Army Guy

The slashing is all across the federal Government. slashes

Here is a what if.....What if France decided to back an independent Quebec, I know this problem has come up more than once during discussions and training secesions within the military....So what if France agreed to the new transfer payments, provide an french injection to their population, provide military assistance etc etc....I mean France has always held a bond with Quebec, i mean why would france pass up the oportunity, to increase it's countries size by what 3 or 4 fold, a chance at Quebecs resources, more access to the Atlantic ocean market....plug directly into North American market....I mean come on....but like i said it's a what if...

There has been two elections in Afghan todate, the first one in which i'm refing was NATO controled, as there was no elected government at the time... The Media reports alot of things, and while the entire election may not of been up to western standards, it was over looked by members of many countries including Elections Canada, RCMP, DND, and our Governmental staff in Afghan... In the end Karzai was the guy with the most votes...

I do know that Canadian armed personal did provide security for dozens of voting booths, and those voter boxes did not leave the eye of those in charge...Other NATO troops were doing the same across the country...of course we could not be every where, but in enough places to make a difference if someone was to stuff boxes or screw with the counts....

Thats not how history is recorded....Canada prcatically swam the great lakes and ran to Washinton waving the flag We will go, we will go....trying to save some face for turning them (the US) down for Iraq.... A person who was elected by the Afghan people....There is not oil in Afghan , none that could or would justify the amount spent wagging the war ....after the Taliban were defeated, removed from power, and the newly elected Government installed, it was the Afghan Government that asked if NATO could stay to assist with security, and rebuilding the nation....Canada said Yes... As for the 92 % not Knowing what the US is doing there, they know, the guilty ones always know they are the first to run when we enter a village.... I like to remind you this is Canada, not downtown Russia.

it should not be just our soldiers that are held to such high standards but all Canadian citiizens as well as it is one of their many responsabilties to make change when change is needed.... be it a form of protest or direct action." Then you will also agree that the Canadian public has dropped the ball, and it's responsabilities towards the mission and our military. Why is that, in my personal opinion it is that they don't care a rats ass about anything that happens outside of our borders. sure they have an opinion on every topic, but thats it it's just an opimion, there is no conviction behind it , no passion, just empty words you use at the beer hall or at dinner with freinds...that really don't matter because next week they will change.... For different reasons, i'll explain...When this conflict first broke out Canada could not wait to send it's combat troops off to war, Thousands had lined up along the fences to see their heros go off to war, shit even the second roto got a huge send off....Flags, Banners, like something out of the frigging movies....even in the media across the nation...Canada could not wait for our troops to "get some"...our Combat role soon ends some what and we move north to Kabul, fairly routine, still some combat...Things begin to change in Canada, no more big send offs, even the amount of letters we would recieve from the public dropped way off....we move south to Kanadar were it all began...full time combat....every day all day....getting some was easy as we were in the middle of the hornets nest....Canadian citizens were finally getting what the wanted....blood....dont believe it look at the y tube vids come out of Afghan at the time Canmadian troops in action seen well over a 4 million hits. some one was watching ... Anyways, soon Canadians get bored of watching and lose interest in the mission, and the movement to Bring the troops home was born...soon after the Majority of Canadians express they no longer support the mission....Great thought the Soldiers we will soon be home.....the years tick by.... what Canadians say and what they do is two very different monsters....all talk no action would better explain it....but holy crap...jam the NHL games, or dealay the pogie checks and this nation will stand up and march all the way to Ottawa...getting soldiers home was not even on the list...YA we talked about it....but in the army talk is cheap...and opinion are like arseholes, everyone has got one... So for over 6 years Canadian soldiers were left holding the bag, and we poured our hearts and soles into the mission...because it was our mission...it was no longer a Canadian mission, but a Canadian forces mission...we were on our own...everything we achieve over there was at the cost of Canadian soldiers lives, nothing was for free...if we wanted better equipment soldiers had to die for it first...And you know what we were good with that...and so was the Canadian people.... So when you boil it all down to the bone, Canadians really lost the right to call this their mission....they gave up all the rights on anything about this mission....after all it was us doing the fighting, dying , bleeding....this pissed off alot of the Canadian public....Bullshit they said we pay taxes, we pay... you do....In the end we did, we bleed, we died, we shut the F*k up,but to us this was our mission..... Thats what is so hard to swallow, it is the very piont that they have the nerve to say anything at all, much less "IT WAS A WASTE OF TIME, and LIVES...our lives our time.....

