Army Guy

Wulf this is another example of why we as a nation should have dealt with this long ago, and let justice be served...as this waiting around has spawned wingnuts such as craig1, as few as they are, they talk tough, but actually making up for lack of something not sure what .... As moonbox put it so politically correct, we do not fear the wingnuts such as craig , we may pity them for thier condition but they do not scare us for it gives them purpose....

Here is a rare article on the CSOR regt, interesting read. legion mag

Once again this type of thinking only proves my piont, just a few posts ago you clearly said that all IED teams be shot , shot alot you said....In Afghan you clearly explain exactly what our snipers would see, thru night vision equipment, they report back thru the chain of command exactly what they saw, a group of people digging a hole on a roadside....and in most case HQ would authorize an egagement...Snipers would then pri each indiv there by threat level ie who has a wpn, explosive, etc etc right down to those that have no wpns....because as a group they are all complicit in the act, and under the conventions and laws are considered a military target to be engaged. normally that means death....Which is a war zone , i get that ....however take the same picture or vid from that same war zone and we have squat according to you not enough to warrent any criminal procedings....i don't get it.... Having this amount of evidence is a rare find, normally we would not have any of this , a vid, or evidence found at the site....because of serveral factors, how do we proscute these terrorist....if they are lucky to survive the attack....what i see happening is soldiers taking these decissions themselfs, Knowing that if it does make it to court nothing will become of it.

This country has been at war for more than 30 years now, Children don't play "war" over here, during my 3 tours i never seen any kids running around with sticks or fake guns playing war.....they live through the real events of war everyday... Life in Afghan is much different than it is in Canada, Comparing our children and thier lives, is 2 completely differnet things altogether, Children over there don't play war, they daily lives are spent looking for food, working, hauling water, occasional you may see them playing soccer, but not often....an empty belly, poor living conditions, poor sanitation, poor health care, sets a grim tone, and fills thier days completely....that and thier customs are very different...for instance once they have passed thier passage to becoming men they are considered adults this is normally done around age 11...this means they will carry out duties reglated to men, defending the village or clan is one of them, so they take up arms at an early age is normal...."why play war, when you'll be doing it soon enough" Purchasing a AK-47 in Afghan is considered a must, like buying your kid a bike in North America...it is used to hunt, and defend your family... IED's are a major problem in Afghan, and NATO takes it deadly serious, it spends alot of it's assets seaching or preventing IED teams from laying thier deadly goods, from Sat, to UAV's to combat air patrols, to soldiers on patrols, or observation teams watching the major routes....anyways you get the idea...to attract the attention of any of these assets all you have to do is be on the roads, once you start adding up a few things such as a pick and shovel NATO starts to prepare combat assets to engage or investigate, once they start digging on the roads it is assumed they are hostile, and engagement is authorized in most cases....That engagement is normally the use of deadly force, such as a helo or fast air attack, or an arty strike My piont is WHY would a group of people Play war knowing full well the consquences of thier actions could end up in thier deaths....they take this risk for one reason only to kill NATO soldiers, not for the adrinaline rush, or for play, but to do thier part in terrorizing NATO, and the people of Afghan. And i say the people because NATO is not thier only targets. Bomb making facilties and people who frequent them are a high priority target for any NATO operation, it has already been proven that the mud hut complex that was destroyed in the fire fight that seen our young Mr Khadr wounded was a Bomb making facility....pictures and vidios were taken of bomb making material and componets found in the ruins. every Afghan civilian knows this....It's published, every patrol that goes out makes this known to the public....Bomb makers in Afghan have a very short life span, they are hunted relentlessly, civilians also know that even knowing of thier existance could bring trouble...so they are often given up or pionted out quickly when asked.... My piont is Mr Khadr was involved is some very serious terrorist actions, which over in Afghan would bring about his death, no questions asked....However now a majority of Canadians want to bring him back to Canada to let him have his day in court....the same courts that require a high degree of evidence or proof to convict...but we quickly forget that in a combat zone collection of edvidence is not even on the priority list, in fact it is not even a requirement, other than taking a few pictures of the scene, used for other inquiries such as battle damage assetments, identy of enemy soldiers killed, damage to civilian assets, etc etc.... It is for this very reason in which he was going to a military court in the first place, where this is clearly understood...if we tried every terrorist caught in a war zone in a civilian court none or very little would be convicted....shit could we even convict Bin Ladin.... As a soldier i often ask myself why is that my ROE's and all the conventions, and inter-national and Canadian law i can take the life and we are fully justified in doing that, and yet we take this same indivdual and place him in our courts and we do not have enough info or evidence for a conviction....Something is wrong here. Each and every Canadian must ask themselfs WHY is it that Omar should not be held accountable for his actions, do we set different standards for young offenders who have commited serious offences. Do we consider terrorist activites a major crime....Why is it we are willing to sweep this under the table.

