Army Guy

And in a thousand years time someone will dig up the remains of a nuk wpn and it will have printed on the inside MADE IN THE USA.....and some tour guide will cleverly piont out this chunk of glass we are standing on once was called the nation of Iran....

Your talking to a guy who has done a few tours in this very area, albiet many years ago, but nothing has changed here, not the people, not the tactics, nothing....And i'm not taking one side or the other trust me when i say i seen both sides do exactly the same thing.....what i refuse to do is pin the blame on just one side here....in your case the Israelis....bad evil little bastards....but if you wanted to be taken seriously you should post all the shit that has happened from all sides of the conflict.... This conflict will stop when one of 3 things happen Israel or palistine cease to exist or the other middle east countries come to grips that Israel is not going any where....and learn to live with each other....and every body knows that is not going to happen...so 100 years from now a new group of psoters will be having the same argument....

How do you explain a 5 star restaurant recently opened up with it's owner manging to pour in 1.1 million US dollars into this new bussness venture in the middle of a "declared food crisses"....the owner is either retarded, or lacks any bussiness sense....unless thier is a customer base to support this new venture.... Lets get sensiable here a severe food crises is not what we are seeing here not when so many othr nations in the world face real food crises...there may be a shortage And the new oylimpic size pool in a city with severe water shortages come on....can you explain that... So it's not that i jumped on the band wagon....These people and thier terrorist masters are very skilled at bending the media and people like yourself into thinking they are the victims here....open your eyes...on does not open a massive pool in a water crisies....nor do they open 5 star restaurants....

Honestly do you think that the other 53,000 links provided by goggle are all from the same tape....have you check any of them....

double post.

I was doing some checking on good restaurants in gaza and found a few. in the travel section ..... what i found interesting was this restaurant comments... All of this and a severe food crises going on, is the ad full of shit, or what gives.... When i was putting myself through school i was "food insecure, thank god for Kraft dinner.... Read more: http://www.financialpost.com/todays-paper/Policy+under+siege+agencies+Israel+Gaza+blockade+worsening+conditions/3115315/story.html#ixzz0qIEy2IS9 The Financial Post is now on Facebook. Join our fan community today. My linkwww.lonelyplanet.com/ Water crises....but enough to fill this olypic size pool in gaza .....not enough to drink but enough to swim in.... My linkspktruth2power.

Hamas using amb for transport My linkwww.al-ghoul.com/grand_theft_auto.htm My link Slightly above 200 hamas tricks of the trade My link

Here's a good site for cost comparisons with other fighters. My linkhttp://www.defense-"]My link[/url]

When was the last time a prof had to order one of his students to do something that might get them killed.

Leave it to the navy, even today homo sexual behavior is frown upon, although there is new regualtions to make us a kinder,more gentler military it is not fully excepted and relationships between same sex partners is not excepted..but this is not just a military problem but on the effects the entire country...