Even c rats....we once eat frozen raw caribou up north, including raw whale meat (shit for a week, i don't know what was better having a poop take only 2 seconds in -50 or actually liking frozen caribou...In wainwright our escape and evasion instructor made us sample fried earth worms, slowly cooked in a little butter....Let me say this they suck, but maybe i was not hungry enough....

While the government may have Highjacked the message....the actual stickers are sold by the Canex...it is not a government owned, but rather has share holders...it's design was to provide portions of the profits to soldier programs , and family resource centers....

It was once said "we are only one event from returning to the caves"....i use to laugh about that, until i joined the military and visted some of the worlds hot spots.....when your hungry you'll eat almost anything....

It may have turned into that, but the orginal "support the Troops" slogan came from the Canex, a yellow ribbon with support the troops printed on it....sold to the troops or anyone visting a Canex , a portion of the proceeds were going to fund programs like the Family resource centers, and spousal support programs....Ya pretty polictical .... It's been twisted and hijacked into some political non sense by people, and the government who really don't understand it or refuse to listen...to bad it was a great way to raise funds and still is....but then again who cares....don't like the saying don't buy one at your local Canex...it's really that simple....

This is a good piont, and one i think i do understand and agree with 100%, however it is a kind of a double edge sword as well don't you think, i mean it should not be just our soldiers that are held to such high standards but all Canadian citiizens as well as it is one of their many responsabilties to make change when change is needed.... be it a form of protest or direct action. There has been lots of mention of Supporting the troops, on this forum, and in the media every where. But what does it really mean....Does it mean you'd go out of your way to shake a soldiers hand, buy him a beer at a bar, slap him on the back and say thanks....(Not that, that is what every soldier wants, but it is nice to be recongized once in a while).....or does it mean ensuring the military is well funded, equiped to do the tasks we ask of them, be it through our vote, written or physical protests or lobbing. or does it mean just being fashionable and stating I support the troops, because your afraid of standing out in the crowd....which is not a canadian thing to do.... standing out from the crowd ..... I'll explain what i'm getting at.... yesterdays news announced another poll....titled was it worth it....refing to our mission in Afghan, it states that 70 % of Canadians think it was a waste of time and lifes.....30 % of Canadians believe we accomplished alot of things and it was worth the time and effort..... 85% of Canadians Support the troops.... Here's my bitter pill to swallow....all my time ,effort, and blood, i spent in Afghan under our flag is considered by most Canadians as a waste of time....My comrads who made the final trip home in a casket had died in vein, for nothing according to 70 % of Canadians.....and as bitter as that is i'm willing to swallow it, don't agree but i'm still swallowing.... I think they should do a poll on soldiers who served in Afghan....and ask a few questions of our own.... Do you think Canadains abandoned the mission, soldiers and afghan ? what has the average Canadian done to support the troops? Do you think the average Canadian actually gives a rats ass about Afghan ? soldiers ? or the military ? maybe i'm to close to the subject to have a broad enough perspective....but i like things in black and white..not shades of politically correct grey.... Your state has gone to great lengths to ensure it's soldiers recieve the training to make sure this does not happen ever...in fact most western armies have as well.... Hilter's army is not a very good example, as it was not so much as soldiers showing loyality to Hilter and serving with out question, as much as it was fear of death...don't under estamate fear one can make anyone do anything if one has something to loose.... Your right the state is useless with out an army....but to ensure compliance fear is used to keep everyone in line and serving the cause....look at most of the middle east right now....

