buffycat

Well, the first rule when dealing with police is no not utter a single word. Second - if you have a cell phone start the record function immediately (even if you only get sound - as it may come in handy later. There is no reason why I should step out of my vehicle. If he needs my liscense I can hand it to him through the window. Some police officers are not nice individuals Betsy - I sure hope you never run into that type - it would be a wake up call for you. Some of these bastards can be sick beyond belief. I have VERY little trust in the police - and the level of mistrust I do have is VERY well earned by these so called 'protectors'. The militarisation of our 'public' police has been ongoing for decades now, coupled with unrestrained allowances made for these officers it spells brutality time and time again - and THEY GET AWAY WITH IT. There was a case here a few years back where a constable on the force was videotaped smashing a girls head repeatedly into the hood of his cruiser. Guess what: he's still on the force after a two hear holiday with pay. (I know this guy's father - sick bastard - son is just the same). We need civilian oversight on our police and those who are unfit need to lose their jobs immediately.

Higgly, what else can you fill in wrt to the ASEAN? Thanks in advance - I don't think any of us have the real scope on how badly things are going there. Gosthacked - I agree of all Monks - buddhist monks. No matter what else this is really bad PR. (Idon't mean that callously either - though I think you know that ).

Hear hear!! Thanks Higgly. Bout time too. Time would be better spent trying to think of ways to address those parties responsible for supporting the current junta. If that happens to be China then so be it - put some social pressure on them - it can work. I think the biggest mistake they made was attacking the monks themselves. These men are reveared in ways most of us cannot begin to understand. This has opened a wound that won't be shut.

Oh good grief...

WRT this thread: There is NO excuse for a fully grown male to manhandle a young girl this way. None. What the hell is wrong with people - that they are so f'n brainwashed to throw in these knee jerk explainitories on the part of the police here? Let's see, this dude is a 'cop'. So, presumably he has been trained in take down and restraint techniques? He is apparantly presented with a situation where he needs to 'restrain' someone..(benefit of the doubt here) - yet he certainly uses excessive force and displays no evidence of real training whatsoever. Question do you want this type of goon dealing with you on a late drive home?

holy f*** Sieg Heil... No wonder I keep hearing geese every time I log in here...

jbg are you being deliberately obtuse? Yanking the chains? I know you not that stupid: Google results for 'destruction of Iraq Antiquities' edited to add: Why is it that so many folk say 'Well so and so did it before!!' ? Like when on earth have two wrongs made a right? If my neighbour is pouring oil down the sewer drain does that mean it's fine and dandy for me to do the same or worse? What nonsense.

Gideon says it all right here: No One is Guilty in Israel

Dog and Bush: Keep on track... The topic is the children of Gaza - right now in 2007 and what it happening there. We are not talking history - we are talking about the 'reality on the ground' TODAY. If you do not wish to discuss what is quite possibly illegal and certainly collective punishment then go start your own threads - or better yet get a room.

Not around here. If you support the rights of innocent Palestinian (and Bedouin) natives (Christian, Muslim and Jew alike) you are automatically branded an Israel hater and .... wait for it: Anti-semite!!! There are as I am sure you know, many Israelis who don't agree with the policies of their leadership. Brave souls who have spoken and organised peaceful ways to demonstrate and attempt to change things. Not all Israelis want to continue with the draconian oppression carried on now for 40 years. But then again --- all those folks end up on the S.H.I.T. List I'm with you - pro people, pro human. All should be able to live in dignity, all should be afforded the right to liberty and peace. For the culprits in all of this - on all sides - just ask the age old question: Cui Bono? (Sometimes it's not who one thinks)

I wish I had an answer wrt Burma, I imagine that it would take a concerted effort on the rest of the World's leaders to do something - but since when have our leaders ever, ever listened to the populace? WRT the Security Council - it needs a complete and utter overhaul. The use and abuse of the veto powers renders the organisation pretty much useless - and anyway - who actually ever listens to them? colour me cynical, but I'm not holding my breath for any kind of action any time soon.

