Army Guy

Canada has already tried to deploy 2 battle groups(1200 to 1500 troops ea ) at the same time, Bosina and Afgan. and it nearly burn't everything out ... soldiers, equipment, and resources.....this year we will be at that number again ....we will have 2 battlegroups in Afgan.... It takes everything we have right now to sustain what little deploments we have.... 1 Brigade group is on operations (deployed) (x6 months) 1 Brigade group is training for (x6 months while the above are on ops) and our last Brigade group is resting (x 6 months...) That means that every fit army guy in the forces will start an operation once every year....

Black dog anyways got to go...enjoyed the debate...hope to continue it tommorrow. Stoker: As in Navy stoker. are you currently serving or retired.east or west coast. got some family in halifax dock yard something to do with the sub program. Thanks for the help with that Brain dude.

So we will forget about foriegn policy, and the world stage and we will concentrate on domestic defense. you are still going to need some of those shinny toys...as they are the ones that provide the best protection, offensive and defensive suits, overall best chances our soldiers will survive an engagement. All to often gov't purchases equipment because the price was right... not because it gives our soldiers the best chances of survival. it has become cheaper to pay off the widower... than to spend our tax dollars...

NDP have never been military friendly most of thier platform is a peacekeeping one...The primary miliatry mission is defense of Canada and all her interest at home and abroad....to do that you must have an army capable of high intensity warfare....as it is this skill that makes soldiers able to peacekeep...the biggest kid on the block keeps the peace....NDP will not support this..

Let me ask you this...would you say a country with well over 30 mil people, a mid power, a wealthy country should be able to deploy a armed force of over 2500 persons...do you still think we are doing enough....

Sorry NDP and military do not mix....Oil and water... Boosting domestic capabilities is good it is great ...still going to cost more than we can afford...but i hope you still do not want a voice on the world stage...for that the country needs to be able to project military power....

The military has done this exericise a billion times...the put in a huge list the gov't gives them a few items back and says choose.... Unless the people of Canada are serious about rebuilding thier military what would be the piont. I'm not talking about a few bil more over 5 years...i'm talking 100's of bils over 20 years... Sorry I'm a grunt and my typing is not as fast as your's

You talk as if you know this for certain...and yet i as a military member with access to low level intel can not make that statement with 100 % certainity. What about the armies contribution to afgan, or the Navy's contribution to the war on terror....you are right it is all about intel and old fassion research and investagation by CSIS...then given to the military for action... There are many levels of threats to Canada's security....only a few deal with military matters. Me as a military member i'm getting into that grey area in regards to things that are classified on that question and would like to pass. I would like it for Canada just to be on stage, next to the other mid world powers. ...But like i said before Canadian soldiers do make a difference and if given the resources can find the practical solutions...

Perhaps this is just the threat we need to get the liberal minded Canadians to spend money on thier own defense... I mean realistically the US is already giving us a free ride now...which is not very popular with americans right now...who might just demand we spend more on defense... I'd be interested in hearing how you are going to sell this to Canadians....because i'm not sure if i'm ready to give up everything that is Canadain.

Black dog. Even Switzerland knows and values it's defense department.....they also know that staying neutral has it's cost... I agree it is a subject all in it self. I agree , to a piont if it fits in with Canada's moral and values why not....is it not our responsabilty as a mid world power to be the grown up... At the time the majority of Canadians would not agree with you....I think it was the birth of Canada as a indepnedant nation (again a separate topic of discussion) US dominance does not garentee Canada with 100 % certainity that Canada as a nation will not be attack by any nation with those capabilities....Hence why we still are part of NATO...because without Nato what is going to keep the rest of the world in check....

Black dog. This is my opinion only...I think Canada is supposed to be a mid world power....is it not time we start acting like it... BMD is a land based wpn sys designed as a defensive wpn...what is wrong with defending ourselfs...would it not be great if this wpn sys made launching any type of missile obsolete....as for sending troops into Iraq...The US may have entered Iraq for the wrong reasons....but it did send a message to other countries that slaughter there own by the millions....US forces are making a difference....time will prove that... WW I, WWII, are two examples of stopping them in there backyard.....power and greed are hard to stop once they gather momentum.... Any country with Amphibous /and or Hvy airlift...would it be sucessful is another question....Is it a concern ,Yes, NATO thinks so....

Black dog. This is my opinion only...I think Canada is supposed to be a mid world power....is it not time we start acting like it... BMD is a land based wpn sys designed as a defensive wpn...what is wrong with defending ourselfs...would it not be great if this wpn sys made launching any type of missile obsolete....as for sending troops into Iraq...The US may have entered Iraq for the wrong reasons....but it did send a message to other countries that slaughter there own by the millions....US forces are making a difference....time will prove that... WW I, WWII, are two examples of stopping them in there backyard.....power and greed are hard to stop once they gather momentum.... Any country with Amphibous /and or Hvy airlift...would it be sucessful is another question....Is it a concern ,Yes, NATO thinks so....

Black dog. This is my opinion only...I think Canada is supposed to be a mid world power....is it not time we start acting like it... BMD is a land based wpn sys designed as a defensive wpn...what is wrong with defending ourselfs...would it not be great if this wpn sys made launching any type of missile obsolete....as for sending troops into Iraq...The US may have entered Iraq for the wrong reasons....but it did send a message to other countries that slaughter there own by the millions....US forces are making a difference....time will prove that... WW I, WWII, are two examples of stopping them in there backyard.....power and greed are hard to stop once they gather momentum.... Any country with Amphibous /and or Hvy airlift...would it be sucessful is another question....Is it a concern ,Yes, NATO thinks so....

