Michael Hardner

That's fine, but don't you think adding foreigners.... Foreigners.... And let's be specific about how reasonable they are.... European foreigners.... Is a protective measure?

Your post makes sense, but didn't I read something about outsiders facilitating it? Tony Blair? If you put others besides American, Hamas or Israeli interests at the top of the pyramid that would help wouldn't it?

I was able to see the original article but only the abstract of the study. I agree with the conclusion, though, based on the fact that it's a real study and that it's an obvious response: "Greater understanding and community-led care relating to detransition/retransition from an LGBTQ2S+-affirming lens can help to mitigate minority stressors and distress associated with these experiences." People should be supportive and of course detransitions need equal support.

Would you think it's a good idea to post a complaint thread about an individual who called someone the n-word? I wouldn't think so.

It's not. A doctor or group of doctors, or institution is publicly accountable. A bunch of individuals are not. Coming on here to cast aspersions against an unorganized group is only a feel-good measure.

I'm sure that exists but neither here nor there.

So it seems 😯 Well that's ridiculous. No one should pretend detransitioning doesn't exist.

The original article is paywalled so it's hard to tell what is being asserted. Why would anyone care if someone detransitions? Never heard of that. I've heard of gay people coming out bi and being afraid of reactions, but they were welcomed too, in the end. If someone has a supporting article that's readable that would be great. Thanks.

I'm not as interested in the protests, which are organized by interest groups who have their own goals. Basically, they just want to maximize outcomes in their favour. I'm more interested in the true centrist zeitgeist. Or liberals even. They are very quiet on this, and my assumption is it's because: - they are cautiously optimistic - they are pessimistic Or - they are hoping the US administration doesn't secure a political win with this agreement I really hope it's not the last one, but it may well be.

Qatar is so rich that they give away JETS 😯

Here's a tip for those of you who discuss topics where your partner just states their opinion over and over with no rationale: don't. They're not proceeding to a conclusion from a set of facts and principles. So it's the equivalent of a three year old telling you their favourite ice cream flavour. There's no debate. Find better use of your time. Discuss things with others.

1. I said no such thing. 2. Look at the cites for the evidence. 3. Another uncited claim. .... Look, this discussion isn't going forward. You're trying to step around what I actually said, or misreading me. Then you just state opinions based on your feelings. That's not the basis for a productive discussion.

You say it's complete nonsense, but then you start talking about something else entirely. I didn't say anything about Christian persecution. I was responding to your uncited claim. If you want to continue, back up a step and either acknowledge your point was inaccurate, and then clarify it. Or explain why my cite is inaccurate.

1. You toss out opinions without basis. Majorities of Muslim nations believe in Democracy. 2. With good reason. Both Muslims and Jews are targeted in this country. Posters openly submit opinions that Muslims are different from other humans on here, corruptible by holy books where others are not.

1. It seems like a mistake to try to dissect the book to determine how much of it is about this or that. And again, it assumes a magic number of some kind. 2. I'm pretty sure there are. Let me Google... yes here it is: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus 20%3A13&version=NIV 13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. 3. Googled again: https://www.positive.news/society/meet-the-gay-imam-changing-attitudes-from-within/ Didn't read beyond the headline There's more apparently. 4. It's your argument, which is that Islam is intolerant and that's fair but my point is it's only a few years ahead of us in some respects. 5. To some degree it has and it will, I believe. The more open economies that are in Muslim countries are moving towards more progress than say Afghanistan. 6. They are mostly behind the West socially, yes. That said, there are aspects of religion that provide for better life than atheism but I suppose that's another thread. 7. How are they almost all poorer as well ? 8. I'm glad you said economically. We only got Women's suffrage about 100 years ago so that's an example. There are lots of ways to compare, though. I don't know if the number of years ahead could ever be agreed on. 9. Ok but it's not as simple as a country making a decision ... there are a lot of factors involved and simplifying it only serves to make us feel smug IMO. You agree that economics is a factor, I think that's the point at which we should agree to disagree. 10. No, I don't want to live in China but they were never governed by Islam, and they are making progress. These are some points that highlight the importance of economics in the big picture. -------------------- I'm not going to argue that Islamic countries are progressive but Muslims aren't "evil" or fundamentally different from other human beings. They're capable of being progressive and living in a non-religious Western country and they lose their religion at much the same rate as others.