Just so i'm on the same page....according to your above statement, your saying there is no proof he is Al Qaeda, and yet you state that his father told him to play for the team....at what piont does he become part of the team, after serveral IED operations, how many gun fights must you be in, how many NATO soldiers must he kill....how many home movies do you need to make....

So what is it our nation does with these terrorist, spank them send them back to mom, only to be put on the front lines once more....what a crock of shit, our current laws say it's ok to shoot and kill them by the dozens on the battle field but once caught they are not to be held responsable for thier actions....does that make any sense to anyone....i can kill them but i can't make them responsable for thier actions..... You talk about childrens rights but what of the rights of our soldiers, that have to face and live with the actions created by these child terrorists...YA i know it's our job, to act as targets for these so called children that will have imunity for any action they carry out....do you not think the Taliban won't take advantage of that.....

This has already been covered in great detail already, Mr.Omar Khadr has already been declared a terrorist, of which he is not afforded ANY protection under the genva covention, inter national law or for that matter Canadian law....there is NO special coverage for children under the terrorist act or any laws under the conventions , or inter national law... Hence why the inter national courts have not demanded his release, or demanded he be treated as a Child soldier.... There has been plenty of links providing this info given in the past....One would think that if there was a question about his status that his defence team would have presued it and won his release by now....but last time i checked he is still in gitmo....

Sounds good on paper, but we are having problems not with recruiting itself (lots of kids want to join up)....but actually getting Soldiers and infra struture to train those recruits....and thats becoming a loosing battle just to train enough to keep up with those retiring.....during the 80's there was a great boon of recruits to flush out ranks when we still had close to 90 k within the military.....also keep in mind the avg age of todays soldier is 36 to 38....anyways all those guys now have well past 25 years service and are getting ready to retire, more and more each year....so even though we increase our recruiting efforts we still fall short....Top this off with most combat units now are well under thier peace time TO&E not only with equipment but also personal, this comes into effect when you have to draw SNR NCO's and officers to command this motly crew.... Another problem the CF has mastered the art of logistics moving equipment around the globe, and the north, keeping CFS Alert supplied with basics such as fuel, food, and other supplies is a very costly adventure, everything has to be flown in, including fuel for generators and heat....thousands of gals of fuel are transported by herc once a year for serveral months....it cost more to fly it in than the other fuel is worth.....the entire operation i think is call operation boxtop, and i think it's on the DND web site for further reading....anyway we have the knowledge and expertise in logistics,what we are short on is the funding.... CFS Alert is are most northern operational base and it's normal tour length is 6 months only because there is nothing there other than a military station, located on elsmere Island....stick a family up there for 4 years and your going to have a civil war with the wifes and family members kicking the crap out of military and taking over the base and turning it into Canada's most northern Martha stewart center of excellance.... Normal northern bases such as yellowknife, consider a city by northen standards is pretty sparse, for family related activities , shopping, etc etc....a noraml posting is 2 years there.....and it is considered a hard ship posting....which means the military pays our bonus pay just to entice troops to go...last time i was there was in the early 90's cost me 12 bucks for a hambuger, nearly 4 bucks for a coke.... I guess what i'm driving at, is life is pretty rough up there, and unless you make it more family friendly i don't think we will get those volunteers. and family friendly means major dollars.... Perhaps we all may be better off if they offer the same type of project to civilians vice the military....