Black dog Is it really, is that why we are fighting in Iraq, I don't think it's as bad as we Canadains protray it to be... If you are going to scrap it then lets scrap it...having all those little depts around will only end-up in one big one in time as a cost savings measure....why have a milita it is part of the military structure....besides with our current numbers that is what we have anyways a small force....And we are lucky our enemies are few.... But sometimes we have a choice slay the dragons in someone else backyard ...or become fat and lazy waiting for them to arrive in our backyard, exposing our citizens to war.....

Yes, it's a great idea...But could we trust the defense of our country to merc's......An organization of that size what would stop them from siezing full control over all our assets....the RCMP....Or what would prevent them from switching sides to the highest bidder.... Would it be cheaper.... Perhaps we could pay the US...and have them project their values or foriegn policy on Canada. What ever we as Canadians decide i hope we do it soon...support DND or scrap it .....

sorry double post

Brainw: I think your a young guy, with a knot on for the world ,who needs to get a job, and a life... and to stop blaming others for your problems or for problems that don't really exist.... Yes i am a member of the Canadian military...Yes i've used force to stop dictators from slaughtering thier people in the death camps in bosina to the killing fields in Rwanda......And i've done so with the blessing of my country and most of her tax payers...all while guys like you sit in their chairs and do nothing to help or improve thier own situation, except ridacule those that have....I want you to remember this one little thing the next time your whinning ...every right that you have today was paid for in blood by a soldier.

Brainw: Man.... you have a huge axe to grind.... Look, you know as well as i do ...you work you pay taxes..you spend money you pay taxes...you own property or a home you pay taxes, everything in life has taxes attached to it somehow... you get a vote just like everyone here... don't like something then work to change it.... What have you personally done to change this problem that you think exists..... So you've picked one dept within the goverment to blame all your problems on...and have decided just DND is responsable for all your's and the rest of the countries problems. I like to here why? Correct me if i'm wrong but taxes on your home are levied by the town or city and "do not support" DND at all. if not paid yes you are going to lose your home.... Not being able to pay the bank is another way to lose your home....Not being able to mange "your" money. How is that the Gov'ts fault. No i don't know what it is like to be thrown from my home. I ensure that my taxes are paid and all my bills are looked after. You must have lived this first hand again i think this is unfortunate and regardless of what i say you'll be right and i'll be wrong... But i've been to places in the world that your worst day is someones best day of thier lives.... I've seen our tax dollars save lives of thousands of starving people I've seen our tax dollars save hundards of infants lives from starvation, or being sold into slavery... I've seen our tax dollars save thousands of people from being slaughtered in thier homes. If you doubt what i say then trot on down to your local recruiting cell and join up. Walk a mile in my boots.

Brainw: In many areas of Canada women and children are being thrown out of their homes by the government for not being able to meet the ever increasing "debt to society". How can you advocate this in favour of having a "force to be reckond with"? Not being able to pay your taxes, is unfortunate,That being said Canada does have programs and services to ensure that these people do not end up in the street, as you suggest discarded.... On the other hand having a moderate sized military ensures Canada can enforce it foreign policy bringing peace to the areas like Dafur, ethopia, Somolia and feed millions...of staving men,women, and children...you can't do that without a strong,well equiped military... QUOTE DART sat around for a week while they figured out how to get Canadian equipment to the places it was needed. "no" it did not .....it sat around will our gov't took it's time to decide to send it.... And the equipment would sit around for years until it is needed again and by that time it would be too old to be of any use. Makes sense. "No" everything in the Dart is used for training regularly and replaced regularily when it's broken or to old...the Dart uses the same equipment as the Army...New equipment is purchased when the gov't decides....

Fortunata: I think that with the present budget it is perhaps the "only" direction available...one has to remember that 12 bil sounds like alot, but not all that is DND's to spend...only approx 8 bil and out of that and DND pays for every deployment the gov't sends us on....at the end of the day there is only peanuts left...not enough for equipment purchases that are very much needed. Do i agree with the changes "NO" i firmly believe our Gov't has let us all down.... It means that Canada will get the amount of protection it pays for....for it's peace keeping forces only....it should be noted that this new equipment is not available in any numbers that would be needed to protect or provide any defense within Canada....

The reason i asked this question is this "everyone i've talked to outside the military realm has got a very lengthy list for DND to do...however these are the same people who do not support a tax increase"niether do i " but are also not willing to cut any other existing programs. It is very frustrating to most soldiers to hear that most of the country supports us and the work we do...upto a piont...they will not support a major increase in our budget.... Do you think our present Gov't is living upto it's present responsiability's in providing enough internal and external defense need's.... And where would defense needs place on your list of priorties...today knowing DND's current condition.

You'll have to excuse me for not knowing all the forum lingo this is my first post. I'm a soldier in the Canadian Armed forces. This post caught my eye for obivious reasons. I think before you ask what can be done to help DND, We should first ask the people of Canada what is it you want DND to do ? It is really easy to make out a long and well thought out list of things or missions you would like to see DND to do or take on. But to do so we has Canadian tax payers will have to give up something, as money makes the world go round.