I think by now most Canadians will agree that a major investment is required to keep our military relevent in todays world. That investment is coming due now, we've put it off for to long , that investment has already started , and still had a long way to go. What i find alittle disturbing is how we the voters are pinning this purchase on the governing party of the day. It was after all past governments that made the decision to cut back on the military to pay off some of our debt, and we all knew that this decission had a cost, we would have to defer investing in our military until a later date...I, like the rest of you know that today we are in worse condition than yester year. and it is not the best time to be spending vast amounts of money... However if we don't invest now, our military will have to shelf some capabilities....which ones... By know means i'm i an expert on airforce equipment, but during my advanced leadership course we did a paper up on just this topic, and discussed it to great length, all 3 elements of the forces were represented and i was very interesting on the feed back we recieved. Our current CF-18 were purchased in 1982, and where state of the art when purchased,they have been thru a refit program and will extend them until 2017, which when you take a look at how fast our purchase system works, and how everything fits in that date is right around the corner... We've already spent 150 mil on the F-35 program, to become a tier i partner, it was a program designed to involve those interested in a new fighter, to invest in the R&D costs to help keep costs down...this investment does not mean we are going to purchase the F-35 but we will have economical benifits via some Canadian companies will be involved in the manufacture of parts and componets, plus have access to some of the tech. I also want to make a note that the 9 bil includes not just the aircraft but a 20 year maint plan, training and parts...on the other hand this aircraft was touted as only going to cost 52 mil a copy (2003) est, and is now est at well over 140 mil a copy and expected to rise to over 200 mil a plane. So our 9 bil is perhaps a little low and may grow as cost increase... This 9 bil is going to be a long term savings program, like most of our large purchases, and is not going to come out of the budget in one large chunk. DND has alotted approx 2.5 bil a year for equipment purchases unless more cuts are made. The airforce have been studing this problem for years, infact it has been looking very close at the UCAV (unmanned fighter) option and what Punk has suggested will come to fruit in the next 10 to 15 years even as we speak the US airforce has developed serveral proto types the X 45, and a newer version just released about a month ago...although the tech is just new it is growing rapidily, but is not at the piont where it can proform as well as a Manned fighter...but like i said it is a rapidly growing field... This is why the Airforce has decided to purchase another manned fighter, to act as a bridge until the UCAV becomes reality... Our current F-18 perform dozens of tasks for Canadians every day, some have been already described here, from interception missions not only of Russian aircraft, but any aircraft not auth to be in our airspace, to tracking and intercepting drug and other illigal traffic, to letting the Russians know we can still respond to Cold war threats. and while not deployed in Afghan other nations provide valuable air support...any one on the ground will tell you fast air can sometime mean life and death...a fighter takes off from Kav once every min...NATO has serveral major airbase in Afghan...that is alot of jets... So to say they are not needed is like saying your car really does not need rubber tires... But Afghan is not the only mission in town, or the only mission Canadian citizens expect from our forces...The reality is the world is a very unstable place with over 120 conflicts raging world wide, and others just a spark away....This tech equipment takes months to build a single copy, so the next major conflict will be come as you are...that being most of the rougue nations today do have very modern aircraft, thanks to Russia and Chinas liberal military contracts....and our CF-18 while still a good aircraft is behind the tech curve...one would think that if we where going to send our troops into battle we would want to give them every edge we could...All one has to do is look at nations like most of the Middle eastern countries ,India, Pakistan, the Koreas, and what they have in thier inventory....

Gaza does have a water source, over usage will soon kill it, there has also been Aid projects to help with this problem , of course some of the american construction workers were killed putting that on hold go figure. My linkdissidentvoice.org/Oct05/ My linkwww.usaid.gov/wbg/

All i read across the media is Starving Palistinians, my question is this how can one be starving and then make the top 10 in obesity for men and women in the world....can someone explain this to me... My linkbarenakedislam.wordpress.com My linkwww.israeltoday.co.il/default.