Sorry, jerry believe me i would love to see a much larger and better equiped military, but after fixing things with gun tape for over 28 years your hopes and dreams become alittle jaded, and now even the little things now are major achievements... Building up Canada's military complex is a wise investment and a wise choice considering it's size now, but like our military it's in need of an overhaul . building up our north would be a good project whether it needs to be a military project is the question...hiring all those recruits has many advantages and disadvantages but over the next 10 years it would be a wise decission to grow our military to over 100 to 120 k. but going to fast or recruiting to much to soon delutes the entire rank structure and it's quality....we need time to properly train and give them the time to earn the experience they need....before we throw a young 20 year old into the breach who may just hold your grand sons or dauthers life in his or her hands.... with small numbers we can afford and control quality, it becomes a major task when the numbers grow to large to fast.... But i do agree with you this nation does need or better yet screams for a larger military, i am not talking about a massive military but one that could respond to a national emergency and make a difference, or one that could ensure or foreign policy is looked after....then there is the defence of our nation.... If you mean could we stop a determined enemy from entering and claiming large sections of northern Canada....No With most of our Regular force troops tied into the Afghan mission, defence of our north has been delegated down to the reserves.... with some other reg force assets attached....Don't get me wrong i not trying to paint the reserves in a bad light , because that is not my intent, as they are good soldiers and can do the job, i just wanted to show you where the defence of the north sits with our government....one also has to remember that there is only 2 Brigade groups of reg force pers available to do anything in Canada, the other one is in Afghan or training for Afghan....and when you count bayonets thats not very many.....

Like i mentioned earlier we simply do not have the funding or manpower that would allow anything but baby steps in our artic....for now i think we will have to be content with a small contingent of 18's ( 4 or 6 a/c) rotating out of already established northern bases. as for our presence on the ground our Artic Rangers are being expanded, and now include more reg and res soldiers on thier patrols...these patrols are normally long range skidoo patrols, or what we call presence patrols...anything else is extremly hard to sustain, due to the size and weather conditions...i just want to piont out there is atleast 3 northen bases manned 365 days a year/ and operate 24 hours a day, on top of a robust Artic ranger contingent, and the infrequent patrols done by navy and airforce assets... But i will agree with you more needs to be done , and more is in the planning stages but don't look at anything to robust, other than what has been mentioned in the media such as a few armed ice breakers, UAV's, and more modified Aurora's that and more sat coverage. Ever navy guys wet dream, shit even i would like to live to see that day...Our military is a hurting unit right now, and is geared and set up in a survival mode, using most of it's resources and manpower to keep our sole focus afloat (Afghan) that means the Army is getting most of the funds and most of the recruits....i would be only guessing but at our current rate of budget increases and equipment expenditures more than 10 years before we could reset all 3 elements to a level that they could properly defend Canada...what your sugesting is a major chnage not only in how we defend the nation, everything would need to change, all our tactics, our current Naval TO&E, our training, everything....it's one thing to be able to slip into a US Carrier group and function and operate, (* it should be noted that Canada is the only nation to do this) it is a whole new ball of wax to own and operate your own...i think the cost of the latest US carrier is approaching the 6 bil mark, Janes military mag ests just the operating cost for 1 year are over 1 bil, on top of the fact that there is close to 5000 sailors onbaord more than what is in our current navy....and mostof these 5000 are doing jobs and trades that just do not exist in our military, so they would need to start form square one, not a easy task. besides an aircraft Carrier is a major piece of power projection....Most Canadians are having a problem with a ground componet in Afghan, can you only imagine what they would be screaming if we used an A/C carrier and 70 plus a/c to bomb say kosovo.... I guess to sum up , like everyone has already explained cost, manpower, and Canadian attitude is not ready for an Aircraft carrier just yet....I think we should modernize what we have with the best on the market, in the destroyer, frig , and corvette classes, and maybe a couple of those nice shinny American attack subs....

I think we are taking baby steps right now in regards to our north, such as boosting the numbers of the Artic rangers, currently they are our first line of defense and detection, and constant patrol presence. our forward northern bases are being expanded, and troop strenght is being somewhat increased....There is also a large drive to start exercising our combat forces (airforce, naval, and Army) in the area but it is one unforgiving area of operation....Construction has started on the new Artic naval port , but to what level i'm not sure... I think with the current state of our military we are just trying to fill some gapping gaps, with our Artic region recieving a few scraps we need to do more all the way around....All that said it was nice to here about some of the new equipment they are about to purchase, i just hope they buy enough this time... And while i do agree with what you are saying there are many spin offs in regards to building a presence in the north...there is also a concern about militarization of the north or starting a arms race in those areas....there is a couple of articles written by some Russian military and government officals already expressing thier concern of what we have up there already(which is not much).....and thier current efforts to rebuild thier own northern or artic combat forces are or so they say driven by our little force in the artic now....of course thier effort has to dwarf ours... The threat is very real, and many people have already given many examples of those threats....such as Russian Attack and Missle subs operating freely in this zone, Russian and other ex Soviet block countries have already landed military teams that have operated for long periods in Canadas high artic...evidence has been found by our own Artic Rangers of Russian rations, fuel cans, and other equipment....proving they have been there, and can operate in the artic as well or better than we can....besides it is the shortest route into north america....and deserves atleast some military presence be it UAV's, a few F-18's, or more Combat capable troops patroling the waters, or coastline....