Uh...jbg Iraq held the cradle of civilisation. That has been destroyed. It's sort of like re-writing history - once you wipe out the evidence who can argue with you? Baghdad Batteries? What Baghdad Batteries? Hanging Gardens? What hanging gardens? Not only has the UK/US war machine killed hundreds of thousands, made refugees of millions but it has also demolished, pilfered and stolen humanity's shared history by the looting and destruction of many in situ artifacts and wonders, as well as the tragedy of all the museums. Of course, this is quite likely part of the plan.

Oh Higgly, surely you don't mean the LOBBY??

Well... the hatred directed towards the Jews then and the Muslims now is certainly similar. I would also add that both groups havae leaders who have been hiding behind religion as well. Though ask youself - could someone start a thread here titled: Judaism, the sneaky buggers - and get away with it? Same coin, different sides.

And what of a woman who is raped? How would those who are dead set against abortion for any reason deal with that? Lock her up? Force her to have the child? While in my own heart I would not be able to have an abortion - I think it is important to at the very least provide safe abortions to those women who DO choose to have one. AW - you are right - it is relevant. I always get a bit of a kick when men comment on abortion.

Well it seems that thousands of Monks have been slaughtered now and left to rot in the jungles. This is a real tragedy. Daily Mail Burma: Thousands dead in massacre of the monks dumped in the jungle By MARCUS OSCARSSON - More by this author » Last updated at 15:04pm on 1st October 2007 Comments Comments (69) Thousands of protesters are dead and the bodies of hundreds of executed monks have been dumped in the jungle, a former intelligence officer for Burma's ruling junta has revealed. The most senior official to defect so far, Hla Win, said: "Many more people have been killed in recent days than you've heard about. The bodies can be counted in several thousand." Mr Win, who spoke out as a Swedish diplomat predicted that the revolt has failed, said he fled when he was ordered to take part in a massacre of holy men. He has now reached the border with Thailand. **** Okay, so outside of Israel, China and Russia who else is arming the Junta?

Not a surprise, it was spoken about in Perle and Feith's Clean Break papers (written for Netanyahu). Israel has been wanting this for some time now - it all has to do with the balance of power - currently with Israel on top. You might want to take a peek at this: http://representativepress.blogspot.com/20...01_archive.html While Chomsky talks mostly about Iran here - the link is made between the ultra right neocons like Perle and Feith and the whole idea of redrawing the entire ME.

Cite?

I've been following this thread, and pretty much both Higgly and JB_Globe have echoed my own opinions, so I haven't felt the need to comment. That said - I have seen nothing constructive being offered as to what the 'West' can do towards those that we have exploited. How about some positive suggestions as to how we can get over the past and move together towards a brighter future for all? Moderate American did touch on one idea, but I will take it further: How about stop sending aid with strings attached all over it? How about ceasing from messing about with other's soveriegn nations? Allow them their mistakes (God knows we have made our fair share). Even the playing field and instead of a hand up - give a hand OUT - out of the debt we burden them with, out with the World Bank and the IMF! If aid is needed - let it be humanitarian, and purely alturistic. How about cracking down on weapons sales? Anyways - thanks JB and Higgly for at least attempting to address these issues. I'll trot back to lurking now.

I really think there are reading comprehension problems with some folk on this board. I never said I support Ahmadinejad - I do however find him somewhat easier to bear listening to than Bush. so what? Can you tell me when the last time Iran attacked another nation? How many military bases does she have worldwide? How many puppet dictators has she set up recently? Realize this: The whole warmongering towards Iran right now has nothing to do with 'freedom' and 'democracy' or 'going after them there so they don't come here'. It has far more to do with resources and power balance in the ME - IOW people are dying for a RACKET. Continue on with your quip little comments and terms. Now, wrt when and how Iran will be attacked, you might want to give this article by Uri Avnery a little read: Gush Shalom

