Army Guy

I used one of the graphs from your source, which states in 1999 there was 6,121,992 smokers, and in 2010 some 10 years later, and massive amounts of tax added there are 4,910,510 a reduction of only 1.2 million . Cigerettes went from being 5.25 dollars a pack in 1998 to 10.10 a pack in 2010, to 15.20 a pack today ( NB pricing) most of that is taxes, avg cost to manufacture 25 cigs in NB today is 3.25....leaving 11.95 in taxes.....So yes there was a reduction in the total numbers of people who quit smoking, but today that represents only 15 % of the over all smokers from 10 years ago....but to get that result taxes went up 500 times more than the actual product costs. Yes we did see a reduction in smokers....but overall not the numbers we expected....even when we charged 500 times in taxes than the product was worth is this what we are facing with fossil fuels..... I ask because in most rural areas of the country there are no public transit, distances to work are to far to walk or take a bike, so they rely on fossil fuels to get back and forth to work , or just plain live....Do you think these guys will support carbon taxes.....sure we may get a small check in the mail if our province goes that route, but in reality we are going to be paying more at the pumps, at the food stores, for most services, for our electrical power, the list effects almost everything.....How are canadians who are just making it by today going to pay for this Carbon reduction plan. they won't be, and for all this pain and suffering is it going to really solve Canada's carbon reduction plans.....it might if all this tax was going to be used for R&D of renewable energy, or offset the cost of solar, thermal heating to the public the list goes on forever.......But has that happened in BC....have these programs been bought and paid for by Carbon taxes in BC...yes or no, if yes please provide a source.... 1999 2010 Current Smokers 6,121,992 25 4,910,520 17 All this is going to do is drive people to cheaper alt, such as fire wood, which produces more carbon than fossil fuels do..... SO how is all of this going to benefit Canada in today's economy again....

Could you please provide a source for your smoking numbers, thank you. Is there an education portion of this tax ? i must have missed that class, perhaps you can point to where all that info is....once again what renewables are you talking about, which ones will be ready shortly to take over from fossil fuels ? shit we are just getting off coal....how long is that going to take...... What is the government doing about education, renewables, technology, ....DO they use any of these taxes that are collected under carbon taxes to pay or subsidize any of the topics you mention....and if so can you provide a source. maybe you can start with BC as it has had a carbon tax for years, perhaps give us an incite to what is in store for the rest of us....Or is it just a tax being collected because it can be ? One last question is this carbon taxes going to benifit Canada some how and if so How?

It's a terrible plan, but because it is the liberals plan, it has to be celebrated, and cheered on like it was some source of magic.....Come on kids in high school could do better.....How much imagination did it take to say "everyone will pay this tax" the rest is up to the provinces to figure out......we are trying to meet our target goal of carbon emissions that we agreed to at the UN right.....by what year again ? But it is just a tax, one that is collected under the carbon reduction project.....but it can be used for anything the provinces want....return a little to the tax payers, or spend it like a mad man on anything.....Has any province invested taxes collected under carbon tax theme, into R&D into clean energy, further reductions into carbon areas.....anything....any one....

That's not what i said....reducing our nations reliance on coal is a good thing. provided it is done the right way. and not on the backs of just consumers...That being said do you honestly think that Canada's reductions is going to make a difference in the global carbon foot print....when countries such as the USA reverse there stance on Coal, and perhaps the entire carbon pricing project ? I mean trump has just gotten started, give a week or two to get rolling... or when other nations who can not afford to get rid of coal power continue to use and even expand it's usage. And now our government has decided that every province will have a carbon tax in place by 2018....that is the end of the federal governments involvement, Why do we need a carbon tax ? A tax that the federal government has said , each province can do with this tax what ever it wants......give MP's a raise, pay for new projects like new roads, or infra structure that depends on fossil fuels....NO WHERE does it say it has to go to R&D of clean energy sources, reducing costs of clean energy , such as solar , heat pumps,electrical cars, buses, or transport trucks....Nor does it include any tough new laws on environmental polluters. NO the liberals have put forth their own direction to meet carbon levels set within the UN, we will make fuel expensive to limit usage....Much like tobacco, we will tax the shit out of it, hoping one day everyone will quit....How did that work out, Yes a huge reduction in the amount , but there is still millions that still smoke and will forever.... If the liberals were serious about climate change, they would have come out with a plan that has more than "everyone will pay this tax", after that we don't care what you do......Maybe one that has participation at all levels of the nation. not just one that will be passed on to the consumer....and not just on fossil fuels, everything that fossil fuels touches or assists with, our food, cloths, shelter, services all of it.....will be taxed. But then again that would require leadership, some thought, some actual work put into it.