I think so, We've been adding to already existing northern bases such as yellowknife etc etc already, basiscally making them fighter friendly, such as hanger space, Ammo bunkers , but i don't think there is any plans to post any more troops on a permanent bases....I know the cons had big plans for a all year round naval port but i have not heard anything except a small article in the Maple leaf awhile back ...DND news mag.. it reported some construction has already began.... The problem with the north is the weather, and it can restrict military operations or make them imposable to carry out...Remember the media a few years back about the Airforce guy getting lost only 500 meters from the airhead in severe fog.... we just don't have the right equipment and what we do have is either old or not enough of it....things such as BV206 (light tracked over snow vehs), or helos that can fly in white out conditions....or have the range to get there.... Years back we had the Airbourne Regt, they where tasked with any nothern operations....with CSOR being expanded maybe they will handle this task...remember just how big our north is having one Bn size unit defend it all ....does not give me a warm and fuzzy....sure most combat units are trained to fight and operate in the winter conditions, but very few know how to survive or operate in the north....we could do it but for a very short period of time.... And if the north becomes as open like they say , i'd say without a presence up there or a force able to atleast contest ownership we might as well give it away....so yes i think we should invest something into our north....as one day it might be the new Alberta, rich in oil, gas and minerals....i think everyone else is preparing, and putting in thier claims now, we should act before we get caught with our pants down... Russia

Sorry i just could not let this one go, should have.... but it's like watching a car wreck.... One would assume that up until now you have had no interest in our own Canadian History, Let alone out military history ....so far pretty typical for a Canadian.... instead you've rely on simply stumbling upon these facts like just now.....Canada has been fighting in Afghan for well over 6 years now and your just clueing into "We are at WAR" today....a fact that most Canadians know by now.... And instead of doing any more research and finding out exactly what our nations soldiers have been doing in your countries name you've made "retarded" comments and pinned a label on them that is ill deserved....And then to say your Uncle is Crap for serving his nation, on a mission approve by the majority of Canadians....well is frankly disrespectful, and a few other discriptive words that come to mind.....words i normally save for young punks, or pukes like yourself who have not one clue on what is going on within thier own country, let alone what thier nation is doing in other parts of the world on thier behalf.... not that you care about anything other than what is happening inside your tiny little world that evolves around you....which shows us another one of your traits.... But i will tell you this, as much as it is going to piss you off....every soldier within our military soldiers on, here in Canada and abroad regardless of mission for each and every Canadian out there , and that includes punks like you....and we do it with pride, we do it because it is our honor to serve our nation and Canadians. even Canadians like you....We do it for many reasons, but one of them is not burying our heads up our asses for over 6 years like you have done... Our nation soldiers rely on Canadians like you to ensure we are not misused or deployed on missions that do not fit Canadian moral values....Thanks for waking the F***K up....maybe we should spark up another bowl of that stuff you've been on.... because it's been a long trip and maybe it's time for you to take another ....atleast until you grow up just alittle , aleast to come to the conclusion that your uncle has sacrificed alot for his country, something i'm sure you know nothing about....it is the men and women like him that built this nation , the same one we have today, and the same one that allows you to burn the flag or disrespect it's soldiers....and although these are rights that they have faught and died for i don't have to like it when when you abuse them...