Yes, but under a different name,if approved and fits with DND's requirements they will pay for and send you to a any civilian school for higher education, (normally has to be close to your supporting base)...., ie complete university degrees, get your masters, etc...they will also pay for trades courses that are not offered within DND but valued by your trade/job.... They also spend some major funds on second language training,french/ english being primary but if you have shown a knack or ability for other langauages they will pay and provide for this type of training as well.. Other plans Today if you already have a civilian qualification, such as mech, plumber, Doctor, nurse, etc and those trades are short they offer large cash incentives for you to join....these do not include incentives already put in place, for instance there are separate pay rates for doctors, nurses, dentists, lawyers, etc ...IE a Maj who is a doctor makes way more than a Maj who is a pilot, and tones more than a Inf Maj. These include direct entry, at Cpl or Capt rank levels after completion of basic training.... They have also concentrated on recruiting from the reserves, offering direct entry, with accrededation for courses they have already completed....Note that most if not all Reserve courses are the same as Reg force. and up to last year the process worked in reverse as well, retired Reg force guys would double dip, and roll right into a reserve postions(normally working for the same unit) but due to cost savings cut backs DND has slashed a large portion of the Class B reserve postions (full time).

Your sterotype is a urban legend, one that dates back as far back as the 50's....when the military was well over 120,000 strong and was used as an employment tool....todays military is only 68,000 strong, and the compition to get in is much greater, so the quality of recruit is going to be much higher. Here are some facts, every officer must earn a degree before grading RMC, and must continue his education through out his early years Via OPME military courses (not sure how many i thought 12, may be higher,and they msut be completed before a certain piont in their carear) these courses are very intensive, and are acreadited University courses... As for coming from a well off family alot of officers do come from very well off families, perhaps a quick look at our histroy will change your mind. From captains of industry like the Molson beer empire, to ex NHL hockey players, and it also works in reverse many ex military members have made their mark on our countries history as well... As for the regular soldier, i have a plt of 30 Infanteers under my command, All have at a minimum completed High school, 11 have atleast i univerisity degree and 3 have multi degrees...These numbers are for an infanteer, and yet the Military has a wide varity of jobs from carpenter,medic,space comms tech,,to doctor, nurse , surgeon, just assuming they all need people with some form of education.....As for they're back ground, they all differ, as the military is made up from every corner of our great country....and while yes a few have joined because options were limited, they hardly make the majority... It is true you are broken down both phyiscally and mentally, is it a from of brain washing or is it a form of selcetion, or as we call it weeding out those unfit to continue training....Not many recruits show up to the recruiting center already in peak phyiscal condition capable of doing 10 km run in under 50 mins.....so to wipe them into this type of condition there are serveral programs PT is done atleast twice a day, and is incorpated in to alot of other training as well, running, circut training, marching all form this intensive PT periods....and while standards are not as high in Basic as they are in the actual units any soldier is required to be physically fit.... for obvious reasons Cambat is a extreme physical event, and if your not fit you will not survive, and will put the lives of your comrads in danger... They also test you mentally,for good reason this person may be in charge of a multi million dollar wpn system capable of taking out a small city....you want this person to be mentally stable don't you.... stress is every where in basic training, and for some teenager use to sitting on mom's couch then being introduced to some screaming Mcpl at basic your frigging right it's stressfull it's meant to be for a lots of reasons....remember when everyone is running away from gun fire we are running to it, you want a physically and mentally fit person doing that, our lifes depend on each other and i don't need the extra stress wondering if they have my back or not... This use to be a fact, our government use to provide housing well below the local rent, or mortage rates....not so now, it's been that way for years now, the military housing orginally built in the 50's must meet local rent minimums for the same compareable space...it's now cheaper to have your own mortage, or rent your own modern apartment with all the modern toys inside.....Today the majority of soldiers live on the local econemy, mixed in with other canadian citizens....a quick walk through any PMQ area on base will quickly tell you a good chunck of them are empty...in fact DND has taken on serveral projects on many bases to reduce these PMQS as they are becomeing to difficult to maintain and heat... Not so every individual soldier is responsiable for his own actions, what i think your getting confused with is the chain of command is also held responsiable for his soldiers actions and shortfalls, for instance a soldier fails to meet his timings because his supervisor failed to inform him both will be punished to some degree..... If a soldier murders someone on the battle field and it is concluded through investagation he acted on his own the soldier will face punishment alone. So yes there are times when the chain of command are also held accountable for their actions...if it is through the supervisor neglect the action took place....however other than that the soldier is always held accountable for his actions.... As for following orders blindly, not so each soldier is taught what is right and wrong from the beginning, their introduced to military law, genva conventions, and inter national law, and the law of conflict, and each soldier will continue this training through out his carear, and before deployment....There is no excuse for not knowing what is a lawful command and what is unlawful...everyone is held accountable from private to Gen.