Was it, seeing how the main caostal hyway runs thru it, militarily it makes sense to deny this area to any future military build up well with Isreal.,not to mention it was in limbo just after the war...As for not making Isreal any safer, the Palestinians are not going any where any time soon, so regardless of what happened they will always remain a problem. According to Isrealis military reports 2 or more wpns shipments have already been siezed, because of the blockaid. as for the why other items are on the list i have no idea , it does certainly look like a collective punishment deal being dealt out to the palestinian people....just like the lobby opf rockets is over the border a collective punishment on the Isrealis people....And while illigal according to the Genva convention, really who cares, other than a few on these boards who really cares...is it a main topic at the UN which nations have taken up the fight in the UN to have it all stopped? But while we are at it, why has Egypt not been mentioned in all this talk of border closures or restricted items...., i mean without Egypt consent and active role goods could simple be re routed thru Egypt and into Gaza....but as far as my research has shown both borders are closed...and yet no mention on those damn Egyptians.....and nobody is trying to bring in ships into thru Egyptian waters why is that... The strangling of the economy will stop when the rockets and violence stops...the Palestinians have control over thier own destiny....but lets face it nothing economical will even have a chance to start until the violence stops...it's a two way street..both Israel and palistine need to work together... Regardless of how it pays out for Israel, they can not afford to loss one inch to her enemies, or she will be swept out to sea...the entire region is full of hate, and it is not going to change in this or the next generation if one side shows weakeness the others will try to capitalize on it.... Like i said Israel has no chioce all the other nations in the region have washed thier hands of it, and the palestinians are not going any where....The Gaza strip is not occupied in the snese Israelis troops are running the show, It is only considered occupied because Israel controls thier air, wand water space and most of the over land borders...but how does the nation of Israel which prime responsiability is to defend it's own citizens deal with a small newly formed nation of Palistine with no control over its population thats main focus in life is to destroy the very nation it is dependant on for it's survival.... While that may be true , french and Dutch anti terrorists units are still reporting the same thing. and all sides still maintain that the IHH has close ties in supporting Hamas via funding and Wpns, and other activities. I see it as a perfectly planned operation which completed it's tasking and deserves a gold star...they knew exactly how the israelis would react, and when they did not all it took was a few very roudy radical muslims.... Not going to happen because when the first rocket flys who are both sides going to blame it on....thats right whom ever is running the blockade...as for turks not a good idea....But since they are so interested in doing the job and have agreed to escort an aid ship they have already picked up the ball..and entered the game...and while the Israelis navy is one of thier weakest arms, i would not want to test them over thier resolve to keep ships out of Gaza....I would not doubt that the US pres is making calls to all nations right now trying to head this thing off....

The rules have been in place as long as our military has been co ed, Military romances are a common thing dispite the rules and regulations, both parties are well aware of the consquences and risk everything for sex, and partnership.. As for them being outdated or silly they actually do serve alot our purposes, other than the obvious ones...currently there are thousands of military personal in Khandar, from dozens of nations from around the globe each with very similar rules, and regulations...Most of these soldiers are there in country for atleast 6 mths or more...most already have established relations back home, the last thing you want is to be constantly reminded of those relations put on hold while you serve your country, couples kissing, holding hands, or making love in the next tent...makes you miss your love ones all that much more , it distracts the soldier, and in a combat zone a distracted soldier is a danger... The Military goes to great length to ensure couples, family members are not posted to the same unit or under the same chain of command. Someone here said it would "hopefully only enhance your dedication and care taken in performance of duties and those who you are responsible for" it has been proven over hundrds of wars and engagements that it does not enhance but once again distracts or allows them to show favor to those involved....and would be an excellent way to sow distrust among'st your command...which is critical when commanding troops to have there complete trust .....these are the people you have to give orders to in which may cost them their lives....could you order your wife, son, daugter to thier deaths....and while this is not WWI and trench warfare, every time a soldier leaves the wire there is a good chance of having contact with the bad guys...lossing a soldier under your command is davasting lossing one of your relations would over whelm any commander....and lets not forget, most of these commanders have enough firepower at thier disposal to level small countries....more than enough to get revenge, and give our nation a huge inter national incident....And this guy had an entire Canadian contingent plus an American atts and dets...

Everyone involved in this post is involved in this football game including yourself... Spell it out for me what significant mistake has isreal made, the blockade, the raid , what exactly ? If you mean a debacle in the terms the raid ended in shambles then yes...if you mean debacle in the terms of that nation enforcing a blockaid then no.... As for knowing about the conflict in general i spent a couple of tours in EL arish, not far from Gaza, and Golan hieghts, Syrian border. I don't claim to be an expert, but i've seen some of these mishaps in person, and they are blown out of proportion by both sides. Lets just say there is no Al Quada conection, does that give the IHH a glowing record or are they involved in terrorist activities to include funding and arming groups such as HAMAS....and if they are what is thier motivation to this whole event, what are they getting out of it...dont tell me they are interested in getting supplies and goods into Gaza.... Lets try the rescue of Canadian service personal and equipment being held for ransom, by some ships company for wages or something stupid like that...in was in the news a few years back....and yes SPec ops and Navy persons actually got lowered onto the deck one at a time by the rescue winch a very slow process.... Kind of head to do when you've been ordered to use non lethal force...hence the paint ball guns...but normally yes the ship the commandos where on would disable the ship if it refused to stop...by either shots across the bow, or just below the water line... Bullshit...everyones answer is call the UN in, who's got troops for the UN everyone is tapped out... here is a novel idea, lets stop lobbing rockets from gaza....stop the cycle of violence...