So your saying this result was a direct result of Quebec's carbon Taxes, That Quebec assisted the company with grants to accomplish this, or was it the company that started this program with it's own funding ?. or because of existing laws already put in place.The reason i ask is quebec would be one of the few provinces that will use funding from its carbon tax program to invest in reduction measures. the rest are offering small checks, or putting the funding towards something else...... And yet was it not Quebec that dumped bils of liters of raw human waste into our waterways....sounds like an excellent carbon reduction plan, maybe they could use their share of the carbon taxes to fix that problem..... and save Ontario from swimming in Quebecs shit.....

The best part about it all is , they the government has twisted everything around so you , and the rest of Canadians think it is a good idea.....we pay these taxes, which will add up pretty quick....and if your good, they'll send you a little gift at the end of the year.....but it will not be anything worth what you have already paid into this tax scheme. And here is the good part.....they don't even have to send you a check if they don't want to.... and there is nothing in writting to say they even have to use the profits on clean energy, or tech, or reducing our carbon foot print.....there all catch words to make you feel good about paying more tax... Has the price of renewable energy gone done in your province....Has there been any significant investment in renewable energy in your province, Are there major tax breaks for renewable energy companies , offsets for R&D......Has anyone brought forward a replacement for fossil fuels that does not cost an arm and a leg......and yet we are expected to make the transfer in 2030, to what we don't know ? but we will continue to over price fossil fuels until no one uses them.....sounds like half a plan to me....

Yes we will get lower emissions, because it will give "some" but "not" all a pause in their decision process to use fossil fuels or take public transit etc.....because of it's price.... You are quoted saying there are incentives to invest more into cleaner tech for industries, that their are incentives to move towards renewable energy......where are they ?what provinces ? Most provinces only offer a tax rebate in the form of giving a small portion back to the tax payers.....To all tax payers, regardless of how much tax you have paid. Each province is free to do what ever it wishes with this tax money, The federal Government has set very little rules down on the subject asides from everyone will be subjected to the tax....Now if asll this tax was going towards clean energy, or reducing the prices of this clean energy....then we might have a tool to fight our carbon levels.....right now we just have another tax.....which can be used for anything, to increase provincial government spending, Health care, education, etc. The US is not stepping back from coal, President trump has already signed an executive order, bringing coal back in....and there is more to come in regards to their carbon reduction, but why does a nation bring back in coal if it is not ready to sacrifice other carbon pricing projects..... SO i'll ask again what will this tax accomplish in regards to our carbon foot print ?

Well lets start with the extra tax money your going to pay, on basically everything products, and services that fossil fuels have touched, or part of. This new tax does nothing in regards to lowering Carbon in our environment. It is not being used to pay for governmental projects to upgrade our public infra structure, in ways such as solar, thermal heat, any of the new environmental tech.....its not being used to subsidize this tech for the public to purchase, in fact it is not being used to do anything except perhaps give you back a small check back at the end of the year....not even close to what you invested into this new tax....What i does do is perhaps give you pause not to use your fossil fuels as much.... I live in the country, no buses, over 20 kms to work or anything in town....so i will be driving either way, i heat my home nothing changes for me.....except it is going to cost me more...for everything... The US has already announced it is going to be bringing back coal.....so much for carbon taxes....while we pay more for everything....US products will be that much more cheaper.....so Canadian products will lose out on the global stage, or at least trading in the US. No one knows what the new NAFTA is going to look like, but it is going to change, and i'm betting its not all going to be good. SO what are we going to gain with these taxes ?....