Every soldier has the moral and legal obilgation to follow not only Canadian laws, any inter national laws Canada has signed onto, genva conventions, plus any other treaty or agreement Canada is part of....They also have the Duty, not to follow or obey any illigal or unlawful order or command....Any Canmadian soldier that breaks those laws or agreements is held accountable....unless you have proof that one has not been charged for crimes in which they are guilty of....why continue to bring this up. Well over 30,000 Canadian troops have served in Afghan how many have been charged with atrocities? In fact why don't you take this back all the way to the boar war if you like....out of the millions of Canadian troops that served how many used it as an excuse to commit atrocities....so much for that myth..... As for it being the main cause of evil wrong again...Man's constant need for power and wealth, and greed is the main source of evil.... Killing someone is alot easier when they are dehumanized, to a few chioce words, but then again training takes most of that away anyways, it's a reaction to constant drills that allows you to squezze the triger if you must know....the hard part is after the battle is over, finding out your kill has a name, a family, kids, he has bills and the same problems you have....and now you've put a end to his life....his only problem was he chose the wrong side in which to fight for....Thats something a soldier lives with for his rest of his life, the nightmares,sweats all the rest of the crap that goes with it....not many have tried to pass the blame up the chain of command...no that is something most soldiers live with by themselfs in quite ...

Alot of historical things are beyond you. And yet 32 million have Canadian birth certificates, and are considered by the world to be Canadian citizens...Shit i even have a deed for land authorized by the provicial government ....So one would have to ask what type of birth certificate do you own and who issued it, and what type of citizen are you ? And what special rights do you have....Did you or your peoples get to pick the chunk of land they were put on. Did you have the option over all the prime land available....if not you have alot in common with the Israelis And yet here we sit, under the Canadian flag recogized by the world over as the legitimate power of this nation...

Man your history sucks, you should keep to what you know... Why FIRST NATIONS picked out the crappiest part of land to squat on is beyond me. Atleast take over some prime lands if your going to have the United Nations and Canada load you up with Blankets and beads.

Does it matter who was protesting, was it these same groups that protested to remove christian prayer in schools...i think this matter is already been discussed and changed for the majority...if it gets over turned then i think we will have a shit storm...

I thought pray in schools was removed because it did not cover all religions, along with many other things that have been removed....so why is this case any different.

Could it be that crime rate stats are a tad misleading,and not taking in all the info required to make an informed decision. While it is true the rates are falling.... but could demographics be playing a major factor here, i mean the average age for a criminal is 15 to 35 and that demographic is getting smaller, it only makes sense to have a drop in crime rate....So are the current stats being improperly used to gain polictical advantage, because everyone loves to use stats.