no siminition is only brought out for those rare occasions....most of the time we use blank....and sometimes like you yell buget cut, try that on automatic....

Your right it is a scandal.....from your quote.... It was all planned including the loss of life it was planned by the IHH....they knew exactly how the isrealis would react.....if pushed....all they needed to do the pushing was a few radical muslims which they already had....The only problem here here is you've fallen into the same trap....

Your right it is a scandal.....from your quote.... It was all planned including the loss of life it was planned by the IHH....they knew exactly how the isrealis would react.....if pushed....all they needed to do the pushing was a few radical muslims which they already had....The only problem here here is you've fallen into the same trap....

Actually they are not, all paintball guns are created equal, , you can adjust the amount of presure or speed the ball is ejected but for the most part they are equal, with exception of the ball, most security agencies use a ball filled with small amount of C/S agent or tear gas crystals.... Ya it smarts, but it does get your attention, and it smarts enough to let you know you don't want to many more of them....so you stop what your doing, and become cooperative....it's called non lethal force...considering the alternative is a live round.....let me tell you those really smart...for days and weeks later... The military has a paintball called Siminition it's a blank round with a paint ball head, get tagged by one of those little suckers and you'll leave with a massive bruise and skin almost broken.., and since our rifles come in fully auto it can get very painful ..only we don't use it for non lethel force but only in our training....

This thread has nothing to do with replying to the Israeli navy about the raid on the flotilla....It should read more like "Another excuse found to slam Israel and it's tactics used on those POOR POOR Palestinian SOB's.....And now they have sunk the hook deeper into those guliable enough to buy into this garbage... Most papers are listing those killed as pro-Palestinian activists, But are they just activists or something more....well most of the event event was organized and paid for by the IHH (including the purchase of 3 of the ships used in the flotilla ....who are more than just activists....in fact they are linked to some of the most wanted terrorist organizations in the world...which includes Al-Qaeda, everyone knows Al Qaeda, our nations soldiers are currently running these bastards down in Afghanistan....in fact the IHH is heavily involved in funding Hama's ....Can't be this was a relief operation "sure it was" wink wink My linkwww.terrorism-info.org.il/ So the night before the IHH hold a large party, wiping up even the mildest activist....wiping them so much that serveral of the surviving families spouses that where interviewed have quoted that thier husbands wanted nothing more than to become a martyr...one has to ask on a humanitarian mission becoming a martyr....But the IHH had something different in mind all along...it had one clear goal in mind...and it did it with the grace of a dancer...and for you guys already long hooked by these masters of the media ...well you took this ball and ran with it...in fact some of you are still running.... The IHH had calculated everything, they had all the key ingrediants ...Some radical muslims....some actual peaceniks from the west....including some jewish grandmothers...Nice touch...they also had Israel as they already knew exactly how they would react....infact they even went as far as to let them know thier intentions "to run the blockade" not only israel but they let the world know...so everyone would be watching as Israel took down the ships.... wether the block aid is legal or not....Something that should have been corrected by now, i mean it's almost 5 years now...anyways, what choice does Isreal have they are at war with Hamas everything coming and going into the country has to be searched for wpns, ammo and war materials. If they don't they might as well open the borders .....or armed them themselfs.... Canadian Navy boards ships all the time in inter national waters....they do it well armed, not with Non lethel means but rather old fashion auto matic wpns and bullets...and i can tell you this if any of those ships crew had attacked any Canadian sailor, in the fachion they attacked the Isrealis commando's there would be no doubt the same or greater death toll....and for those that have quoted they were just defending themselfs.... try it next time your out at sea, defend yourself again'st a RCMP or Naval borading party...see if you don't get a round in the forehead....Anyone with half a clue, would put thier hands up and cooperated with the boarding party....But that was not the plan was it...no it was to provoke the commandos into shooting , it was to make a few Mytyrs , it was to carry out a carfully laid out plan to stir inter national emotions....and they suceeded....and judging by the amount of hook biters in this crowd i'd say it was a home run....