I agree the Carbon taxes are a sham, and some how most Canadians bought into all of it.....we are going to lose on this carbon pricing many times over, first the taxes on fossil fuels, second the carbon tax attached to everything else in and out of our lives that need fossil fuels to deliver, cultivate, pick/plant, harvest...not to mention all the services that will also be taxed.....like the guy in Alberta had carbon tax added to his cremation of his mother....don't worry there is also carbon taxes added to a regular funeral as well. all these taxes are not bringing our products closer to US prices.....but driving ours up.....Trump is not adding Carbon taxes, in fact he is reversing that whole process, and bringing coal back....

Not in the Canadian Military, they can't...

No the fact remains that the opposition where playing with a political football, , with one objective to delay this project, and keep the F-35 from being purchased.....you can talk all you want about rights, But when you boil it down, Liberals and NDP along with the cons....are responsible for this project being stalled, now and for the near future.... They are responsible for Canadians forced to fly in jets well over 30 years old.....One day soon someone will have the balls to purchases something, hopefully it will be a fighter that is 5 th generation.....but as we have seen in the past, they will buy something that will just barely do the job...

Thanks Derek, Impact, all the sources and posts are in the other F-35 topic. it should make an good read.

You just imply it. Funny how that works, education, and position are keys to working your way up the corporate ladder, not all of us wanted the same path up the corporate ladder,which is why their are so many career paths...if your chosen career path dies out or not for you change your path......lots of people are doing it, it takes hard work and dedication to earning a higher wage or changing a career path.... So it has been proven it can be done, all without the assistance of the government. But now your talking about the gross disparity in wages, its not fair...... Before i go on are you suggesting we all be paid the same, that say a specialist at NASA should make the same as the kid at Mac Donalds. or are you saying Nobody deserves the wages current CEO make.

I Current fleet of F-18's can and are meeting all obligations according to DND, but then again what do they know.....the government would know more than the guys operating them....As to an open competition, i wonder if the guys at DND know , since the project current sits at what 4 or 5....due to past and current government putting the project on hold....until election has been sorted out..still waiting....but atlas liberals decide to force an interim aircraft through instead, stating that Our current CF-18 aircraft no longer meet all our defense agreements, days later DND responds with Yes the will, out until 2025 in fact...

are you saying that the CEO were handed their jobs on a silver platter, or did they have to earn those positions.....

Your right Smallc, there are no camps, but lots of prisons, you know the type of prisons i'm talking about some of the more famous were located in Iraq thanks to Sadams kids, not to mention Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, alot of other stans.....infact most muslim countries have prisons know to do a little torture now and then, just to keep the trade going you know....or there is the just driving you out to the desert thing....so no camps per say, but institutions where the same result is given, death....by torture... or perhaps you are saying Muslims do not live in fear....over what might happen to them if they speak out, maybe draw a cartoon of allah, burn the koran in the streets, or denounce the muslim religion all together, in public....perhaps your wife goes out without a male escort, or she tells someone you cheated on her.....

WOW, i'm stepping away from the chain saw....nobody is going to cut down your tree sir....move along people nothing to see here, just another liberal melt down....

So what do we call them, i mean those forced to work for the Nazi machine, out of shear survival, or fear of being sent to a camp......what do we call them....what do we call them when they where forced to take part in the death camps, what do we call them when they told on their neibours for some nazi crime....what do we call them when they worked in the factories producing german war materials....what do we call them when they turned thier backs on all the crimes that german nazi party committed. Are you saying Canada is not free to chose what people come into Canada ? Have we always picked small groups from every nationality available in the world...every year...I can remember a time when nobody wanted Jews and were very vocal about it....i get it things have changed, since then...i mean do you think it would even be questioned.....Hey why is Canada not bringing in any people from the middle east.....think it would come up in the UN..... .