Well Rue and the Rest of you - Please re-read the topic of this thread: CHILDREN in Gaza. NOW. We can all argue to the end of time as to what happened in 47 and 48, or for that matter the terrorism which occured prior to the UN creation of Israel. Where will that get us? I am talking about the needless slaughter of CHILDREN. Period. A few more were killed just days ago. Another died waiting at a checkpoint. Three were blown to bits for playing in a field. While you can sit there and blab on about the atrocities committed by both Hamas/Fatah what of the atrocities committed BY the STATE of Israel. This street goes two ways Rue - and you know it. I don't think I've ever seen you show any kind of sympathy for any Palestinian who has lost thier children, brothers, sisters wives or husbands - ever. I'm not talking about cowardly suicide bombers either - I am talking about people. This is what YOU miss Rue - in your haste to defend the indefensible wrt Israeli policies (note I state POLICIES - not refering to ALL Israeli citizens). Israel needs to shoulder her own responsibility in this matter. Solutions needs to be found - solutions which have been offered time and time again - with both sides failing miserably. The PA by lacking the leadership and its inability to reign in extremist factions - and Israel by continuing to create the 'reality' on the 'ground' READ: Illegal settlements. Believe me there is lots of blame to go around and it doesn't just land on the shoulders of the Palestinians - it rests with Israel as well, and of course the US for her aiding and abetting the situation. So what now for the children of Gaza? What do you think it does to a child, mentally to live in what is essentially a huge open air prison? To be attacked in the West Bank by radical settlers? To watch their parents be dehumanized and treated like cattle continually at the various checkpoints and roadblocks? To live with drones buzzing and F16's flying overhead? Do you honestly believe that Israel is handling her responsibility as OCCUPIER in a reasonable manner? You NEVER answer these questions. Yet - these sorts of atrocities do need to be dealt with - and Israel DOES need to step up to the plate. Oh, yes they 'left' Gaza - but how? The Gazans were still forbidden to collect their own taxes, to fish in their own sea waters, to control their own borders! That really isn't leaving is it? WRT Hamas - Israel has been subjugating the Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza since the 67 war - long before the advent of Hamas (Current boogeyman). Israel's right wing Likud party has NO desire for peace - they have a simple desire for a land - without people which they can claim as theirs - if it takes time to ethnicaly cleanse the remaining areas still harbouring Palestinians - so be it. Lieberman is NO longer the exception. So, the question remains - what of the children? What of the lives of these future generations - both Israeli and Palestinian alike? There are alot of Israelis who DO not agree with the IDF and the militarisation of Israeli Society Rue - not all of them are like you - uncaring towards their fellow man.

Personally, I love a man in a kilt!!

Wow tbud, what a wonderful post! And SOOOO refreshing around here! Thank you. I agree with many of your sentiments and have often wondered the same. I think the media needs to take a long hard look at itself - and the fashion world certainly as well. You are absolutely correct about the stress on young girls - to be so thin, so blonde, so plastic. It's really pretty awful what our society does in this respect. I loved this part of your post the best though: "They think beauty is only skin deep, but real beauty for me is, the well developed person."

I bolded this line - because this is where I think you make a good point: one must eliminate the SOURCE of the crime. Sadly you lost me on the rest. Now, don't get me wrong - I'm no supporter of crime - but rounding up a bunch of miscreants is not addressing the SOURCE. The sources are social, economical and wrt drugs judicial. Go ahead though, round 'em up, toss em out and a new crop will come up tomorrow. Until other issues are addressed the cycle will continue.

Well, with respect to your flawed analogy the State of Texas is NOT occupying Mexico, conducting raids and extrajudicial assassinations, kidnappings and destroying infrastructure as well as bulldozing Mexicans homes and setting up illegal 'Texas Only' settlements throughout the most agriculturally significant areas of Mexico! Last time I checked I don't think that the State of Texas has been collecting all aid and taxes for Mexico - and refusing to give it to them, nor do I think that the State of Texas has sealed all of the borders of Mexico!! Last I heard the State of Texas was also NOT in the habit of flying low over populated Mexican areas creating sonic booms all night either! Oh and I don't think that the state of Texas has killed almost 100 Mexican children in the last year either, not to mention the almost 400 other civilians. However, if the State of Texas DID do all of this - I would certainly not blame the Mexicans if they feebley lobbed unguided rockets into Texas.