Really, so if i thought it was my right to drink and drive and fire a wpn out the window at neibors dogs that it should be struck into law that , that is OK ....Hence why the needs of the many always out wieghs the needs of the few.... They are held responsiable and accountable for thier actions and the actions of thier men under thier control, However one needs to understand combat first before one makes unrealistic demands not to have any collateral demage or deaths...it just does not happen..colateral deamge is written into the genva convention, as it understands the nature of war fare and that it happens...That being said any commander not taking every action to avoid unnessicary deaths and damages can be charged and held accountable by any court of law.... Everthing looks good on paper, until you actually get on the ground and look at the problem, The detainee process was made extremly more difficult because of Suppose problems that were reported. an example of this is when detainees were captured by CDN soldiers at every hand over that was made each detainee was asked a long list of questions regarding is capture and handling, and if the detainee just once said he was mishandled or abuse those soldiers were detaineed until a full investagation was conducted...so each detainee was handled with kid gloves... Once they reached a collection piont they would be transfered by MP's (military police) to prison to be handed over to Afghan prison gaurds who were under the training and advisement of Corrections Canada, corrections Canada was under control of the Governments liason team which reported directly to the senior canadian government offical on the ground who reported to the PM office....All of this was to be checked and controled by the Inter national red cross.....how much more control do you want... More myth, the Average Afghan wants peace and does not care what form of governmant it takes, that peace can not happen because of a few thousand want the right to hold those millions under thier thumb, in a brutal dictatorship. What about those that were willing to just sit and watch it all unfold on TV and not do anything to help...what about those that can armchair this whole mission and just sit back and report all the negative stuff....and turn the other cheek when faced with anything positive, claiming it must be a mistake or falsely reported...i complated 3 tours in Afghan and can say after each tour we made a difference for the better, that does not earn me a place in hell. but cements my understanding and belief of Canada's military and the heros that wear the uniform, that i call comrads.

Eyeball: By mosty of us you mean those on this board, because at the start of this mission ,nationally the Majority of Canadians agreed to this mission and could not wait to see thier combat troops in action. None of them knew what was in store for our troops, except thye military which was lobbying not to go on this mission as we were not prepared. but the people and government speak and we (soldiers)do as we are told. So i hardly think it is fair to say "we told you so at the start" when the majority could not wait to get thier hands full of blood.... The detainee situation is a crock of media hype, that has been blown up a million times....and nothing has been proved or nobody charged.....after how many7 investagations. Todate there has been only one soldier charged with war crimes, shooting a crictically wounded detainee....out of the thousands that served in that mission one could hardly paint them all with the same brush. ...and just as a side bar following orders is not,nor has ever been an excuse for following an illigal or unlawful order.

Not true, in some US town it is illigal not to own and carry a fire arm, there crime rates are the lowest in the state and country.

I think that will work as well as the war on drugs....regulatory enviroment does not stop organized crime from profitting from illigal booze or smokes.... Giving into these guys is not the key either, I think it lies in education, myself, showing the effects of hard drugs on minds and bodies,etc etc ...that and perhaps harder sentences,

Had we kept that realistic spending profile all along , including during the decade of darkness, there would be no massive bar tab, but rather a more even tab that could be swallowed during the bad times and good times. All that being said this massive tab you talk about is to equip our forces to the size they are today...which is to small "my opinion" The equipment that is going to be replaced is rusting out, well over 25 years ...When would be a good time to replace it, after we get our defict down to what number ? how many years will that take ? So when talking about our military we should ask ourselfs this .....is this massive bar tab worth it just to maintain status quo, or should we consider another option, such as Having the US provide our security needs and lossing our sov, or contract it out to a private company, and risk lossing our identity....pick one they all come at a cost.

So it is stll beyond your comprehension. keep trying, "remaining stable" (Your link) does not mean decreasing as you quoted was beyond your comprehension....and increasing by 80 Murders over the previuos year (my Link) clearly is not decreasing....but then again i'm not the one with an axe to grind.