kuzadd

a word of advice check international law wrt to territories "won" by israel. Nothing was won, by Israel. Nothing can be kept, Israel ILLEGALY occupies Palestinian territory. Just the facts. Or let me use a slogan you can likely relate to " no spin"

Well that is a sweeping, arrogant statment to make. Some evil has been done in religions name, for sure - but I would say that religion has done more good than bad in human history. Yeah he's got a point...what did religion do to stop the athiest mass murderers, Stalin and Mao? Stalin and Mao are perfect examples of abusive government, when the populace have grown to complacent and dependant on government for their 'security' . Neither government used religion to manipulate the masses, is all that can be said about either of them, wrt religion. They used the FEAR ,without the religious overtones.

There is also the Historian Benny Morris, who speaks of the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, the raping of women, killing of babies, slaughter of villages, but, no worry, he thinks it's 'all good'. crimes against humanity, but , all good! Like the rest of the apologists, who are short on hsitory, but long on rhetoric and justifications for slaughter. any excuse will do, when, a country, new or old, just wants to have some land or resources.

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe Pappe, an Israeli historian and a senior lecturer at Haifa University, has written a superb account of the Israeli expulsion of the Palestinians from their land in 1948. He quotes Pappe writes of the Israelis' March 1948 plan for evicting the Palestinians, : Between 30 March and 15 May 1948, i.e. before any Arab government intervened, Israeli forces seized 200 villages and expelled 250,000 Palestinians. The Israeli leadership stated, . Pappe summarises, this is but one Historian, who speaks of Israeli ethnic cleansing of the Palestian people. There are more.

Higgly: The Palestinian/Israeli conflict is not about radical Islamism. It is about territory. A significant proportion of Palestinian Arabs are Christian. Get your facts straight. Westviking: The Arab / Israeli conflict is about ethnic hatred and genocide. When the United Nations proposed separate states for Israel and Palestine, the Arab states surrounding Israel answered that they did not need a state as they were going to push the Jews (that survived) into the Red Sea. The people camped on the West Bank and in Gaza are there because ARABS told them to flee Israel to avoid harm in the coming Armageddon back in 1948. They were NOT displaced by Israel; the nation was at war with several Arab states within 24 hours of becoming a state and had no time to do more than try to prepare to defend itself. Israel (barely) won the 1948 war at a terrible price. She has been on a constant war footing since and has won several other attempts at genocide through war by neighbour nations. If you refuse to read history and are unaware, please do not burden us with trivia. actually the arab /palestinian conflict is about land, resources, borders etc., Israel is an occupier. It is occupying Palestinian terroritory , it is OUTSIDE of it's alloted border, just the facts. It is actually persons who are totally unaware of history, that should not burden us with trivia and loathsome rhetoric, as espoused by hateful religious indoctrination, and extensive propoganda. that is not what the United nations did, why would you say that? TOTALLY FALSE and a number of Israeli historians have made that quite clear! as for the rest of rhetorical nonsense, spat out in this post, take your own admonishment to heart, read some history, not BS and rhetoric!

goody, civil war serves the occupiers that much more!!!

Is there any evidence of this practice? I read about it that one time, and found that the kids where doing at the urging of surrounding journalists. Certainly what they did, and what is taught in Israel has no comparison to the stated aim of their neighbours - you know - that little thing they want to do called genocide. the Israeli children were NOT being urged to anything by journalists, what an absolutely bogus claim, as you well know, they were doing it because that is what they do, it is a form of brainwashing for the kids, it benefits Israel to sow the seeds of hatred, as well as it benefits Hamas

hey never mind the endless brainwashing aimed at western youth, to kill, kill, kill. We have movies, glorifying war. video games, glorifying war, and how honourable it all is, to die for your country. But, oops, I forgot, it's always OKYDOKEY, when the west does it!!!!! indoctrinates and spreads propoganda amongst it's own. except it is really disgusting when anyone does it!!!! sigh............................ oh and as for indoctrinating hate, one just has to read here, and the level of indoctrination is pretty clear, amongst some. Unfortunately rational realistic voices are to few and far between.

Interesting, so do you disagree that the iraqi populace was terrorirised by the US invasion? do you disagree that the intent of the war, was to bring about political change? what do you think?

Until religion is abolished off the face of the earth people will use it for their own "ends". ESPECIALLY when those "ends" mean wiping out or converting everyone else to the one "true" faith. The ABUSE of God is poison.

I don't think the military looking into this had intended it to be a 'vietnam analogy'. interesting?

I don't even know that you have read the article in it;s entirety. How do you garner stats on "insurgents"? "Stop being so superior without understanding the problems or situations," please do recall this when you are spouting superiority then, k? and promptly admonish yourself quickly for said superiority.