Anyone that has done any traveling will still tell you Canadians are very fortunite with the freedoms we have, and enjoy in our daily lives... In Canada there is no freedom to keep firearms, your confusing us with our brothers down south.... One of the reasons they are colorful, but regardless of who those person where , they are still responsable for providing the building blocks for this nation....much like during WWI and Quebec empty out it's prisons , to fight in the front line trenches....they still played a role in defining who we are as a nation, and put us on the path to becoming a nation...without them where would we be now....Sitting behind a computer judging thier character i guess.... True enough , but Canada is rich in resources and in the long run does it really matter who actually has ownership, it's not like they can take it home, and these assets can be siezed for a number of reasons.... I think that is the piont we have more in common with the Americans than we think, or would like and while it seems to be a national past time to complain about them, we continue to assimulate thier culture, and the very things we complain about.... It stares you in the face everyday, and yet we say it's not there....or we have to think about it.... Thier like your little brother, they can be a pain in the ass, but in the end they are your little brother, and they do make up what it is to be Canadian like it or not.... Ahh German beer, while true they are fine brewers of that liquid gold....one has no chioce when it is a nations past time....one has to ask why it thier beer has not caught on in Canada.... Yes some of them are cute and meaningless cliches, drawn up to poke fun at our culture or put some humor into the fact we truely have problems indentifying with our selfs....but for most there is no other country we rather be in...or risk our lives defending.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE CANADIAN? I've read alot of the posts hear, and most get it, but not all.... goggle is full of what it means to be Canadian, in fact over 220,000 hits worth....and while alot get it "what it is like" alot i think don't spend enough time on the topic.... So here is "WHAT I THINK IT MEANS TO BE CANADIAN: - It means living in a nation that has more freedoms than most.... - It means having all the basic human rights and more than most nations - It means Having access to oportunties that most do not... - It means living in a diverse french and english enviroment... - It means living in a country with a proud and colorful history - It means living with lots of space. Lots of trees, rocks, lakes. - It means wondering how American you are or how much you've become. - It means really thinking about what it means to be Canadian, - it means wondering what was the fox network thinking when they put the blue icon around the puck... - It means having to learn a different accent and form of the english language after traveling a few hours by car... - It means having to learn french, and thier culture....but it also means thier our french Canadians so back off.... - it means having to wait another 40 years before Toronto wins the cup... - It means having beer with 5 % in it... - It means defending the poutine recipe as a national secret.. While most of my life has revolved around the military, and trying to live up to it's past exploits and those great Canadians that have served before me, the rest of our nation has not been resting on it's laurals, We've as a nation have contributed more than our share to this tiny planet we call earth, and it is something we can be proud of...something we can stand up and say hey thats Canadian..... And while we do spend alot of time wondering around seeking out what it means to be Canadian, it is staring us right in the face....We are the guys that sit in the back of the bus minding our own bussiness, keeping a low profile , not wanting to make any waves....But when something does happen within the world we are there....we toss our quite demeaner away , we take our shirts off and get the job done, not any job, we take on those that are said can't be done.... we are a nation that reaches out with a helping hand, we are a nation that will take a stand to help the little guy....or big Guy.... Don't get me wrong we are far from perfect, we are quick to piont out your faults, we are quick to say we don't want to be Americans, mean while consuming everything that is American to the piont we sometimes forget who we are....we are more liberal than most , not all of us but most....Our sense of justice is a little wrapped as we like to give the advantage to the bad guy....and sometimes forget about the victim... We don't like capitol punishment but we will club a seal, kiss a dead cod, or boil alive a lobster.... To sum up all this, Being Canadian for me is an honor that i proudly wear every day when i don my uniform....my chest fills with pride every time i hear our national athem, or see our flag run up the flag pole....for me i reflex on every great Canadian moment in time, Vimy ridge, Juno beach, Terry fox finishing his run, the Canada arm being used for the first time, the 1976 Canada /Russia hockey game....these and many more is what make me proud to be Canadian...It's what gives me goose bumps when we land after coming home from operations....i'm just glad I can be counted as one of the lucky Canadians to live in our great nation.

Was it not you that had said it did not happen in the first place ? are you now saying it may have happened now ? I don't think you understand my piont...It took the Germany Nazi army army most of the day to produce those same amount of killed and wounded, and that was using every weapon system they had in thier army, including Arty, planes, tanks....Are the Chinese Peoples army that good that it only took them a few hours to kill and wound that many people.... Sorry i don't have access to You tube, can you provide another source please.... Watch the following examples:

