zionist leader, Rudolph Kasztner, who tried to get Jews released from concentration camps, is depicted as being responsible for deporting Jews to the gas chambers of Auschwitz as published in Zahr ad-Din, Background, and in further articles in al-Wafd, 22 January 1998, ash-Shahid, vol. 151, 1998.

Another Muslim scholar, Abd as-Subur Marzuq claimed that Zionist leaders played an important role in supporting the Nazi security service in al-Liwa’ al-Islami, 13 October 1996.

What makes this myth Keng repeats so vile is it suggests if a Jew tried to negotiate with the Nazis to save other Jews that makes them Nazi collaborators. Interestingly the smeer is used against all Zionists, Jews and Israelis today as a vital component in denying the holocaust and trying to portray Jews as liars, and not victims of the holocaust but victimizers of themselves in the holocaust! It gets so absurd that even a well known anti-Zionist, Rabbi Weissmandel is depicted as a Zionist (simply because he is a Jew) and then as a Nazi collaborator because he tried to save Jews.

To suggest Zionists collaborated with Nazis is the ultimate in hatred and ignorance and its a classic example of how alleged criticism of Israel becomes a smeer against all Jews and a denial of the holocaust and a porrayal of Jews as victimizers of themselves.

Now I repeat again Keng cite your sources and what your religious denomination is.

Edited December 7, 2007 by Rue

[ScottSA]

Oh Scott, this was a response to your lovely little slur against me here:

I know you didn't call me by name Scotty, but you've used the spoon reference often in regards to me. Nice little personal attack I'd say - since I in no way have blamed the Jews for the current state of the world - unlike your constant blaming of the brown people and those terrorist Muslims who are hiding under your bloody pillow at night!! You own fears betray you Scotty.

Anyway I stand by my assessment, that you are the biggest victim here - and now you are objectified!!

Very special indeed!!

Stop smiling at me siren. I know what's lurking in your mind. Stop hitting on me!

[DogOnPorch]

My aunt (just a kid then), plus her sister and parents, escaped Nazi Germany after Crystal Night only to end up having to go back to Europe when they were refused entry to Cuba, the USA and Canada. Canada's response to 'how many Jews can you take?' was apparently 'None is too many.' Luckily for she and her family, they managed to get disembarked in France rather than back in Hamburg. She was one of the few Jews to make it to the US from Europe while the war was on, getting out on her visa along with her family just before France was invaded. Those who failed to get on another ship to America suffered the fate of many others....

They made a movie about their collective experience back in the 1960s: 'Ship of Fools'.

-------------------------------------------------

Ah, stardom! They put your name on a star in the sidewalk on Hollywood Boulevard and you walk down and find a pile of dog manure on it. That tells the whole story, baby.

---Lee Marvin

[kengs333]

Canada always had an extremely restrictive policy when it came to admitting non Christians or visible minorities. It turned away far more Jews then it took in. But then for Keng to make an effort to find out what the history of treatmnent of minorities were coming to this country would require he actually read a history book. Like that will happen.

That still doesn't explain why large numbers of Jews were allowed into the country prior to WWII--one also has to take into consideration the population of Canada, and the number is indeed quite significant. I'm not sure where you get "turned away far more" from. Did Canada actually turn away many boat-loads full of Jews yet at the same time let known Jews arrive in smaller groups among other eastern European immigrants?

Where there is Keng there is a justification for doing anything discriminatory as long as you make sure to say you do it on behalf of Jesus.

Such utter nonsense. Excluding non-believers is not "discriminatory" from Christian communities; non-believers will only try to undermine and corrupt Christianity, and that's exactly what has been happening for some time now. That's exactly what you're doing. And of course when someone subjects your faith to the same rigorous criticism, what is your response? Antisemitism. Well, you can call it whatever you want, but the NT makes it clear who's really right and who's really wrong. So you can make up whatever arguments you want and call people all the names you can think of, it really makes no difference in the end for you.

To suggest, though, that the government of Canada was solely governed by Christian values is pretty ignorant; religion and politics don't mix, and I'm sceptical about people who are politicians who profess to be Christians. Immigration policy was largely dictated by secualr economic and racial principles.

The above is a vicious anti-semtiic lie. It suggests something that is completely false and then suggests Germany did not exterminate Jews.