1. Well, I was addressing your "junk comes from China" assertion. You're right they're assembled there, and parts come from Taiwan and all over. I wouldn't have assumed you were saying "junk comes from China but not at all from Vietnam, Taiwan...". The 'poorly made crap' you speak of comes from all those places too, as does well-made stuff. The main point being "we gave away our wealth"..> As I pointed out, WE didn't. Investors won big. 2. Agreed. I have only used one when provided by my work. 3. Well the two parts of this contradict each other. If it was a "bad" decision then those jobs would have come back. The folks who made the decision got cheaper labour, therefore... a "good" decision from their POV. 4. We all know this. 5. Why is it hypocritical ? It's a response to wealth being distributed to the top beneficiaries of these policies. I don't see hypocrisy in that.

I always found that to be a bad argument, after all iPhones come from China along with millions of other things. NeoLiberalism has been a great win for investors.

1. Well let's hear you talking about my points then 2. Okay, here we go... First points: What is with this number? 2/3? Is it magical? So if the Holy Bible has one book that instructs you to kill homosexuals then that's insignificant? I would say reasonable people can follow a religion and reject true fundamentalism. 3. None of this speaks against my point though. People can be progressive and reasonable, and follow some of the holy books. That goes for every religion. 4. And yet modern Muslims reinterpret it all the time. Also, plenty of barbaric practices happened in Christendom after the Reformation. And the Reformation itself involved wars and persecution and killing of infidels 5. The good religion is progressive capitalism in free societies. All religions succumb to the force of that one. That includes Christianity, which bows to a religion that allows me to buy cannabis, pornography and clothing woven of two kinds of material on Sunday. 6. Yes, they're regressive backwaters who are behind the times. Some cultures have to be, after all. Just because we're 20, 50, 100 years ahead doesn't mean we should Pat ourselves on the back about how great we are. Even though it's a better way. 7. I'd say so. Obviously I believe our way is better, but how we came to it is a pretty complex path. Real Christians try not to believe they're better than others. 8. I know enough about that stuff. 50 years ago We would be saying this about China too, except they're not religious so we'd have to find some other reason why they're inferior to us. Some other things in the Bible: welcome to stranger as yourself, love others as you would love yourself...

Assuming that your numbers are correct, and every single of those people makes a visit... there are 36 million US hospital admissions a year. So that's 0.1%. Not impactful.

If only they wanted that for the white government too...

No cite. 30%polled say too much is spent https://angusreid.org/indigenous-status-culture/ I have to say I would guess a lot more than half would be more than 60%, which is about twice what the actual number is according to Angus Reid.

That's the bottom line on ALL public matters. "Common sense" isn't worth a toss on such matters and yet you have people in positions of authority knowingly bringing it in to muddy things and push their own viewpoints. Of course it was always so. But it seems worse lately. Thanks for your thoughtful post.

That's wise. The point is also being made that people would sacrifice standards to reach targets, but I'm not sure that that's true. It's heartening to read the odd post that considers different points of view openly and objectively. Thank you.

1. Okay but you're being selective about which mindset to adopt based on how it benefits one side. 2. You seem to be challenging me here to do what you're doing. I'm not going to tell you how to feel, no. Again, all we're doing is setting up an opportunity to pass an Olive Branch between peoples. One of said peoples, they had all the power and children suffered. Setting up a day to talk about it, for those of us who care, doesn't seem like much to ask. For some reason, a minority resents the fact that their moral stance is not widely held so they lash out. That's how I see it.

I have only seen the latter, and probably about 50 years ago. But I do remember it being hilarious.