When i first read this coffee actually came out my nose as i choked and spit all over my key board ....i can not believe you could down play this incident as you've tried....as some trival matter to be brushed off....shit you and BJRE can not even get your story straight, one says it did'nt happen and the other says it was a minor military crack down..... If this had happened in say toronto every major and minor hospital across the city would have quickly been overwhelmed trying to deal with the dead and wounded......i know one can not compare the size of toronto to any city in China but that is still is enough to perhaps make someone take pause and think.....every hospital.... Put another way during the D Day beach landings at Juno there was just over 1200 cas for the entire day....and serveral hundred killed....that was a dug in enemy using mines, rifles, Machine guns, Mortars, arty, and planes on men as the streamed helpless across open beaches....and they where trying to kill as many as possiable, this went on for the entire day.....and still just over 1200 cas where incured...and those men that where there describe it as being in hell..... Omaha Beach perhaps the worst beach of them all suffer just over 2100 cas for the day....once again this was a very detremined enemy gunning down soldiers as the crossed the beachheach.....trying to kill as many as them as possiable knowing they had to stop them on the beaches, or give the allieds a foot hold in Europe....so they continued to rush into machine gun fire Now with all that in mind, how can anyone sit there and say this was not a massacre unless there has been so many of these types of massacres as to trivalize these numbers....how could the Chinese soldiers accomplish this in mere hours when the Germany army took all day, with machine guns, mortars, arty guns and planes .....perhaps it was because they where unarmed civilians in mass panick, with no training, just trying to flee for thier lifes.... This was not a military crack down seen in any western country....as it's government would have been ripped apart by it's citizens....

I don't buy your theory, and while it may explain why some gays have had hetro relationships, as they where force to conform, it does nothing to explain Bi sexual or expermentation ...which is done by choice not some gene or at birth....but rather increasing the number of people one can have sex with.... I understand what your saying, but thats not the case here is it, it does not say it is the majority of experts just that some have a theory which they believe in.....and like another poster says he has a theory that the moon is made from green cheese...and until it is accepted as fact then i will keep my beliefs.... I'm not doubting thier gayness or even it's existance...just that i do not think it's normal behavior, and i don't like it....which i've clearly stated....you want to be gay fill your boots....want to hold hands and kiss in public fill your boots....but the minute you force me into your world, by taking it to far then i've got the right to ber vocal....as with anything in this world we don't like... I get the impression that you think i carry signs or shout from the roof tops that i hate gays or go out of my way to make thier lifes more difficult....i don't...when asked or confronted i will be honest about it....i don't like the life stlye, that does not make me a homo phobe or what it is you want to call me.... I don't have to tolerate it....i will have to continue to defend my postion as they will continue to defend thiers....

Sorry benny, but bad jokes are not tolerated regardless of whom they are about....discipline measure can be taken....

I'd like to think it is, The evidence you've presented is based on theories, and educated opinions that are not accepted but all experts in the field. there has not been any conclusive evidence found that it is not a choice.... How do we explain Gay's that have had hetro relationships, or Bi sexual persons, or expermentation....In todays world sex is more openly discussed and accepted by society in large, therefore more are willing to make that choice to try having sexual relations with the same sex....for what ever reasons....I find it hard to believe that our world is producing more people with gay/ Bi hormones than before.... when it could be as simple as preference...which boils down to choice. I would not say accepting, rather than tolerating, or preventing discrimination openly....most Gay men remain in the closet for a lack of better term, for thier own protection. Most soldiers will agree that as long as they keep it to themselfs and not brought it to the work place everything is fine, the minute it arrives at the work place then it creates huge problems, normally ending in a transfer... Alot of things have changed in the military since then and are still changing in regards to certain attitudes....but i think it will be serveral years yet before a gay man can introduce himself and tell his platoon he's gay...without some form of discrimination. Sexual misconduct by men and women / hetro or gay will always be a problem, once discovered it means a quick trip home from any mission or operation your on....there has not been a cure for horny as of yet .... yes they've tried but they've all failed, or had side effects so now they just remove both of you from the zone....and when dealing with people that want to be on operations it is a some what effective way of dealing with the problem.... My opinion is not hostile, it is a choice that i've made, and it is founded on my beliefs, religion, and information i've gathered over the years....and is no more misguided than your oinion is .....comparing it white supremacists is going overboard, and as long as i remain within the laws established then i should be as free to express my opinion as Gays have the right to express thiers openly.... I've never said that they where "deviants", just that i do not agree with thier choice of life style... You've presented some evidence , which you've taken as Proof, and yet it is not excepted across the field as 100% fact....so your as guilty as developing your opinion on unfounded claims as i am....as for causing pain to the Gay community....i'm sure they are broken up that some Army guy does not approve of thier life stlye....But that is what makes our Nation what it is today, i don't have to approve of everything....as long as i don't openly break any of the laws both sides can exist together....