Again, utter nonsense. Nowhere did I "suggest" that the Nazis "did not exterminate Jews". I'm saying that initially there was actually an attempt to remove Jews from Germany--that means that Jews who were still alive were sent to other parts of the world, and seeing that there were only a few hundred thousand within Germany itself, this could have been accomplished. In 1939, things changed, though, when Britain and France declared war on the Nazis after they invaded Poland to win back land that was, it could be argued, rightfully Germany's in the first place. The declaration of war meant that attempts to remove Jews from Germany were much more difficult to undertake; moreover, with the invasion of Poland, and the subsequent unwanted occupation of the Low Countries and France, the Nazis suddenly had many more Jews on their hands. With the invasion of Russia, this is situation was further exaserbated, which is why in 1942 it was decided to "eliminate" the Jews. I'm NOT saying that I agree with this; I'm just relating how the situation evolved from the Nazi perspective. I've never, ever denied that a mass killing of Jews and other "undesireables" happened; just like I don't deny that other mass killings have occured, ie. in the Soviet Union, the Japanese in China, etc.

what kind of mind suggests the Gestapo cooperated with Jews? what kind of mind tries to dismiss the holocaust and what Nazis did and suggest they were involved in a Zionist alliance?

Well, apparently that's what happened; and if that's what happened, then apparently it's the "kind of mind" that is concerned with the truth. Again, I haven't denied or "dismiss[ed]" the mass killing of Jews and other "undesireables".

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/heritage/episode8/...cuments_11.html http://hgs.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/19/3/365

I again say to Keng directly who refuses to tell us all what denomination he is a member of where he got the above information from-otherwise Keng I am calling you out on the last statement and say you are nothing but a holocaust denier and fabricator of deliberately inflammatory comments designed to insult all Jews and victims of the holocaust.

Again, I haven't denied or "dismiss[ed]" the mass killing of Jews and other "undesireables".

Incidently, many Christians were killed by the Nazis, and along with other non-Jewish victims of the Nazi regime, probably numbered in the millions. Sad to say that I have often heard Jews only refer to only the Jewish victims of Nazism. I suppose that could be construed as an "insult" in a way, don't you think?

[jbg]

From 1940 to the end of the War no Jews were allowed in Canada and McKenzie King openly referred to Jews trying to escape Germany and the holocaust across Europe and come to Canada as vermin that must be prevented from infiltrating Christian society and contaminating Canada.

************

What Keng conveniently skips over is that during world War Two the Prime Minister who was openly anti-semitic and openly made hate statements against Jews on a regular basis often invoking the Christian religion to justify it, sent Jews to their death by sending them back to Nazi Germany.

RUe, it's rare that I'd ask this, but what's your source? This is very interesting material.

[jbg]

The declaration of war meant that attempts to remove Jews from Germany were much more difficult to undertake; moreover, with the invasion of Poland, and the subsequent unwanted occupation of the Low Countries and France, the Nazis suddenly had many more Jews on their hands. With the invasion of Russia, this is situation was further exaserbated, which is why in 1942 it was decided to "eliminate" the Jews. I'm NOT saying that I agree with this; I'm just relating how the situation evolved from the Nazi perspective. I've never, ever denied that a mass killing of Jews and other "undesireables" happened; just like I don't deny that other mass killings have occured, ie. in the Soviet Union, the Japanese in China, etc.

This is positively breathtaking in its hatefulness. Germany, a country that didn't exist until the 1880's, had "rightful" claims to Poland? And finding Poland and Western Russia full of Jews found it necessary to "eliminate" the Jews?

I was starting to really believe that you were just anti-Israel; now it's clear that at least as to you Prager is right, and anti-Zionism = anti-Judaism.

[kengs333]

RUe, it's rare that I'd ask this, but what's your source? This is very interesting material.

Jews weren't allowed into the country from 1940-1945 because there was a war on.

[kengs333]

This is positively breathtaking in its hatefulness. Germany, a country that didn't exist until the 1880's, had "rightful" claims to Poland? And finding Poland and Western Russia full of Jews found it necessary to "eliminate" the Jews?

I was starting to really believe that you were just anti-Israel; now it's clear that at least as to you Prager is right, and anti-Zionism = anti-Judaism.

Where exactly is the "breathtaking... hatefulness"??? I'm just stating the bare facts of what happened.

In trying to twist things way out of proportion you're worse than Posit.

And you obviously need a good lesson in the history of Germany.

Sadly it appears that you can't discuss the issue without anti-this and anti-that.

[jbg]

Sadly it appears that you can't discuss the issue without anti-this and anti-that.

Of all posters, I am one of the best in having rational discussions. When I ask for some kind of neutrality with respect to Israel, i.e. considering its actions on the same basis that Russia's and China's actions are considered, that request is always somehow evaded or falls on deaf ears.

[jbg]

Where exactly is the "breathtaking... hatefulness"??? I'm just stating the bare facts of what happened.

Attempting to justify that senseless carnage is breathtaking.

[AngusThermopyle]

RUe, it's rare that I'd ask this, but what's your source? This is very interesting material.

I cant answer for Rue, nor can I give you a source at the moment but I will say that what he states is true. King did turn Jews away from landing, many had to return to Europe, some lucky ones were granted entry into the States via New York.

This is in my opinion just about the most shamefull action in Canadas history, one that is hardly ever mentioned. As a youth I was truly dismayed when I first learned of it.