Come on Squid at least put on the crocodile tears outfit for the readers....maybe put up some pictures of teen moms routing through garbage cans..... dirty little kids dressed in rags, tagging along in the back ground..... "Parents" should be responsible for their kids bad choices not the tax payers, and if they refuse, TFB.....we already have a welfare system in place, we don't need two of them. Can't find work move, upgrade your education, work two jobs, if you do nothing to change your situation then nothing will change...........Of course Squid is now going to tell us of all the Liberal generated programs coming out shortly.....oh wait....so it is not just a conservative approach is it.....in fact liberals care about as much as we do....not to much.... I'm sure the average Canadian would be thrilled to hear we are picking up the tab for someones poor choices. And from the sounds of it not a cheap tab either.....Instead of a new welfare system why not offer free education, so there would not be any excuses, to many people are abusing the current welfare system we have, can't wait to see the new one , pay these people even more money for doing nothing.... I've got neighbors that do that very thing, take advantage of the welfare system, the whole damn family lives under one roof all of them are on in, shit there is even boy friends and girl friends all under the same roof.....Dad just bought a new dodge ram, to tow his 30 foot camper trailer he bought last year ......He's never worked since high school, he's 55 years old....tell me as tax payers why should we be paying for his fat ass....because he chooses to stay home, and collect his money for nothing.... I'm i jealous , i'd be lying if i told you no, i just have to much pride to take money i did not earn.....there is a lot of people taking advantage of the system, and yes it pisses me off....when a capable, healthy person refuses to help themselves, because of hand outs...Now i get there are families out there that do need this help...but to be on it for 38 years and brag about it to all his neighbors....well sir puts it all into a whole new category.....

I to thought O' leary was our man for the job, and now having second thoughts. Again it has to do with recent statements. Not sure if the military would get any support from him, as deficit reduction would be a key stone block for them, which would mean no additional spending..no frills for anyone....

I think you said it all in the first line, you brought it up, and had convinced yourself that screening would not work....it's very clear in your posts, and somehow you find it surprising on how it turned out.... Maybe your right screening for values is not worth it....but in light of what we did learn, through this discussion is our immigration system is far from perfect, maybe even flawed or broken.....and nobody has the will to fix it....not the cons, not the libs, not the NDP.....if not them who then....only one that is talking about it is who again.....Kellie leitch..oh and Argus ( i'm voting for you buddy).....or we can swipe another problem under the carpet, and do the Canadian thing, bitch about it.....

We already had this discussion, when some one asked if they believed all germans were Nazi's....at the start of the war their was plenty of germans that did not believe in the Nazi movement...some where arrested, sent to prisons, or to their deaths, or fled germany....."i can not live under this regime", as the war progressed most germans were afraid not to be Nazi's trying not to suffer the same fate as the others , by mid war almost all germans was supporting german Nazi cause be it working in the factories, force conscription into the services, etc etc.....while some kept their hands clean, or at least blood free, alot took their roles in the movement seriously. One could substute the term Nazi's for Muslims in a lot of muslim countries, one could say not all muslims are bad, but how many muslims fear for their lives and are forced to lived they way they do, to live their lives according to the law of the land is pure survival...where public stonings are common, as well as honor killings, beating of women, cutting hands off of thieves, the list goes on and on.....and those good muslims we talk about do nothing about it, they take no action, nor talk about it .... they life in fear..... they are just as guilty as those that take part in those activities, everyone has choices, everyone is judged by the choices they make...Not that we are perfect, but i doubt many Canadians have taken part in a stoning,or cut the hands off a thief, or had their wifes killed because YOU cheated on her..... So why not just gloss over that region and move on to the next region, where morals and values are some what similar to ours.

Thats simple, nobody knows of any existing one, that would work in this situation, I did say with over 40 million people in this country you think that one could be made, i think so....what it looks like , how it works, i just don't know. Sorry....but i also don't buy into the issue that it can not be done, shit someone once said we could not go to the moon either...yet we manged that, but some how we can not come up with some questions, hard to believe.....

I did'nt ask if the cons liked it or could have fixed it.....trust me not to happy with their track record either...the question was do you think our Immigration system needs fixing....yes or no.

Thank you.