the janitor: Sorry about the red neck shot. As much as we joke about the US military it is still a very professional , very well equipped , very well trained armed force. one that could without little problem sieze and hold Canada without much of a problem... Just to put it into context, the US marine corp has more women in it's ranks, Than the enitire Canadian military has troops. there are more police officers in New York city than we have troops ....Our entire military could fit into the Toronto maple gardens and still have thousands of seats left over.... Our entire defence is based on the US and it's military strength. NORAD is a US/Canadian run organization which is US owned and commanded, which surv's space, anything airbourne and soon waterbourne, and coastal....most of our Airforce is tied up one way or another with this defence agreement....Our Navy has ships inbedded in US naval battle groups....between our Naval NATO commitments and few patrols on our coast there is not much left to do anything... Our Army only has 3 Brigade groups just over 6000 troops each....to protect our entire country, this size of force might be enough to conduct a proper defence operations in say PEI, but last time i looked there was much more to Canada than PEI....But then again a full third of that number is involved in Afghan....and our units are so undermanned now it would make you sick..... As for Canada not being a target, think again, our mutual defence agreements say we are very much a target....and the Canadian military would be very much engaged with any enemy trying to drive thru us to get to the US....we act like a little speed bump...

Thanks....

Sticking with the moral issues , there is a big difference in my beliefs, i think being Gay is a life style choice, one that can be changed..being black is for me just a color, and does not for the most part define a person... i don't hate terrorists , i do hate thier tatics and acts that may force me to take a a life.... You've misunderstood me, There are Gays in the military, allowed by law...and protected by law from discrimination....and for the most part keep being gay to themselfs....if they can soldier and do thier jobs fine...no problem but the minute they bring thier life stlye to the job, ie gropping asses in the shower, bragging about thier sexual exploits , or showing an effection towards another soldier, then they are cautioned to cease, just as any hetro person would be .....if it continues they are history moved to another unit or company....regardless of what the laws say....it's done to protect moral within the section or platoon....keep in mind the nature of our job, and the fact our lifes depend upon one another, and if there is a lack of trust then it could prove deadly..... I've not condemned anyone, except exericise my rights , freedom of speach, freedom of choice, freedom of religion....please show me how me saying i dislike gays have in anyways condemned anyone.....But while you are quick to condemn my action, and compare it to racistism or hate thats not what this is about....it's also about Jerrys rights....and you've yet to prove that any comments made so far fall into the hate or racist catogory...

Why is it uncalled for, because i don't like Gay's, or the fact i said so in a public forum....or is it that i am not allow to make those specfic personal chioces ....is there a law that states i must like gays....not that i'am aware of....there is a law about spreading hate , but i've already made that clear that i'm not, all if done is state i don't like Gays....much like i don't like carrots, terrorists, or peace niks.... big diffences from dislike and hate we need to make that clear.... No i don't tolerate or allow the lifestyle in my surroundings....not in my home, not around my family and certainly not on the job....Yes it is my chioce, i don't think it is a normal lifestyle....i don't preach it to anyone , i inform my children all the pros and cons and let them decide...so i do not promote my chioce....until that is my chioce comes under attack, or i'm called out on it....why would it not be my chioce?...

I agree with jerry on this issue, there is a major difference between dislike....and hate...and it does fall under free speach to voice your opinion of all your dislikes as long as it is done tastefully, and respectfully...i don't think jerry has breached that with his opening post.... There is no consistancy in our classifications, what seems to be generally socially acceptable we are not allow to remark upon, such as Gays or thier live stlyes but it is acceptable for instance comment on hate for the taliban , gang violence, or crooked government workers....So why is it OK to comment on these topics with out fear of being pigioned holed. I to dislike the Gay life style, i find it wierd and offensive, and it's not tolerated within my household or my surroundings....i don't hate it, i don't have a web site expressing hate for gays, i don't call gays names in public, nor do i go out of my way to piont this out to every Gay.... It is thier chioce and they are free to carry on with thier lifes, as long as it does not interfer with my life or space....but i don't have to like it....but i certainly don't hate it.... So ya we do need to lighten up.