Well, if its justified then to use terrorism to overthrow tyranny, and terrorism is no different from war, then Bush et al are justified overthrowing Saddam via invasion. Whats the dif? ok, first of all I never said anything was justified, your assuming that is what I am saying, I am speaking purely from fact that all warfare can be seen to be terrorism, guerilla or conventional. Unless , you are claiming : 1: the Iraqis have not been terrorised by the US invasion? 2: that the intent of the creation of that terror, inclusive of the overthrow of Saddam in iraq, was not to" bring about political change" clarify that for me, please and thanks?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070504/pl_af...qmilitaryhealth Now the West, and I include Canada, in this , along with the US, Britian and Australia, have been demonstrating their true colours repeatedly to the Arab world. It does not paint a pretty picture of a group of people who allege themselves to be of superiority morally, religiously etc., So let's take a look at the west in iraq......... Interesting little news story..... one in ten have mistreated civilians, that means there are approx 14-14,500 US soldiers who have mistreated iraqi civilians and or damaged their property.WHEN IT WAS NOT NECESSARY. nevermind what the private mercenaries from Blackwater and KBR have been up to, since there are almost an equal amount of them present in iraq, and no international laws really apply to them, nor are they held to the same standards as US soldiers, one can assume, given there past behaviours in Kosovo, they are up to much worse! This does not bode well for the soldiers, their families, nor the societies in which they will return to, hopefully. " "For the first time ever, a sampling of soldiers and marines in combat units were questioned on issues of character, and their answers suggested hardened attitudes toward civilians among front line troops: -- About 10 percent of soldiers surveyed reported mistreating non-combatants or damaging their property when it was not necessary; -- Less than half of the soldiers and marines would report a team member for unethical behavior; -- More than a third of all soldiers and marines reported that torture should be allowed to save the life of a fellow soldier or marine. "Major General Gale Pollock, the army's acting surgeon general, sought to make a distinction between soldiers' thoughts about torture and their actions. "But what it speaks to is the leadership that the military is providing, because they're not acting on those thoughts. They're not torturing the people," she said." well that's debateable, and also somewhat laughable, in light of Abu Ghraib, but, i am not so much concerned with what they think, at this time, though it could be a serious indicator of problems to come. I am concerned with what they are doing, which is abusing civilians and destroying their property for no reason at all, as they occupy a country against the very wishes of it's citizens!

True, but then the freedom fighter will of necessity be adopting the methods of terrorism. Thats bad. all war is "terrorism" whether it is done, using conventional, or guerilla maneuvres or tactics. looking at the most basic definition of "terrorism" The systematic use of terror, the deliberate creation and exploitation of fear for bringing about political change we see that all warfare is the warfare of terrorism, despite the over the top, overblown rhetoric, of this present time, which I assure you will pass, all warfare is terrorism, as it is the systemic use of terror, to bring about political change. I mean really what was "shock and awe" all about? The infliction of terror on the Iraqi people! To demoralize them, scare them, and to show that change was coming and it was going to be big and bad. Terrorism!

The American founding fathers certainly did understand why guns guaranteed freedom. Guns of the 18th century being muskets. The most fabulously equipped European armies of the time were equiped with the best weaponry money could buy - muskets. Of course it wasn't all that difficult for lowly citizens to acquire the very same weaponry as any elite European army (excepting cannon, of course) - more muskets. But things have changed. Anyone that thinks that their and thier fellow citizens 9mm Glocks, Smith and Westons, the odd kalishnikov and Ruger, are going to stand up to Tyranny's grenade launchers, rocket launchers, armoured vehicles, 25mm chain guns, mortars, medium MG's, 500lb bombs etc - is, simply, a fool. Actually, the guerilla warfare vs traditional warfare concept still stands true today. One need only look at Vietnam, Iraq, and IMO, the recent Israeli loss. In all cases, the guerilla fighters, were underarmed, severely underarmed, and yet, Goliath was slain, in all three cases. I include Iraq, because it will never be "won". One also can look at the occupation of Palestine by Israel, which, so long as Israel continues to occupy Palestinian territory, there will be guerilla warfare, despite all the rhetorical nonsense. It's classic guerilla warfare. Therefore peterf, I would have to say, though outgunned, the guerilla fighter can most often outmaneuver, and has numerous other options. Concluding, the American founding fathers were correct then, and there thinking still is now.