Dave On: My orginal piont was you can or could swear allegiance to almost anything, if our goal was only to depoliticize the process. g_bambino: Do you have to know every person i swear allegiance to, it can not be a broad based group such as every Canadian citizen. I mean i do know who the Queen is , i know her name, but i've never met her,....and while we are here does the Queen take an oath, i'm sure she does, is it to her subjects, or the crown, or the state if so does she know any of us. How many times has the law come into play when taking an oath, or for that matter breaking it. As Wyle pionted out there is alot of professions whom take oaths , and alot of them have been broken and yet and perhaps i'm wrong but i don't recall anyone being charged for it. So really it is a formal cereimony that has tanscended into a meaniless act in regards to the law. And yet there is dozens of countries that do not have a Qeen or any other form of head of state and they seem to get along just fine. Don't get me wrong here i am perfectly fine with haveing the Queen as our figure head of state i was suggesting that it could be inter changed and would have little effect on how we do bussiness today. As for having our armed forces controled by just one man or one politician most nations in the world today are in that state now. US Pres is the commander and chief, however within thier constitution there are rules and laws he must follow, why not Canada ? Alot of Nations have even lesser controls on what thier ruler can or can not do with it's military....

I'd like to think the people are more than just a concept, with out them there would be no nation, no history no soul or character. And in my case as a soldier i'd like to think there is a un written contract between me and the people, a soldier offers his services to the people,and the people agree to provide him with the tools to do the job, to ensure his very life is not wasted on some wannbe mission dreamt up by some politician to score pionts globally or internally....So it's more than just a concept. but something tanglable. As for oath to the Queen why not to the government of Canada such as what the US does, make the PM the commander and chief, or to the people of Canada.

And technically your right, the geography is an inamimate object, however i think when i describe Canada as a nation,a coutry i tend to think of it's people, it's history, the good the bad and the ugly, which brings life to it, making it a living breathing thing, with a sole and character which defines who we are I feel totally different, more due to the fact that patriotism is a major part of my life, as a soldier it has to be, we thrive on ceremonies and pageantry, not to feel canadian but rather pay homage to a truely great nation, and all who had a part in building it into what it is today. Our nations flag identifies who we are , not only on the battlefield but anywhere we vist,it sends a clear msg to others that we are from Canada, WE ARE CANADIAN. we wear it with pride on our shoulder, Everything we do in the military is full of ceremony and pageantry from signing up and going to recruit school, to being escorted back to Canada with our nations flag draped over our coffin...Our national athem also holds the same speacial meaning to us everytime i hear it my chest swells with pride, i stand taller, knowing that i am a member of the best country in the damn world...I think it is in all of us, tell me every Canadian does not feel the same way when our team Canada hockey team takes the ice, or they stand up to recieve the gold..... I think this ceremony and pageantry is a way of remembering all those Canadians that built this great nation we live in...our way of saying thanks... How is our country better, no other can offer the diversity that Cananda does from the cliffs in NFLD to the Rocky mountains in the west from the frozen north to the southern tip of Ont , our vast natural resources, our diverse people, our history, we cover it all, i don't want to sound like a beer commercial but i've traveled to well over 50 other nations, ok most where war torn shit holes but not all and i'm always glad when that aircraft touches down in Canada....we rock, and are second to none, we are the best at what we do, nobody can touch that....

Not my words but yours. My piont was that the Criminal elements will always find away around the laws to make a profit.