I don't think you realize, I am referring to a second riot breakout, that happened after some specific legislation was passed in France. ( march 2006) http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/france-studentprotests/ note the pics.

witless people? or overzealous airlines in a climate of purposely perpetuated fear?? I'd say the second, is the more accurate narrative. when fear runs rampant, rationality, goes out the window! as I stated, wackiness is everywhere!!! it is NOT limited to one country/group of people, etc.,

'betsy' post='216683' date='May 7 2007, 07:43 AM'] .......... ' wow, labelled and assumptive. Your assuming all prisoners are "Taliban" but you do NOT KNOW that. Unless you are the all knowing Swami? ' Yes, like the POW's got urinated and defecated and electrocuted and beaten and raped, by there American captors, far worse then some slaps to the head. How humanely the west treated them, of course, of course the Taliban are much worse, maybe you'd get a beating, oops never mind, the west already beat them to it! How many jeering taunts, have the Afghani's and Iraqis already borne at the hands of the west? Oh yes, one cannot forget the gangraping of that 14 yr old girl by american soldiers, the murder of her family and then the burning of their bodies. and more, and more and more!!!! You choose to forget how the western captors showed their true colours and still are, no surprise there.! But wait, please, quickly dismiss it as a few bad apples, for the west, and rampant on the "other" side a complete black and white , either or response. as expected. spoken like a" good german". There is more to life, then either/ or. BTW: when you see me speaking as a liberal supporter, ever let me know, ok? This is not a liberal party/conservativeparty issue, IMO. Nor is it a "right"/"left" issue. rather it is a morality/human rights issue, of which I dare say, you are displaying very little of, IMO.

Okay, what yould you call a minority that started thousands of fires burning cars and looting? Fighting with police for weeks and making the streets unsafe, that IS a problem. When Jews start leaving a country, something's wrong. you referring to the student riots in France?? That if I recall correctly spread over into Britian.? of course you aren't? not the "right" group of people to scapegoat, correct ?

"He got out of his seat, and responded angrily" maybe because the woman flight attendant, was being rude? presumptious? what do you suppose that little boy said, to get him kicked off the plane? how about the nursing mother? How about the guy with the tan? face it, wackiness abounds everywhere! as was my point all along, so.

Well well well. Socialism rejected in France, will wonders never cease? Let's see what this guy does about the Muslim problem. "The Muslim problem" maybe he will build big extermination camps. Like Hitler did to contend with , as he called it the "Jewish problem" as Hitler blamed all the ill's of Germany, and by extension Europe, on the "Jewish problem" so many do the same, with the "Muslim problem" Alas there are none so blind as those who CAN NOT see. as history repeats itself. rhetoric is rhetoric, propaganda is propaganda, and still people fall for it!!!

riverwind: bad loans are simply written off, and the buck is passed to you and me. Almost all home loans have CMHC coverage or others because it is mandatory, when the purchaser, has a downpayment below a certain percentage of the asking price. Which is how most homes are purchased at this time, very low down payments. if this is rarely, not the case, the bank takes the home and sells it, and cost that is not gotten back in the sale is again passed to the homeowner. Again I will reiterate, have you noticed bank profitibality as of late, "livin large"! This is possible, because there is soooo much credit extended from lenders,(backed by nothing) in which very substantial interest is charged on that credit,( all forms of credit) hence the massive profits. Also ridiculous service fees.

Um actually, it's a he said/she said scenario. Laying one's head in someone's lap, could possibly be perceived as lewd, by a prig, and, that is the airline's version, the couples version is laying head in lap because, spouse does not feel well, and there is nothing lewd about that. I would say, it's actually a case of the airlines making a mountain out of a molehill, particularily in light of other incident's on planes, did you read the entire article? as cited in the article *One passenger on a Delta flight from Los Angeles to Salt Lake City was arrested for leaving his seat to go to the lavatory less than 30 minutes before landing (due to the incident, air marshals ordered all passengers to put their hands on their heads for the rest of the flight). *And an Orthodox Jewish man was kicked off an Air Canada flight for praying, which attendants claim was making other passengers nervous. *Other passengers have been taken off flights for making jokes, such as asking attendants if they had "checked the crew for sobriety" and "where do you keep the bomb?" Some have been booted for taking onboard hand cream, matches and bottles of water, and for sniffing something in a bag. * In 2005, a United Airlines flight out of Chicago was delayed because a small boy said something inappropriate. then there's the other passengers being over the top....... *"In September, Seth Stein, a London interior designer returning from his vacation in Turks and Caicos, was put in a chokehold and physically pinned to his seat by another passenger on an American Airlines flight. Stein's crime: He used an iPod, went to the lavatory and his tan made him appear "Arab."" as stated wackiness abounds EVERYWHERE.!!!

You are assuming that the home is actually worth more than the value of the loan. You also forget that a lot of debt (i.e. credit cards) is not secured by assets which means the banks to assume complete liability. Riverwind, I am only speaking of home's at this time. if the home is not sold for what is owed on it, the insurer or homeowner is on the hook, you don't seem to grasp that the banks hold all the cards, not you or me. Credit cards are a whole other issue, but ,by and large looking at the massive profitibility of the banks, they are making out "like bandits" so to speak.